NATO exercises in 84/85 aircraft list needed F-104 search

[speedy]

Here's a very long shot. It was either 84 or 85 I was walking home from school and this F-104 flew over at a great rate of knots very low going over Salisbury Plain. I vividly remember that noise of the J79, it had 4 fuel tanks fitted but could not make out any markings as it was a brief glance and it had gone.

Now this was a rare sighting so I'm assuming it was part of a nato exercise in the uk, would anybody have an idea of the 104 that I may have seen.

Steve

[MikeR]

Italian maybe?

I remember about the same sort of time frame that two Italian F-104's flew too low Aberdeen (I saw them!), making it into the news. IIRC, the two pilots received a reprimand. LINK.

Mike.

[Giorgio N]

You can try and browse this site:

http://www.i-f-s.nl/exercises/

It lists the F-104s taking part in exercises over the years. The list is far from complete and most exercises listed were held in Central or Southern Europe (as were most NATO exercises during the cold war).

If the aircrafts participated in an airshow after the exercise, you could try at scramble.nl:

http://www.scramble.nl/showreports/united-kingdom

Searching through the database is going to be a massive job but may give some lead to potential candidates

[Gary West]

To be honest Steve youve little chance at nailing this one - back in the 60s 70s & 80s daily visits to UK bases by other Nato a/c was so normal, add to that how many bases were operational back then and its a tough call without a specific date. Mere speculation but Salisbury plain fell under a corridor for mil air types tranisitioning to South/mid Wales for a bit of flying in the" Valleys"

Upper Heyford was close by as was Brize, Lyneham & Yeovilton of course so maybe not an exercise.

[speedy]

Thanks everybody, I knew it was a great ask and I wish I could provide details but I can't. It was the hope of who was operating it in that timeframe and perhaps a major exercise going on etc.....

Back to the shed and get that time machine working.......

Steve.

Edited August 7, 2016 by speedy

[eng]

Italian maybe?

I remember about the same sort of time frame that two Italian F-104's flew too low Aberdeen (I saw them!), making it into the news. IIRC, the two pilots received a reprimand. LINK.

Mike.

Good one Mike, I remember this all to well as we still lived in Blackburn at the time. I went to school at Bankhead Academy, best school I ever went to, only because it was directly under the flightpath for finals into Aberdeen! And in the mid to late 80's when we still had an airforce the number of military jets (and Griffon powered multi engined prop jobs) that would practise diversion to Aberdeen was fantastic, a daily occurrence almost.

I vividly recall getting verbally berated by a very crabbit and irate PE teacher out on the playing fields during football when I stopped to watch my last sighting of an operational Lightning fly an approach before 'lighting the pipes' mid way down the runway and pulling vertical until you couldn't see it.....Epic. And I still dislike football

Eng

[Boman]

By 84-85, Italy, Turkey, Germany, Canada and Greece was still flying the F-104. Of these, Canada and Germany are closest geographically, although Italy can be a good bet too.

Checking the Scramble link above, both Alconbury and Bentwaters shows in 1985 were visited by MFG2 of the Germany Navy.

Edited August 8, 2016 by Boman

[RMP2]

By 84-85, Italy, Turkey, Germany, Canada and Greece was still flying the F-104. Of these, Canada and Germany are closest geographically, although Italy can be a good bet too.

Checking the Scramble link above, both Alconbury and Bentwaters shows in 1985 were visited by MFG2 of the Germany Navy.

But not Belgium or the Netherlands?

[Boman]

Belgium and the Netherlands like Norway and Denmark retired the F-104 with the introduction of the F-16 in the early 80's.

[MikeR]

Good one Mike, I remember this all to well as we still lived in Blackburn at the time. I went to school at Bankhead Academy, best school I ever went to, only because it was directly under the flightpath for finals into Aberdeen! And in the mid to late 80's when we still had an airforce the number of military jets (and Griffon powered multi engined prop jobs) that would practise diversion to Aberdeen was fantastic, a daily occurrence almost.

I vividly recall getting verbally berated by a very crabbit and irate PE teacher out on the playing fields during football when I stopped to watch my last sighting of an operational Lightning fly an approach before 'lighting the pipes' mid way down the runway and pulling vertical until you couldn't see it.....Epic. And I still dislike football

Eng

+1 on the footie!

I was at Springhill (now re-named Kingsford) Primary at the time. I'm pretty sure it was during the summer hols as I was at home when it happened. Nice clear day too. I remember hearing the noise then looking up and seeing these two pointy things tearing off on a shallow curve to the south west!

I've had a soft spot for the Starfighter ever since.

I'm not to far from Dyce's flightpath when aircraft are coming in from the south, and you do still get the odd military aircraft amongst the civvies, but very few. The most recent I remember seeing was an A400 on my way to work a few weeks ago.

Mike.

Edited August 8, 2016 by MikeR

[bootneck]

Just taking note of some salient points in your initial post Steve. First one is that you were walking home from school, thereby the timeline would be in school term time. This possibly rules out most of the Air Days, mainly as they are usually in the holiday periods and at week-ends.

Second point, whether it was 1984 or 1985; memory tells me that 1985 did not have a major NATO exercise as that was the year that Britain had a major home defence exercise. This involved many of Britain's forces on an internal UK scenario that also included the Army, Navy, Air Force reserves and Civil Defence elements.

Another scenario to consider is that NATO aircraft used to, and probably still do, practice navigational exercises (Navex's) in unfamiliar territory. This involved popping over the English Channel/North Sea (UK to Europe & vice-versa) for pilots and aircrews to practice low-level transits over unfamiliar airspace. This would be the most likely scenario that you may have experienced.

Thirty one-plus years ago is long enough to dull most memories so we may never know the definitive on this.

Mike

[RMP2]

Belgium and the Netherlands like Norway and Denmark retired the F-104 with the introduction of the F-16 in the early 80's.

Shakey ground for me, but I suspect the Dutch were still using at least some 104s in 85/86. Feel free to shoot me as I cant find my source for that so could well be wrong.

EDIT - Nope, Im wrong. It was 82 when I saw Dutch 104s at Binbrook. Now I feel old...

Edited August 8, 2016 by RMP2

[Boman]

Some sources here;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Lockheed_F-104_Starfighter_operators#.C2.A0Japan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Netherlands_Air_Force#Cold_War_era.2C_1960s.2C_1970s_and_later

RNoAF stopped using the F-104 in 1982

BAF stopped using the F-104 in 1983

RNLAF stopped using the F-104 in 1984

RCAF stopped using the F-104 in 1986, however I believe they were gone from Europe well before this time as the first CF-18 went to the units in Europe after introduction in 1982.

RDanAF stopped using the F-104 in 1986 (Esk 730)

[mcdonnell]

Here's a very long shot. It was either 84 or 85 I was walking home from school and this F-104 flew over at a great rate of knots very low going over Salisbury Plain. I vividly remember that noise of the J79, it had 4 fuel tanks fitted but could not make out any markings as it was a brief glance and it had gone.

Now this was a rare sighting so I'm assuming it was part of a nato exercise in the uk, would anybody have an idea of the 104 that I may have seen.

Steve

Hello,Steve - That's an interesting point.I remember seeing F-104s about this time whilst 'spotting' at RAF Leeming'.They flew over quite regularly(along with F-111s from Upper Heyford). They were always in dark green overall camouflage and were Canadian Air Force.They were based at Baden-Sollingen and fairly frequent visitors when Air Exercises were being held.I cannot say for sure that they were what you saw but they're certainly what springs to my mind.Again,the ones I saw had a full compliment of tanks and I've never seen any others 'in the wild' at all.

Hoping this may help answer a thought for you. All the best,Paul.

[rod mcq]

Some sources here;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Lockheed_F-104_Starfighter_operators#.C2.A0Japan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Netherlands_Air_Force#Cold_War_era.2C_1960s.2C_1970s_and_later

RNoAF stopped using the F-104 in 1982

BAF stopped using the F-104 in 1983

RNLAF stopped using the F-104 in 1984

RCAF stopped using the F-104 in 1986, however I believe they were gone from Europe well before this time as the first CF-18 went to the units in Europe after introduction in 1982.

RDanAF stopped using the F-104 in 1986 (Esk 730)

Canadian F-104s were still in Europe until at least 1985 - there were 2 in the static display at IAT Fairford in July 1985, 104808 and 2-seater 104650.

[one-o-four]

Canadian F-104s were still in Europe until at least 1985 - there were 2 in the static display at IAT Fairford in July 1985, 104808 and 2-seater 104650.

Last CAF CF104 flight took place in May 1986 when the last seven aircraft were flown from CFB Baden Soellingen to Turkey.

[Gary West]

They were always in dark green overall camouflage and were Canadian Air Force.They were based at Baden-Sollingen and fairly frequent visitors when Air Exercises were being held.I cannot say for sure that they were what you saw but they're certainly what springs to my mind..

CAF 104s adopted a green/grey camo scheme in the late 1970s so your spotting days would have pre dated that

[Finn]

We went to RAF Waddington in August 1984 with the CF-104, but mainly flew up North, one had a bird strike and had to divert to RAF Leeming. Mainly the duals - 2 seaters were fitted with 4 tanks although a few times a couple of singles went with 4 tanks.

Jari