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ZE419, a Sea King HAS5 that (temporarily) forgot how to fly


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On 11/08/2017 at 9:11 AM, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

Following up on my post re the "yellow stripe", here are a couple of pics:

 

1. A close-up of a SAR Mk 5 with SACRU fitted.  You can't see the yellow stripe, but you can see the pulley at the bottom of it, and the 4 thin wires running to the arms of the SACRU.

36328434222_bc7478fdaf_b.jpg

 

2.  A Junglie cab (from our own BM walk round section); here you can see the wire running down the stripe.

36450567726_7f7c2d8a6d_c.jpg

 

 

Hope that helps.

 

Crisp

 

Crisp.... a very faint recollection is that the Sacru was raised and lowered on asw cabs via a pulley system that ran up via and inside the sonar well. The sacru was fitted with the sonar body left in place as it was a complete pigs ear of a job to remove.

I do recall lowering the sacru via this pulley and it was a simple rope clamped via a metal toothed cleat next to the stbd side of of the interior sonar gear.

Obviously couldn't be done in this manner on dedicated SAR or junglie cabs cos .... eh, no hole in the floor 😉😊👍

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Congratulations on reaching 100 pages of this build!

 

 

Secondly, with all of these cables and lines on the outside of the fuselage (sea anchor, SACRU suspender belt, weapon release kit, etc, etc) it is taking on the appearance of a puppet show! I wonder how many times things got tangled?

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I knew I should have consulted @MarkdipXV711; after all, as a pilot one had a Chap to do this sort of manual labour... and he was that Chap.  

 

Joking aside, I'm not surprised to learn that the "yellow stripe" wasn't used on ASW cabs; as I was describing it I realised that I could not recall ever seeing it rigged during a pre-flight walkround, but decided that must be because we so rarely flew with the SACRU (yes, it's Semi-Automatic Cargo Release Unit, @71chally - thanks, Bill).  [Edit: for the avoidance of doubt, the way I described the "yellow stripe" was correct - it's just that it seems that ASW cabs didn't use it much, doubtless because rigging it was a faff.]

 

@hairystick... "Puppet show"?  Speak softly, for you're treading upon the Queen of the Skies here!  All helicopters are Swiss Army Knives to some extent.  A few (Apache, Bag) are specialist, but most are capable of doing a huge range of jobs, most of which aren't terribly sexy; you wouldn't catch a jet pilot load-lifting tons of spuds or nipping ashore for the mail (though they'd he sure to moan when they didn't get any...).  And being capable of doing many things without extensive maintenance work to re-role the aircraft means being festooned with gadgets, gizmos, johnsons and scrinsons... and of course they don't need to be smooth & aero-dynamic because parasite drag is pretty much irrelevant anywhere on a helo away from the rotors.  But no, they never became tangled; despite appearances and banter, we did know roughly what we were doing...

 

Actually, that's been a huge part of what I'm doing in this build; to my eyes, after flying them for 1,200 hours or so (my logbook is almost exactly 50:50 Sea King:Lynx), Sea Kings just don't look right when smooth and un-festooned, but that's how most models depict them.  Hence the fact that about 85 of these 100 pages are taken up with adding assorted lumps, bumps, vents, aerials, pipes, wires and rivets.  And more to come...

 

@Fritag - bat bashfully raised.  The odd inside edge for 4, but they all count.  Fresh guard, please, umpire.

Edited by Ex-FAAWAFU
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'They' never make them untidy enough, even when they enter them in competitions

 

You don't do that stuff, from this build we're getting all the warts too.   👍

 

I can't abide a tidy jellochopter, taint natural

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I thought it might be worth bringing you up to date with what's been happening in Sea King land while all this tractor stuff has been going on.

 

I am a devotee of the so-called "oil dot" technique of adding subtle differences to otherwise bland expanses of the same colour; I also use it as part of my weathering regime.  The technique is much used in AFV modelling, I understand (not having built an AFV of any kind since I was approximately 11); I certainly nicked it from watching what a friend has achieved on assorted Tigers and Panthers.  

 

The good news about this technique is that you can keep on adding layers until you are satisfied with the overall effect - this means "less is more" when it comes to initial application; as with so many techniques, you can always add more, but it is much harder to take stuff away once it's dry.  The bad news, of course, is that oils take a L-O-N-G time to dry, so you have to be pretty patient.

 

It is also not very easy to photograph; iPhone pics tend to even out subtle differences, I find, which means that you might wonder from the following photos why I am bothering.  Trust me; 1. I haven't anything like finished yet and 2. the aircraft already looks much better in real life.

 

Anyway; here is the starting point of today.  You may or may not be able to tell that the section forward of the stub-wing has already had one preliminary layer of oil dotting, as has the area behind the exhaust.  The area abaft the stub-wing has not been touched yet, nor has the ECU door; even setting aside the loss of gloss (and you DEFINITELY need to gloss coat your model before doing this!), you can probably also see that the rivets are much more prominent in the un-treated areas.  [I would say too prominent - and part of the reason for doing this is to tone down the rivets without covering them altogether.  It will probably take several goes before I get this to where I want it, but as I say you can keep on adding layers as often as you like].

35799074073_e588204d47_c.jpg

 

Here is a close-up of the section behind the stub-wing, with the oil dots applied.  It looks here as though the dots are magenta, white, blue & black - but in fact some of the "black" dots are in fact Dark Blue, Burnt Umber or Payne's Grey.  You can use pretty much any colour, though understanding colour wheels helps.

35799073623_fed5f96d1d_c.jpg

 

Incidentally, as with any oil paints, I start this process by putting dabs of the paint onto a piece of gash cardboard and leaving it for several hours; this draws out the excess linseed oil, which makes the paint better for modelling purposes. 

 

Once the dots are in place, you then take a broad, flat brush and just slightly dampen it with white spirit (I use Winsor & Newton "Sansodor", which is far less smelly).  It is really easy to get too much spirit onto the brush - that won't do any harm, but will simply over-dilute the oil paint, which means it will either coalesce into one single colour (acting as a filter, but not adding the variation), or simply end up being removed altogether; not a disaster, but rather a waste of time!  This happened to me a lot when I first started doing this.  You need a tiny amount of spirit; I typically dip the brush in, and then rest it on a piece of kitchen roll for a second or two - you still have easily enough loaded onto the brush after that.  In the end it comes down to trial and error.

 

You then use the brush to work the dots, using a series of light strokes in the same direction (I usually go up & down, but there is no rule about this).  At this stage it is a bit of an act of faith; you think you have wrecked your lovely model the first time, panic and wash everything away.  But eventually you realise that, provided you keep on unloading the brush on your kitchen roll, you gradually end up with very subtle changes in shade in the original paintwork.  If you overdo it or make a mistake, you can simply take all the [oil] paint off and start again.

35799071993_4b00fbeb9e_c.jpg

 

You are going to have to trust me a bit here, because this shot doesn't really appear to show much.  You might just be able to make out some diagonal oil smears running top right to bottom left across the prominent central double row of rivets that runs up from the SACRU foot.  I can see it, but only because I know exactly where I am supposed to be looking.  Anyway, this is pretty much done - the full subtlety will not really reveal itself for a couple of days, because it takes that long for the paint to dry completely.

35799070993_a19cde2ef6_c.jpg

 

The final shot is an attempt at an After photo to compare with the Before pic (which I will repeat to save you scrolling up and down like a madman).  Here you can at least see - I hope - that the section behind the stub-wing has already toned down quite a bit - compare the fuselage wall with the (as yet un-touched) sponson, for instance.  What you can't really tell from this is the variations in colour.

35799074073_e588204d47_c.jpg

36211915420_5811b9eec8_c.jpg

 

There is still a lot more of this to do (including adding further layers on top of the stuff already done), but it takes a long time because of the drying thing.  

 

Luckily I have plenty to get on with, what with making weapon stations, preparing for the wiring etc.  

 

Sorry if this isn't very obviously informative, but I tried.  I love iPhones, but for subtle stuff their software compensates too well for variations in light (especially in gloomy conditions); great for happy snaps, but less so here.

 

I just didn't want you to think that the Sea King itself had somehow not been touched for ages.  

 

More soon

 

Crisp

Edited by Ex-FAAWAFU
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Hi Crisp,

very interesting technique! I believe it's time consuming, but after all those rivets...your patience has already been proved!

I had started a comment on the tractor, but something went wrong with the signal and I just realized I never sent it!

Anyway I like very much the result you're getting on both!

I'll keep watching!!!

Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler

...ooops a daisy!!!...what's a spoiler???:rage:

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, Fritag said:

100 not out :worthy:- with hardly a mistimed shot or gloved chance and all in impeccable style........

Why when I read that did I do so in a Henry Blofeld voice in my brain? 

Superb work in the tractor by the way.

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13 hours ago, Fritag said:

100 not out :worthy:- with hardly a mistimed shot or gloved chance and all in impeccable style........

Unlike myself who will probably be out TBW (tentacles before wicket) on my threads!

 

I have to disagree about the post not being very informative Crisp. Even a colour blind alien such as myself got the point. So much so that even as a confirmed non-weatherer, I am tempted to have bash.

 

Martian

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1 hour ago, Martian Hale said:

Unlike myself who will probably be out TBW (tentacles before wicket) on my threads!

 

I have to disagree about the post not being very informative Crisp. Even a colour blind alien such as myself got the point. So much so that even as a confirmed non-weatherer, I am tempted to have bash.

 

Martian

Yes me too and these kind of weathering techniques scare the pants off me

But since Steve Fritag reccomended it too it has to be on the cards

Edited by perdu
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I've seen this "oil dot" technique mentioned before, but his is the first time I've seen it in action. Very effective method, I might give it a go if I build something larger than 1/72..

 

Erm, should one be able to see through from the starboard to port exhaust holes? is something missing or have I missed something?

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16 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

 

I just didn't want you to think that the Sea King itself had somehow not been touched for ages.  

Don't worry. Some of us have been known to sneak back and have a look at it while your not around.:lol:

 

You've sold me completely on the pointillist approach to adding variation in surface colour.:nodding:

Quote

 

Very effective to my eye already - largely due to the inherent subtleties of the process, and now guaranteed an airing in my next.

 

So excited was I by your results here Crisp that  I see I've gratuitously inserted a quote box that refuses to delete....

 

Thanks for documenting the process.

Tony

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3 hours ago, Bigdave22014 said:

Erm, should one be able to see through from the starboard to port exhaust holes? is something missing or have I missed something?

Look back a few pages (pre-tractor) & you'll find a section where I built some battered yellow exhaust blanks.  They sit happily in a strong, safe location - alongside the tail pylon / tail rotor / gust lock.  I won't actually fit them until pretty late in the build; PE handles etc are a bit prone to damage when you're working close by.

 

Thanks, all, for enthusiastic response to oil dot.  If you really want to learn more, Abteilung 502 have produced an excellent book called "Mastering Oils".  The examples are all AFV models, but this technique & several others are very well explained - including an excellent section on colour theory; chosing appropriate colours for your dots is not as obvious as it might seem (sone of you might, for instance, have wondered about the magenta on a dark blue Sea King).  Recommended.

Edited by Ex-FAAWAFU
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25 minutes ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

It was always officially called a SACRU, Colin - though I accept that a two-syllable word probably was beyond the scope of many Junglies... 

Ha!

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More weapon carrier stuff.  As I think I have said before, I am using the FlightPath HAS6 conversion set, which was produced for the basic Hasegawa SH-3 kit, long before Hasegawa produced their AEW2a or "HAR5" boxings.  I have been able to leave the Sea Searcher radome, sponsons and other excellent FlightPath stuff in the box for future Sea Kings - but the weapon carriers (and winch - see earlier in the build) are superb, and worth the money on their own.  I actually have 2 FlightPath sets, acquired on the assumption that they were the only likely game in town for my planned builds (i.e. this 820 NAS HAS5 and a future 819 NAS HU5).  Since the SAR cab won't need any weapon carriers at all, this gives me 4 carriers for this build, which is what I need.

 

They were clearly designed to fit stations 1 & 2 (under the stub-wings), because of the shape of the white metal parts - especially the bits representing the brackets connecting the carrier to the fuselage.  Under the stub-wings, the fuselage is pretty slab sided, but further aft they are going to need adapting to fit the shape of the fuselage.  Here are a couple of pictures of the starboard aft carrier on the FAA Museum's HAS 5 - first seen from ahead, second from behind:

36466284892_de817eb6fa_b.jpg

36466284942_42a8162a03_b.jpg

 

Note the shape of the connecting brackets; some future work.

 

Before I get to that, however, I have been assembling the basic carriers; in the foreground you can see one I built (or rather mostly built) a while ago - that's destined for port fwd.  On the right you can see the white metal "core" that sits inside the PE exterior.

35826339693_251d1b8faa_c.jpg

 

And here the same view from above, this time showing the PE which I built this evening - even those two represent 4 PE parts each, with 4 more still to be added.... and that's before I touch the wiring!

36588680756_ca24e7e855_c.jpg

 

Finally, a shot of the start I have made in adapting the white metal section of the two aft stations; you can see that I have filed away a lot of the "bracket" section - my plan is then to add a new bracket made from laminated card carved to shape, with a brass pin drilled through it to stiffen it and attach the whole thing to the fuselage.  [Not very well explained, but I know where I am going with this... I think!]

35826340683_41fbb113e1_c.jpg

 

More soon

 

Crisp

Edited by Ex-FAAWAFU
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Very nice weathering Crisp. Not sure if I'll try it in 1:72 but certainly worth remembering. And those weapons carriers are starting to look pretty tasty too.......

 

Ian

Congrats on the century!

Edited by limeypilot
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Not much over the weekend, because I spent most of it with a glass in my hand at an epic family wedding knees-up.  I have managed a little today, though, to progress the weapon carriers a little bit more.  It's one of those bits of modelling that we all have at times - when you spend about an hour building a jig and lining things up precisely, and then the actual event takes about 5 seconds (shut up, Ced...).  

 

In this case, I have been building the first two (of four) of the racks that sit beneath the back end of the carrier - from memory this was designed to keep the arming wires in place in flight, end then to remove them neatly, including the all-important cover for the battery bay of the Stingray.  The battery of a torpedo needs water to function, but clearly you don't want to get water in it (say, from rain) when you are flying (and thus risk a weapon that arms itself rather than when you tell it to...), so it has a plug to prevent any ingress.  Then as part of the dropping sequence the battery port cover is removed; when it gets into the sea, water floods into the battery, it powers up and off she goes...  Anyway, if I remember correctly (and I wasn't an HWI), that was the purpose of that thingy at the bottom of the photo.

36579365111_44a94c4728_c.jpg

 

Flight Path represent this very nicely, but the only realistic way of giving it enough strength is some teeny-tiny soldering action.  Hence the building of a jig to hold it precisely aligned (notably at the correct height), then some of my trusty solder paint, and heat applied at the right moment.

 

I am happy to say that it worked:

36322635460_96d00d976c_b.jpg

36672091246_2660c9c479_c.jpg

 

[Upside down in that second picture, obviously.]

 

More soon

 

Crisp

 

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