Ex-FAAWAFU Posted October 1, 2016 Author Share Posted October 1, 2016 (edited) On 30/09/2016 at 11:16 AM, andyf117 said: Getting there, but think the barn door requires some attention in relation to width/positioning. Hopefully this photo illustrates what I mean: https://www.flickr.com/photos/74404033@N05/8648939870/sizes/o/ Also, not sure you need that curved line representing the centre 'divider' - perhaps a vertical one, close to the intakes? My quandary with this is that I don't have good reference shots from the side; some excellent nose-on, including your Bag, but none that really show the barn door clearly side-on, especially the rear of it. They're always slightly off-centre, so you see the anti-icing strikes etc clearly, but not the back. Early on a made decision that I'd only alter Caruana's drawings radically where I had clear evidence that they are wrong, and in this case I don't. The curved line is, I suspect, meant to denote the curve inwards toward the intakes... but who knows? Modern hi-res pics are of cabs with the Centrisep filters; if you (or anyone!) have a picture that really shows the shape of the rear of a Barn Door, and/or its relatively positioning vis-a-vis the ECU intakes, then I'd love to see it. But until then I'm not changing the drawings radically - not least because my intention with these has always been about rivet positioning, rather than making the definitive Sea King 5 drawing. Doing full-on accurate (Westland) Sea King drawings would certainly be a valuable exercise, but would take a lot of work and additional research, so is for another time? Edited October 1, 2016 by Ex-FAAWAFU Remedy auto-correct nonsense 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted October 1, 2016 Author Share Posted October 1, 2016 (edited) Despite the above, I have had one more go at it, and I think this is an improvement. It's my last go at it, anyway, unless someone can point me at a clear photo of the rear of the barn door from the side which is not taken from below, since that distorts the perspective. I do think, however, that my previous barn door (& therefore Capuana's) was not at a steep enough angle, and didn't go far enough down the overhead window. Still... take it or leave it! P.S. Ignore the horizontal line at the bottom; that's just a datum line which I forgot to turn off for this screen shot. Oh, and I have adjusted the pitot head / mast a bit; it was much too fat before. Edited October 1, 2016 by Ex-FAAWAFU 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyf117 Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 (edited) Content withdrawn - I will NOT be threatened by a moderator, simply because I queried the actions of another... Edited June 27, 2020 by andyf117 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 I must admit to not completely understanding what everyone is talking about, but this is the only photo I could find that shows anything resembling the back end of that big angled plate up top https://www.flickr.com/photos/45777493@N06/4585552701 oh, and this one showing the same view... https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7265/7082969251_244b5d11db_b.jpg or how about these two... https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5665/22387376350_5e75c4cc5c_b.jpg and https://farm1.staticflickr.com/692/22561750772_5484a3fa0d_b.jpg and you might want to looks at this guys site - it's not the same version as yours but I'm guessing you'll get some nice common detail http://nabe3saviation.web.fc2.com/waSKg.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Page 20. This build has got more preparatory drawings than the Sistine Chapel.... Engrossing stuff Crisp. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted October 1, 2016 Author Share Posted October 1, 2016 2 hours ago, hendie said: I must admit to not completely understanding what everyone is talking about, but this is the only photo I could find that shows anything resembling the back end of that big angled plate up top ...and https://farm1.staticflickr.com/692/22561750772_5484a3fa0d_b.jpg That last Flickr one is the closest I've seen to the right angle, and I reckon I am now close enough for Government work. Thanks. Nice detail of the Bag, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 As one who 'voted' for you to build a Sea King to follow your superlative Sea Vixen Crisp, I'm rather embarrassed to be 6 weeks & 20 pages late in finding your thread. Which I have to say is turning into another epic! Great tales, stunning pictures, brilliant drawings and already (after 20 pages?!) some excellent modelling! Super stuff indeed! Only problem is I've just pulled out of the stash and started building a Sword Harrier tub. I don't think that's going to get very far as I've just now pulled out a Revell Sea King...and have been searching for 1/72 HGW rivet sheets!! Keith PS apologies for all the 'likes'. I was trying to ration my use of them, but still managed to use my day's supply by page 18! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted October 2, 2016 Author Share Posted October 2, 2016 (edited) Thanks, Keith! Modelling, you say? Not much of that yet - though I plead the fact that the plastic is in Wiltshire and its owner in Notts... though only for 2 or 3 more days now, I am happy to say. Edited October 2, 2016 by Ex-FAAWAFU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted October 2, 2016 Author Share Posted October 2, 2016 (edited) Relatively little progress today - some of that real life stuff got in the way. None the less, I think the nose is now finished (the tinted overhead window is just me showing off my new-found Pixelmator chops!) The blurred line inside the Barn Door is an attempt to hint at the structure (which is I think what Richard Caruana was doing with his odd-looking curved line to the starter bullet). Not sure how well it works, but it's staying! Then some more moving forward on the tail. This takes a lot of checking and re-chacking, partly because every so often Westland / Sikorsky thrown in a crafty double row just for one panel (I guess because something is attached within, or it needs a bit more strength), but mostly because the rivet lines gradually diverge as the fuselage gets fatter. It took me ages to realise that this is why the Caruana drawings look wrong in this area; he has simply put on a grid (vertical and horizontal) and overlaid it, but in real life it is nothing like that. This will actually really help when it comes to laying down rows of HGW's finest, so I am taking the time to get it right. Anyway, this is where I have got to: More soon Crisp Edited October 2, 2016 by Ex-FAAWAFU 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 (edited) Truly excellent work gone into planning the rivet line marking Crisp, as important as the plasticking bit in most builds I do (Case in point, can you imagine how many rows of bl.....g rivets there are going ROUND the tail rotor upstand on a Wopse? Madness) You are ready to go (after finishing the drawings) for yours soon, it's going to be lovely Edited October 2, 2016 by perdu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Saw this and thought of you : http://hobbyterra.com/product/scriber-and-forms-for-making-of-nuts-type-1-mars-models-109.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Was thinking about these HGW rivets last night, & wondering how they will take to having decals placed over them, specifically are they robust enough to wiithstand any pressure being applied to bed in a decal on top of them, or will they get squashed? And are they defined enough to actually show through a decal? The more I look at all those rivets on your excellent drawings Crisp, the less enthusiasm I find I have to try & replicate them in 1/72! I don't like Revell's rivets as they look too big to me, so I might compromise and just replace their rivet lines with more in scale HGW rivets. Or I might not...! Keith 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Crisp - I just remembered that Micro Mark also make 3D rivets - 2 different scales of rivets I think they are not quite as obtrusive as Archers, and not as refined as the HGW - so they may be worth a punt ***Review here*** 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted October 3, 2016 Author Share Posted October 3, 2016 7 hours ago, keefr22 said: Was thinking about these HGW rivets last night, & wondering how they will take to having decals placed over them, specifically are they robust enough to wiithstand any pressure being applied to bed in a decal on top of them, or will they get squashed? And are they defined enough to actually show through a decal? The more I look at all those rivets on your excellent drawings Crisp, the less enthusiasm I find I have to try & replicate them in 1/72! I don't like Revell's rivets as they look too big to me, so I might compromise and just replace their rivet lines with more in scale HGW rivets. Or I might not...! Keith I am not a 1/72 man, but the thought of doing this at that scale is pretty daunting! Thanks for the tip, Hendie; I'll check them out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Yes, too daunting I believe! I actually think in 1/72 it will probably be a case of less is more, If one were to try & faithfully represent all those rivet lines it would overwhelm the model. That's my excuse anyway....! Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted October 3, 2016 Author Share Posted October 3, 2016 I agree; even at 1/48 there will be compromise. If anyone ever rolls out a 1/32 (or if I ever summon the courage to do that much scratch building), however... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted October 3, 2016 Author Share Posted October 3, 2016 (edited) More drawings, but also some good news; I am going home on Thursday, so there will finally be something to look at that involves plastic etc rather than computer screens. Anyway, I reckon I completed the "common" rivet lines today (i.e. the ones that are the same on both sides of the aircraft), so I tried a horizontal flip to see how it looked. Port (which you are used to seeing: ...and Starboard, which you are not: [Oops! The starboard view does have a nose, but clearly not in this screenshot!] Not a bad match - it looks as though my vertical line of rivets under the rear edge of the Sea Searcher is slightly too far forward (since it impinges slightly on the back edge of the cargo door). But that is easily fixed. Long hospital session tomorrow, so I will try to fix that and then get on with filling the gaps. Note, incidentally, the position of the aft weapons stations, which are starting to become clear because of the rivet lines around them. More tomorrow Crisp Edited October 4, 2016 by Ex-FAAWAFU 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngtiger1 Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Just saw this thread, and I must say it's.......totally awesome and I love the extra info that I don't normally see in most wip threads. I have couple off these hasegawa kits and they are very nice in this scale, but I agree with few guys here that we need on in 1/35 or 32. It will be huge but well worth the plastic Anyway, great work so far and a must follow along. So, keep up the good work 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted October 4, 2016 Author Share Posted October 4, 2016 (edited) Starboard side corrected as mentioned above and horizontal stabiliser added (though I forgot to turn the tail rotor layer back on before I took the screen shot) plus additional stuff like the fuel jettison pipe (by the tail wheel), sonobuoy chute (hole in the floor under the door), pressure fuelling point (under the door, eh Pete?!), and telebrief, AC & DC ground power sockets, SACRU foot release cable etc. added to the nose - plus the beginnings of a rescue hoist ("winch"). The correction was even easier than I thought; I hadn't moved the door far enough across, so the vertical rivet lines were in fact correct. Hoorah! It is my 14th (I know - a mere beginner!) wedding anniversary tomorrow and we are out all day, so more later in the week. Crisp Edited October 4, 2016 by Ex-FAAWAFU 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Happy anniversary for tomorrow. Get some sleep first though,,,, Quote 24 minutes ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said: pressure feeling point Ooer Missus! We know what you mean. See you later. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted October 5, 2016 Author Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) Today's installment, and some news. 1) I am now home. 2) the drawing continues to progress; cargo door and pressure fuelling / feeling point dealt with today. The scary thing is that even in places where it the two sides could be identical (e.g. aft of the door), they aren't. For instance, the double rivet line just behind the cargo door has moved since you last saw this - which can only mean there is a different panel join, since as far as I can make out the double rows are mostly where two sheets of metal join - plus the short ones which are for added strength. Weird, and it adds yet more poring over photos to get things right. More soon - including maybe even some of that plastic stuff! Crisp P.S. I hope you like my dinky little red fuel cap. Safety first, Gentlemen, please. Edited October 5, 2016 by Ex-FAAWAFU 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyf117 Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) Content withdrawn - I will NOT be threatened by a moderator, simply because I queried the actions of another... Edited June 27, 2020 by andyf117 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Those drawings are superb, the talent on this site is something else! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted October 6, 2016 Author Share Posted October 6, 2016 Starboard view now nearly complete: More later Crisp 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted October 6, 2016 Author Share Posted October 6, 2016 (edited) I suspect some of you have been beginning to forget that there is a model lurking in the background of all this drawing! Well today I actually did things with pieces of plastic and metal, for the first time in weeks. First up, as discussed at length a couple of pages ago, the No.3 generator bulge on the port side of the "dog kennel". I had already glued the genny provided by Hasegawa in place, only to discover that it is too long for an HAS5 in 1988. Luckily, I actually have three Hasegawa Sea Kings (2 Mk.5s and a bagger, but the parts are identical), so one of them received some surgery this afternoon. So HAS6 (a future 819NAS build) at the top, HAS5 at the bottom - the latter still needs a bit of clean-up, but you get the gist. Just for fun, a shot of all three Sea Kings: Top to bottom: HAS5 (the current build - I hadn't fitted the No3 Genny when I took this; HAS6 (a future build); and HU5 (also a future build, to be an 819NAS aircraft fully opened up - note the passenger door has been removed already. I have all three out at present because I think i am going to do the Mr Surfacer fill-a-thon for the rivets to all 3 now - it will be a pain but better than repeating all this in a few months' / years' time! The rivets can wait; just the smoothing of the fuselage to all three. I have also started doing some other chopping and PE fitting; here the fire fighting grille on the rear bottom of the port engine bay door, which has already been de-rivetted: The real thing is pretty deeply counter-sunk (one of my photos from VL a couple for weeks ago - this is the Mk6 masquerading as a hybrid HAR3 [starboard] / HU5 [port]: Finally, what one fuselage half looks like as of this evening: Front half has Hasegawa's rivet divots pretty much removed, and also the for'd window (not present in a Mk.5) filled in; rear half still to be finished. Blimey! Actual, you know, like, modelling. More soon Crisp Edited October 6, 2016 by Ex-FAAWAFU 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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