Pete in Lincs Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Nice quilting riveting. I remember seeing those chrome cups mounted on wooden stands as pen holders for presentation to people leaving. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 The difference between those two iterations is just extraordinary. 45 minutes ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said: Pleasurable though banter about the Hitch-Hikers' Guide... ...that's what this Herculean effort reminds me of: Slartibartfast at work upon his fjords! 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted November 3, 2016 Author Share Posted November 3, 2016 Do you consider that the Sea King has a "sort of Baroque feeling"? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 If that is the case then the Baroque age had way too many rivets in it! Martian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntPhillips Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Crisp, enquiring minds need to know, just how many sheets of rivets has the Sea King devoured so far? I can't get over just how much better the fuselage looks after the treatment. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted November 3, 2016 Author Share Posted November 3, 2016 (edited) Thus far it has eaten all of my original sample page (which had both doubles & singles on it, so is essentialiy the same as 2 modern sets (which are sold separately), and has started to make inroads into a second set of doubles (including a little section of triples, also on that page) & a second set of singles. I am just over half way (though belly and details like sponsons etc will add more than I think). I estimate that you could do a whole Sea King with 3 sets of doubles and 4 of singles (which would leave a few left over) - but when I ordered the modern sets I bought lots of singles and not many doubles... so a fresh order might be imminent! Ask me again when I have finished one complete aircraft - bearing in mind that eventualiy I will do three of them... Edited November 3, 2016 by Ex-FAAWAFU 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hairystick Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 I'm totally convinced of your forethought on the riveting now Crisp. That is looking magnificent indeed! I am left perplexed about how easy joining the two halves will be, with the rivets already aboard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 hmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 9 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said: I am working out how to do the various lumps & bumps on the airframe I was going to suggest scalehardware.com as they had some really useful stuff which you may have found handy, but a quick check on their website looks as if their account has been suspended (which sucks a little as I have used a lot of their stuff on the train and on the few aircraft I've built - and now I need some more!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted November 4, 2016 Author Share Posted November 4, 2016 8 hours ago, hairystick said: I'm totally convinced of your forethought on the riveting now Crisp. That is looking magnificent indeed! I am left perplexed about how easy joining the two halves will be, with the rivets already aboard? Read a post a few back; I have deliberately left the join areas blank for now. The rest depends on how well I am measuring. The other thing to bear in mind is that these rivets are presently the most obvious they will ever be; silver-grey against a white background. In due course they will be no colour at all underneath a blue-grey background. If a couple of rivet rows are slightly misaligned across the join under the tail, who is actually going to see it? I already know where there are minor mistakes, but I bet you no-one else has noticed them - so how much less will they be apparent once we reach the end colour? This is all for an effect which I think is a key characteristic of the sea King, namely what Fritag describes as "quilted". If a couple of stitches in the quilt aren't quite in the precise right place, you're going to have to be a serious rivet-counter to even notice, let alone care much. After all, my experience from photographing two airframes at the Museum has taught me that there are differences from airframe to airframe... 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted November 4, 2016 Author Share Posted November 4, 2016 7 hours ago, hendie said: I was going to suggest scalehardware.com as they had some really useful stuff which you may have found handy, but a quick check on their website looks as if their account has been suspended (which sucks a little as I have used a lot of their stuff on the train and on the few aircraft I've built - and now I need some more!) It was a rhetorical question, thanks, mate! I think I know how I plan to do most of the lumps & bumps, and the more complex / prominent ones are covered by Flightpath and/or Eduard. I was thinking more about things like the wiring supports, bonding points, etc. Tiny, tiny things in this scale so (as point above) more about how to get an effect that "looks right" than one which is scale accurate. Surely no-one has yet been crazy enough to produce 1/48 butterfly nuts. {I am going to regret saying that, I know!] 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 I dunno Crisp, you might even find there are I could have used some on the pesky Italian bomb boat I built.. So keep those enquiring mind type questions a'coming perlease 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted November 4, 2016 Author Share Posted November 4, 2016 (edited) I am now almost certainly going to contradict myself (but hey, this is my build!). I think the essential gist of my previous post about strict accuracy of rows of rivets underneath the tail is that there is a limit to how far we need to take the mania for complete accuracy. [I am a strong believer in this, however; many of the tiny detail parts of a model "look wrong" if they are 100% to scale; the art is to get them looking right even though in real life they'd be much too big [or, sometimes, small]). So guess who has now been doing silly tiny things in the interests of accuracy? Here is a real sidewall (i.e. facing across the cockpit) of a Broom Cupboard (albeit of a black cockpit SAR cab): Here is my equivalent, still awaiting its jump seat but otherwise basically complete. Hard to photograph (because even the biggest of these transfers is c.1mm across), but I have added 3 things to the Broom Cupboard wall. 1. A placard - the real one (I think) says something about the Emergency Undercarriage bottle pressure gauge which is round the corner. All 3 of these transfers are Airscale (of course!). This one actually says something about flap limiting speeds, or similar - but it busies up the view, which is the point. I might even have fitted it upside down. Sue me. 2. The AP sitting in its wee pouch now has a title block down its spine. 3. However, the thing that has pleased me out of all proportion is the black & yellow cross-hatching on the "Oxo Cube", which is that little black cube set at an angle at the bottom left of the wall (it will be immediately above the jump seat, once fitted). The Oxo Cube (so called because it is a c.¾" cube which looks vaguely like an old-fashioned Oxo cube) is part of the emergency undercarriage system. Because it is an emergency system, it is painted black and yellow. And thanks to Airscale, mine is too now. This pleases me inordinately! The pilots have 3 ways of putting the undercarriage down. - The normal lever (by the LH pilot's right knee) does it under hydraulic power in the standard way. - If that fails for any reason (probably because of a catastrophic leak of hydraulic oil from the Utility system), there is another lever (also close to the LH pilot's right leg, but further back) which fires a 3,000 psi compressed air shot into the hydraulics, thus operating the jacks. The pressure of this bottle is monitored by the gauge on the back wall of the broom cupboard (thanks to Moaning Dolphin for reminding me of that). - If that fails as well you are really having a bad day, so you revert to the Oxo Cube. If you pull that (and it is at that odd angle to enable the RH pilot to reach round and feel it with his left hand - Sikorsky thought of everything!), it bypasses the hydraulics entirely, allowing the undercarriage to fall under gravity. You then hover the aircraft close to the ground / deck to allow some intrepid Grubber to insert a ground locking pin into each leg, because falling under gravity is not enough to lock the wheels down. The Oxo cube is a one-off system; if that too fails, you're landing on the aircraft belly - which is a complicated process practiced at almost every Admiral's inspection (equivalent of RAF TACEVAL), involving lot of matresses from the mess - I am not making this up - lashed down under a cargo net. [As an aside - and I had forgotten this until I started talking Sea King undercarriage - when we came back to Ark in 014 after our ditching and un-ditching, we were asked to do this; our U/C was wire locked down for that sortie because of a problem with the hydraulics , and the engineers were concerned that we might have damaged it in getting off the sea. We didn't hover while ground lock pins were being inserted, but we did do a low slow pass along the deck at about 10', so the squadron Air Engineering Officer could have a quick look. He got a face full of sea water for his pains, and we landed normally!] Final aside; I have no idea what that grey box is between the AP and the First Aid kit in the photo of the real cab. It might be something to do with the Centricep filter system, maybe? Whatever it is, it wasn't there in my day, so out ain't being added to my Sea King model! More later Crisp Edited November 4, 2016 by Ex-FAAWAFU 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 More cracking detail work Crisp, & the ongoing technical info & stories of the equipment in use make this much more than just a build thread of a superb model Sea King! Wonderful stuff! Keith 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 It is perfectly understandable you wanting to add as much detail as possible to your build. Having flown the things, you would notice the absence of many details that a lot of us would miss and you would most likely never be entirely happy with your model were you to leave those details out. Carry on with the excellent work Crisp. Martian 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moaning dolphin Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 Looking very nice. It is amazing how many details we take for granted and its only when you are doing something like this that you realize how much crap useful ancillary equipment is on the aircraft. Its good following this as it jogs a few memories! 1 hour ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said: I have no idea what that grey box is between the AP and the First Aid kit in the photo of the real cab No idea either, not seen it before. I don't think its a centrisep thing as we had them fitted for a few years before I went to different pastures and I don't recall seeing it. It must be a 21st century mod! Bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascoteer Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 16 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said: The 1991 Gulf Lynx crews say that it was fantastic - and since they walloped half of the Iraqi Navy with Sea Skua, I'd say they were right. 826 Sea Kings did quite a lot of their TI with / for them, which somewhat transformed Orange Crop's reputation in the ASW world. Aye, we had it on the Herc Tankers dahn sarf as well as, at least in the early days, the SF aircraft, especially those used on the Sarajevo Airlift (it was later replaced by AN/ALR-66(VC) and then SKY GUARDIAN). I always thought it was a bit labour intensive and not a patch on the YELLOWGATE fitted to the Grimrod. Having said that, all we ever seemed to pick up were fishing boats! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted November 4, 2016 Author Share Posted November 4, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ascoteer said: I always thought it was a bit labour intensive and not a patch on the YELLOWGATE fitted to the Grimrod. True - but I suspect Yellow Gate wouldn't fit into a Lynx (which is what OC was designed for - the Sea King fit was rather an afterthought, as far as I know). It was labour intensive, but then what are we paying Observers for, if not a bit of work every now and then. In the Bags the OC controller is in the back seat (which makes sense when they fly single pilot and in view of the role). We had it up front, and if nothing else it was superb in peacetime as a situational awareness / get me home / "where's Mum?" instant indicator. Type 1022, the CVS (& Type 42) long range air search radar, is very distinctive. Later on, flying from a Type 22, I came to love the fast aerial rotation rate of the Type 967/968; that has to be Mum! Saved my posterior on more than one occasion in poor visibility and short of fuel, returning to a group of ships and not entirely sure which was which. Edit: and speaking of Orange Crop, if you leave the aerials unattended overnight, they breed. Note also the first wiring support hole has been drilled. C Edited November 4, 2016 by Ex-FAAWAFU 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted November 4, 2016 Author Share Posted November 4, 2016 3 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said: The AP sitting in its wee pouch... For the avoidance of doubt (& conscious that there are BM-ers for whom English is not their first language) this "wee pouch" is nothing whatsoever to do with the pee tube. One is a method of disposing of bodily fluids (and the other a way of distributing crap) - NO - "wee" in this instance purely means small, not urine! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 (edited) I'm glad you mentioned it I fink I'm glad you did anyway. I wonder if we could talk Peter into Airscaling placards in proper modelling scale... Just thinking, like Edited November 4, 2016 by perdu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascoteer Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 1 hour ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said: True - but I suspect Yellow Gate wouldn't fit into a Lynx (which is what OC was designed for - the Sea King fit was rather an afterthought, as far as I know). It was labour intensive, but then what are we paying Observers for, if not a bit of work every now and then. Probably not as in the podded form fitted to the Nimbat's (and E3D's) wingtips but ISTR that it was developed from the F15 RWR. Certainly the threat indicator that we had on the flight deck came straight out of an F15. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted November 4, 2016 Author Share Posted November 4, 2016 (edited) Come to think of it, one of the "Gulf Mod" series that upgraded the Lynx pre-91 [& which eventually becme a sub-mark, the Lynx 3(GM)] was the carriage of a podded Yellow Veil jammer under the port weapon carrier. I assume this was a cousin of Ms Gate? Edit: Like this: Edit again, because apparently I linked to some photo which contained malware. Edited November 5, 2016 by Ex-FAAWAFU 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 Ere! all these orange & yellow bits? Aren't they still on the secret list? Crisp & Debs in the tower all weekend! Hah! Quote 17 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said: bearing in mind that eventualiy I will do three of them... You'll need more than specsavers by then! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted November 4, 2016 Author Share Posted November 4, 2016 1 hour ago, Pete in Lincs said: Ere! all these orange & yellow bits? Aren't they still on the secret list? Crisp & Debs in the tower all weekend! Hah! I think the Security Services can relax... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Rainbow_Codes#Yellow 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted November 4, 2016 Author Share Posted November 4, 2016 Driller Thriller; the wiring support stud holes are done for Station 3: And Station 1: 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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