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ZE419, a Sea King HAS5 that (temporarily) forgot how to fly


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Interview fine, thanks - though this one was fairly early stages; the big one is on Thursday lunchtime.

 

So, the structure that shall henceforth be called the AndyF117 Tribute Window...  can you even tell that it is multi-layered?

 

It's subtle, but yes, you can!  Forward window flush with frame, rear window inset by one window's thickness.

 

32192928654_6a9f153d14_b.jpg

 

Slight bend in frame there, but that's easily enough fixed.  Leaving it all to cure fully now - then there is some cleaning up to do (though since it is canopy glue it dries clear, so there might not be as much as I think once it's all dry).

 

No. More. Clever. Ideas. 

 

;-)

 

Crisp

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This is a hard crowd to please from what I see but you're well able for 'em.:lol:

 

Is there going to be a 1/48 Crisp punching out any of them windows?:whistle:

 

Addenda. Having seen your post below mine now seems coldly unsympathetic...

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Houston, we have a problem.  I need some advice from the BM Hive Mind.  If you were paying attention a while ago, when I fitted the windows (non-AndyF117 Tribute type, that is), the pane in the cargo door didn't attache properly at first and tried to dive inside the airframe.  At that stage you could still just about reach the inside of said window with a long pair of tweezers through a hole that existed at the time in the Dog Kennel. 

 

As part of preparing for primer and paint, I have been checking the masking, and a couple of them needed replacing - including the cargo door mask.

 

Ugh.

 

32996767406_518d19020b_b.jpg

 

Nasty glue marks on the inside, plus some stray sanding dust which also seems to be attached to the window.  

 

Thoughts?

 

I really don't want to just shrug and leave it - Andy's "ha'pth of tar" argument applies; having gone to all this effort, I'm b*ggered if I am going to present a shiny be-rivetted Sea King with a window featuring the sort of glue mark I used to make when I was about 6!

 

But there is no way to reach the inside of it - not without some pretty major surgery.  My present, half-formed plan is to prise it out of the airframe as it is, and replace it (I have at least 2 spare windows that are the right size & shape - thank you Hasegawa!).  Probably attaching a rod to the outside pretty firmly; masking tape panel, then rod glued to tape, so that I can manipulate it from outside.  Only once new window has cured with the glue do I remove the rod etc, and sand back to clarity; after all, I can sand the outside as much as I like.

 

Would that work, or do any of you chaps have a better idea?

 

Sod it!

 

C

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That sucks! As you say, it has to come out. I'd be tempted to drill it and pull it out just to be sure to doesn't fall inside. As to refitting, how snug a fit is it? Could you just attach some tape to the corners to hold it on place while gluing instead of attaching a rod? If not I don't see you have many other options

 

Ian

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Well it's out - actually came out relatively easily, to the extent that it is even re-usable (I had assumed I'd damage it beyond repair).  The other good news is that the marks are almost all Formula 560 Canopy Glue - I now remember applying that via the long tweezers in order to get it to stay in place, so this shouldn't be as surprising as it is.  It's amazing what your mind can elect to ignore completely if it feels like it!    That kind of glue comes off relatively easily with some careful tooth pick action.  I have since micromesh'd it to an acceptable sheen on the inside.  There is nothing to see in there, so it doesn't have to be mega crystal clear, optically perfect etc.; just looks clean and shiny.

 

The bad news is that it is (or at least was) a very snug fit - indeed I suspect the reason it came out in the first place was that I hadn't quite got it to engage properly with its fixing lugs, so the join wasn't very strong.  I have spare fuselage halves, remember, destined for future SAR and other builds, so at least I can experiment in a safe environment.  I think the way ahead will be to sand it a little to make the fit a bit less snug (so I stand a chance of "pulling" it to a place that is vaguely flush with the door), and then fill any gaps with canopy glue.  That's the only way I can think of giving myself enough leverage.

 

Ho hum.  Could be worse.  It's fixable, I am sure - just going to take a bit of patience and/or lateral thinking.  

 

I confess I did use some somewhat naughty words when I found it, though.

Edited by Ex-FAAWAFU
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Seeing as how you have more than one spare window, you could try this method I sometimes use. !.Remove the offending window and clean up opening. 2. Coat replacement with Klear and allow to cure. 3. attach replacement window from the outside with CA. 4. sand and polish to shape before re-coating outside with Klear.

 

Martian

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I will resist any considerations of offering commands to your esteemed self Crisp

 

I do not think you'll have much of a real problem following your dream, your way

 

You are finding out why I love, nay adore Formula 560 Canopy Glue

 

It seems to go out of its way to be really useful, almost like the Springer Spaniel puppy of adhesives

 

A sharp operator's learning curve but so willing to do what you want that it becomes irreplaceable

 

The slidey window, simply exemplary  "He did it my way...!"

 

I hope Thursday goes well

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cockpitglue

 

you know you could stick a little dab on a cocktail stick's end to use to hold the 'glass' in place, then peel it orf when you finish the task'''

 

E D I T  F I R S T before first post

forget it, sorry I spoke but I do that any time I need to pull a 'piece' out to get it flush

 

ten minutes later it becomes peel-off-able leaving no trace

 

Anyway

 

Forget it, I'm not interfering, whatever is the world coming to...

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Is your radome securely fitted? Could you remove it and cut a hole where it sits that is big enough to get the window through on the end of a stick. You can then put pressure on it from behind to secure it. Once secure you have a bit of access to get a cotton bud behind it to clean it. Once complete resecure the radome covering the hole.

 

Or take a mold of the door and make a resin replacement if you are that way inclined and have the facilities. And just replace the door.......note I made no inclination for you to open the door!

 

I did think of Krystal Klear but think that may not stretch far enough. 

 

Just a couple of suggestions, just hoping you can sort it.

 

Bob

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I confess that removing the entire door hadn't occurred to me, and it is tempting... but for now at least I am going along Martin's route.  Door removal Plan B.  Radome removal, nowhere (sorry, Bob!)

 

Open doors are for the next, 819 SAR, iteration of this aircraft.  Not now, Cato

Edited by Ex-FAAWAFU
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There won't be much today, because I must do some proper prep for this interview tomorrow - but even on busy days I like to do a little if poss.

 

First up, I have added the connectors for the rescue hoist (a.k.a. "winch"); the hoist itself will be the lovely FlightPath offering, which is a complex beast of PE and white metal which completely knocks spots off the over-simplified Hasegawa job.  It will not, however, be added until after painting - after all, it's a different colour (indeed, it's about the only thing that is NOT RAF BG!) and the holes for the supports are already there, and the chances of knocking it off and/or damaging it are pretty much 100%.

32667577170_69224b7674_b.jpg

 

You will also note that the window is not there - see above!

 

The other thing is rather harder to see, and might need a bit more work.  Someone pointed out above that the door looks far too moulded on.  I appreciate that this was a tissue-thin disguise at attempting to persuade me to cut it off and make it fully functional, but there is a grain of truth in the pathetic ruse.  To say that the Sea King rear door is not exactly hermetically sealed would be something of an understatement, so visible gaps are realistic.

 

i have therefore done a little scoring with my trusty (and utterly superb) Mr. Scriber Wedge.

32667576740_6814f41edf_b.jpg

 

Same at the front.  Needs a bit of cleaning up, but I think you get the general gist.

 

More soon

 

Crisp

 

 

Edited by Ex-FAAWAFU
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Remarkable

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So I did

 

 

;)

 

The gappy door?

 

Was it built at Longbridge or did Westlands call on BMC for old knackered used personnel to fill vacancies

 

Typical

 

:)

Edited by perdu
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41 minutes ago, perdu said:

The gappy door?

 

Was it built at Longbridge or did Westlands call on BMC for old knackered used personnel to fill vacancies

 

Typical

 

It may not have started gappy, but few aircraft are Jack-proof, and these had Grubbers and Aircrewmen hoofing their way in and out many times a day - not to mention every single piece of cargo, sonobuoy and Observer's bag rat being lifted over the threshold.  Over time they become quite loose.  They weren't designed to be air-tight; there wasn't exactly much call for pressurisation in ASW at 200' and below.

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31 minutes ago, andyf117 said:

 

Please don't neglect those top and bottom rear corners - but then should that trailing edge 'frame' even be present?

 

I think you're right Andy, perhaps you better not mention it though. Doh too late! :doh:

A quick Google turned this one up:

Des Kilfeather's Flickr page

Crisp, you might have to adopt this pose :lalala:

 

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3 hours ago, perdu said:

Remarkable

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So I did

 

 

;)

 

The gappy door?

 

Was it built at Longbridge or did Westlands call on BMC for old knackered used personnel to fill vacancies

 

Typical

 

:)

 

What are you trying to say ?......:worry:......You might be surprised to know the guys in my time on the SK and other lines there were Just about all Time served Apprentices from either ex forces, (mostly RN ) Fleetlands,  BAe (BAC, Hawker Siddeley etc.) the majority were Westlands.:D Built to Sikosky's original Blue Prints 1955/56

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3 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

 

It may not have started gappy, but few aircraft are Jack-proof, and these had Grubbers and Aircrewmen hoofing their way in and out many times a day - not to mention every single piece of cargo, sonobuoy and Observer's bag rat being lifted over the threshold.  Over time they become quite loose.  They weren't designed to be air-tight; there wasn't exactly much call for pressurisation in ASW at 200' and below.

 

It works along the principle of the Andyf117 window, it fits where it touches and is designed to stop the aircrewman falling out the back when he is catching 40 winks, although when it was first designed I think Aircrewmen were a bit lighter (:D). It hangs off two runners at the top and the bottom is (usually!) held in a channel. Another simple design made to infuriate grubbers unfortunate enough to have to fit the bu66er back on!

 

I think the :lalala: position is entirely appropriate otherwise you will be scratch building the entire internalness

 

Smashing work though!

 

Bob

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I am not sure it's meant to be a frame, as such; until now I have always assumed it's just a slightly iffy representation of the rear part of the door, like this:

32673298540_3d7be9030f_b.jpg

 

Actually, that ought to be simple enough to make better.  

 

No, it's not going to be open. 

 

I became somewhat wary of opening the door in flight - as Bob says, it hangs off two runners at the top and runs in a channel at the bottom; the Lynx had an essentially identical design, and opening the door in flight was a perfectly normal thing to do (within a certain flight envelope)... right up to 1989 when a cab did it flying into Mombasa from HMS Brilliant, the door came out of the bottom channel and flapped up into the rotor disk, removing a large part of it and giving the aircraft the aerodynamic qualities of a brick.  They had 9 people on board (which is a hell of a lot in a Lynx, especially in the tropics), and alas they all died, horribly.  Lynx ops were modified significantly as a result, but rather surprisingly Sea Kings were unaffected.  They must have decided that there were crucial differences between the designs.

 

The Mombers crash happened during my Lynx conversion; I remember how shocked everyone was about it.

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This is why it is worth all that effort!

 

32900026052_12003d3f41_b.jpg

 

Still a couple of tiny touch-ups to do, but this side is essentially finished on the rivet front, and at long last it is really starting to look like it always has in my mind's eye.

 

Happy!

 

Crisp

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It does look good, doesn't it?  Thus far all you have seen are close-ups, but it looks even better a reasonable viewing distance, where the rivets don't look anything like as stark:

33014911526_32a0109804_b.jpg

 

Windows drying after a bath of Clear underneath, by the way.

Edited by Ex-FAAWAFU
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