Brandy Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 (edited) I had some time yesterday for modelling but didn't feel in the mood for drilling all the RE8's rigging holes, and I'm still waiting for the paints for the twin Fokker build, so what to do? I decided to prepare for my next project, or more accurately, decide what it would be. Since I'm really enjoying building the 2 Fokkers together I thought I'd do another double build. 3 of my last 4 builds have been Fokkers, (E.III, D.I & D.II) so I decided to dig out 2 of the very first kits to enter my stash: Classic Planes' Sopwith Tabloid, and Eduard's old Sopwith Baby. Here's what I have to start with: First the Tabloid.. Not too bad, but pretty basic. There are no stencils or guides of any sort for either the struts or the undercarriage so I'll have to measure those myself using the DF plans as referance. I will use an Aeroclub engine and prop, and it will be modeled to represent number 168 which, piloted by Lt RLG Marix, attacked the Zeppelin sheds at Duesseldorf on October 9th 1914, destroying Zeppelin Z.IX. This will be my first vacform kit build...... and the Baby... - this one is more like a limited run kit, with a huge amount of flash on most of the parts. I assume it was one of their first! Having said that, there are 3 small PE sets: one for engine details, one for the interior, and one for struts. The latter won't be used but the other 2 look very useful! The blue on all the roundals is a little too bright so I'll use aftermarket ones, but there are 2 sets of Sopwith factory stencils so I may be able to use the other set on the Tabloid! I then made a start on cleaning everything up, starting with the Baby: I removed the humps fore and aft of the cockpit which were on the Schneider, but not on the Baby, then started on the wings. They were first thinned quite considerably. About 1mm was removed from the leading edges, I straightened the wing tips as the moulded tips had a slight curve to them, and corrected and slightly enlarged the centre section cutouts. Finally, I cleaned the flash off the float parts and glued the 2 halves of each of the 3 floats together. The horizontal stabilisers and elevators are totally wrong and will be replaced. Today I made a start on the Tabloid. After removing the parts from the sheet they were all cleaned up and checked against the plans. The horizontal stabiliser and elevators were reduced in width by a couple of mm to start with - the easy bit! Cockpit and engine cutouts were carefully opened up and filed to shape, and the 2 cooling intakes on the nose drilled out. The wings were also reduced in chord by about 1mm, corrections were made to the centre cutout, and Mr Dissolved Putty was applied to the aileron edges as 168 was a wing-warper. The fin and rudder are too small so I'll make new ones, and the top of the cowling is a little too shallow, so maybe a little milliput will help there once it's all together. I still have to remove the little dots so characteristic of Classic Planes' vacforms.... These will probably sit at this stage for a while until the others are finished....RE8 rigging holes tomorrow! Thanks for looking in! Ian Edited July 3, 2017 by limeypilot 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 seems like you are a glutton for punishment though it has to be said that you are starting from a much better place this time around 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 seems like you are a glutton for punishment though it has to be said that you are starting from a much better place this time around He had to be really! Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergey Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 Hi Ian! Question: Sir, you pervert? Answer: No, but I enjoy the perversions ... Excellent project, waiting for the continuation, beer and chips already prepared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted September 8, 2016 Author Share Posted September 8, 2016 (edited) I'm waiting for some decals for the double Fokker build so I took the Baby out again today...the first thing I had to do was thin the fuselage sides to get the cockpit opening a little more to scale. Then I compared the fuselage to the drawings and realised that the top of the nose needed to be lowered a little - taken care of very easily by a little sanding, but more importantly, the rear fuselage was way too deep. I decided the easiest way around this was to cut the bottom off completely, chamfered slightly, so that I could simply add a piece of plastic card to give me a new underside.So it was marked up.... This shot shows one side done, and the other side marked with a black marker to show just how much was removed.. and finally it matches the drawings... The last correction that is needed may have to wait until the fuselage is together. The upper fuselage and cockpit opening are both wrong. Because the kit was moulded as a Schneider, with the raised forward fuselage, I will need to add filler to restore the correct curve over the top. The cockpit opening is also too square at the front, and too elongated at the rear, and needs to be more of a regular oval shape. I think the easiest way to do that will be to overlay a piece of plastic card once it's all together, but I may rethink that later. Ian Edited July 3, 2017 by limeypilot 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Great to see this underway again. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 My kind of building Ian. Watching that Baby with interest. Great stuff! Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Ooh, yes! The Schneider / Baby was such a pretty aircraft; I'm definitely on board for this one. [big nudge to Wing Nut Wings: why haven't you done any of these early Sopwiths yet? Or a Strutter?] 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted September 12, 2016 Author Share Posted September 12, 2016 (edited) On 9/8/2016 at 0:37 AM, martin hale said: Great to see this underway again. Martin Thanks Martin, I hope I can do them justice! On 9/8/2016 at 2:22 AM, TheBaron said: My kind of building Ian. Watching that Baby with interest. Great stuff! Tony I though the Baby would be the easier of the two...I'm not so sure now..... On 9/8/2016 at 4:56 AM, Ex-FAAWAFU said: Ooh, yes! The Schneider / Baby was such a pretty aircraft; I'm definitely on board for this one. [big nudge to Wing Nut Wings: why haven't you done any of these early Sopwiths yet? Or a Strutter?] Glad to have you aboard! I agree about the Baby, it does "look right"....hopefully this will too! I have repainted the Fokker D.I fuselage so couldn't do much with that today.....back to the Baby! I took another look at the floats and realised that they, too, are way over sized. So that was today's task. The shape was not far off but they were much too deep, and also needed quite a bit of filler on the seems along the sides. Here's one sanded down and compared to the uncorrected kit item.... The same treatment was given to the second main float and the tail float, which fortunately only needed a little filling and minor reshaping..... Followed by half an hour removing everything from my bench and cleaning all the sanding dust! That should be all the major corrections taken care of, so next up should be some actual progress... Ian Edited July 3, 2017 by limeypilot 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted September 19, 2016 Author Share Posted September 19, 2016 (edited) Since I'm still waiting for some custom decals from Poland for the Fokker build I've been doing small bits and pieces on this one in the meantime. I've added some rudimentary framework to both, and the firewall to the Tabloid. I'm not too worried about total accuracy here as most of it won't be visible. I then looked at marking up the holes for the control cables and while doing so, realised that the cut out for the horizontal stabiliser on the Baby wasn't long enough - it finished too far aft. So that was marked up and filed out.... Then I marked the positions of the holes for the cables, and filed out the rear of the Baby fuselage to allow for the control cables for the water rudder... That rear end cutout will be refined a little more once the fuselage is together. Thanks for looking in! Ian Edited July 3, 2017 by limeypilot 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 those parts look almost as high quality as Italeri! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted September 21, 2016 Author Share Posted September 21, 2016 (edited) On 9/19/2016 at 0:12 PM, hendie said: those parts look almost as high quality as Italeri! I don't have any experience of Italeri myself, but going from your Wessi post I'd say that's probably pretty accurate! I got a little more done over the last couple of days, slowly but surely starting to get some details in the cockpits. Eduard made this relatively simple by providing some PE (actually quite a lot) so that was painted and CA'd in. The instrument panel has a printed backing which was painted white on the reverse side and looks pretty good! I still have the rudder bar and control column/wheel to add, plus the seatbelts. The Tabloid had nothing but the seat so that has been fabricated with reference to pics of a replica. It may not be 100% accurate but it's good enough! Again, the controls and seatbelts have still to be added. I had a little "moment" with the Tabloid engine too....I'd already allocated an Aeroclub engine and prop to this kit when I first bought it so never looked at it again until I came to think about mounting it - after it had been painted. Then I realised I had a bit of a problem - too many cylinders! I'd just gone with the 9 cyl (100hp) version that was included with the kit, not realising that it should have had a 7 cylinder Gnome (80hp). Fortunately I had one left in the spares box so that's been painted up and is now ready to install. All that trouble and only the ends of 2, maybe 3 cylinders will be visible anyway! Oh well, at least it's correct! Thanks for looking in, Ian Edited July 3, 2017 by limeypilot 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spadgent Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 Awesome work on those cockpits. I'll grab a chair and join in if that's ok. john 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted September 22, 2016 Author Share Posted September 22, 2016 (edited) On 9/21/2016 at 5:55 PM, The Spadgent said: Awesome work on those cockpits. I'll grab a chair and join in if that's ok. john Please do john, the more the merrier! The first big hurdle cleared today.... I fitted PE seatbelts in both aircraft and the rest of the interior parts in the Baby, which meant I could close that one up! The next step on that one will be to fit a new underside, and cut a new upper front panel to correct the nose and cockpit opening. The Tabloid has also seen some progress. After the seatbelts were added I bit the bullet and went ahead and made a control wheel for it, Fairly simple, but fiddly! First a piece of .33mm nickel silver rod was gently heated, then it was wrapped around a piece of 3.2mm plastic rod The ends were pulled with pliers to tighten it around the rod, then it was cut at a point where the two ends overlapped The result: Then the really fiddly bit - adding the cross pieces. the hard part being not gluing it to the cutting mat. Finally, all done - one control wheel The last job today was to attach the engine (the correct one) to the bulkhead, and a dry fit of the fuselage halves to make sure it is positioned correctly. The halves are only placed together and won't be glued until the rest of the interior is done. I may also add some extra strips inside the fuselage where rigging lines attach, to give a little extra plastic for the attachment points - I've not built a vacform before so I'm not sure if it's necessary, but it seems a good plan to me...any advice from those experienced in vacs would be welcomed! Ian Edited July 3, 2017 by limeypilot 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristol boy Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 Interesting builds, missed the start but have just caught up. In my vast experience of two vac builds, neither of which involved rigging, I think a bit of internal reinforcement would not go amiss. Sometimes the fuselage walls can be quite thin. It will allow a decent depth of hole to be created for the rigging material to be super glued into. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianMF Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 I agree with Bristol Boy. The plastic must be getting pretty thin on some of the edges. Regards, Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted September 23, 2016 Author Share Posted September 23, 2016 (edited) Thanks chaps! As it happens, the only place I needed to add anything for the rigging was for the wing warping wires. The rest all attach to areas where I've already added strips as interior framework! More progress today, first the easy one...the controls were added to the Tabloid and it is now buttoned up! A lot more was needed on the Baby, so I started by cutting out the upper front fuselage from the plans and taping it to a piece of .005" sheet. The cockpit opening was carefully cutout, then widened slightly to allow for the curve (remembering that the plan is flat but the top of the fuselage isn't. It was then attached to the fuselage with PlasticWeld. Unfortunately, a little too much in one spot..... Nothing that can't be sorted with a little filler, but annoying...... I also needed a new fuselage underside so I cut a piece of .015" card and added it. After that was on, I thought I might as well add the lower wing too! Filler was then applied where needed - thankfully not too much - and left to dry. So,what to do next...I knew the cowling would need some work, so...... That is actually the 2 halves of the cowling, held together with flash - so much flash in fact, that I had to use a saw to separate the 2 parts! There's nothing like a nice, thin, scale cowling.....and this is definitely nothing like a nice, thin, scale cowling! so, out with the files, sanding sticks, and sharp knife blade, to scrape out a reasonable cowl from that lump of plastic... here's how it turned out Not too shabby, though I do say so myself! The other half was similarly dealt with, and the 2 were attached to the front end. Here's how they fit (I use the word "fit" in its loosest possible meaning)..... Of course, to be fair, I have changed the profile of the nose, so a not-too-good fit was to be expected.... Once that is properly dry I'll attach a piece of plastic strip inside the upper part, covering the joint, to provide a little more strength and also some extra plastic so I can sand the top down to match the new profile, then sand back the lower edges to match the bottom of the fuselage. Hopefully it will be that easy.... Thanks for looking in! Ian Edited July 3, 2017 by limeypilot 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tzulscha Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 (edited) Sweet! I had a friend try to get me to build the Baby for him once upon a time and turned him down flat. i wasn't even gonna try that one. Now I get to see someone else do it. I must say it looks darn good so far! Edited September 23, 2016 by Tzulscha duplicate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 things seem to be falling into shape (with a bit of coaxing) very nicely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted September 24, 2016 Author Share Posted September 24, 2016 (edited) On 9/23/2016 at 6:17 PM, Tzulscha said: Sweet! I had a friend try to get me to build the Baby for him once upon a time and turned him down flat. i wasn't even gonna try that one. Now I get to see someone else do it. I must say it looks darn good so far! Now you'll be able to call him and offer to build it for him! Cheers Hendie - a little coaxing, some big sanding sticks and maybe a small hammer..... Another good day at the bench, although a lot of it has been just sanding and filling. The Tabloid fuselage seams were treated to a few doses of Mr Dissolved Putty and seem to be good - obviously I won't know for certain until I get some primer on..... The first job on the Baby was to get that cowling sorted out, so out came the sanding sticks, then the putty, then the sanding sticks....you know the story.... I'm pretty pleased with it now! Then I tackled something that is not on any of the plans, but is definitely on the aircraft! I have no idea what it is, but there is a small bulge (fairing?) under the fuselage, just aft of the engine. It may be just a shield for something under there to keep the oil off it, or maybe it's supposed to help the oil run outwards and not along the underside of the aircraft - any thoughts? Whatever it is, it's now on the model... Finally I finished off filling the upper wing cutout, which isn't on the machine I'm modeling. Thanks for looking in! Ian Edited July 3, 2017 by limeypilot 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sten Ekedahl Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 Have the Baby kit somewhere in my stash.Should maybe bring it out and start it, using this excellent build as reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergey Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 Ian, great job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffB Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 Both are looking beautiful Ian. Your attention to detail is really paying off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 Phew! I'm all caught up now with progress Ian. Thoroughly enjoying your activity on the various sections of both aircraft - there seems to be something about vintage biplanes that brings out the craftsman in people and these are fine examples of that instinct. Lovely work! Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted September 28, 2016 Author Share Posted September 28, 2016 (edited) On 9/24/2016 at 10:09 PM, Sten Ekedahl said: Have the Baby kit somewhere in my stash.Should maybe bring it out and start it, using this excellent build as reference. Go for it Sten, it would be nice to see another one here! On 9/25/2016 at 2:08 AM, Sergey said: Ian, great job! Thanks Sergey, good to see you still tagging along! On 9/25/2016 at 2:51 AM, CliffB said: Both are looking beautiful Ian. Your attention to detail is really paying off Cheers Cliff! On 9/25/2016 at 4:20 AM, TheBaron said: Phew! I'm all caught up now with progress Ian. Thoroughly enjoying your activity on the various sections of both aircraft - there seems to be something about vintage biplanes that brings out the craftsman in people and these are fine examples of that instinct. Lovely work! Tony I'm not sure if it's vintage biplanes, or just bad kits that does that! Great to have you along Tony! I got some primer on them both to see where more work was needed. That showed up pretty much what was expected: along the spine and a small area on the cowling of the Baby, and the spine and underside of the Tabloid. Those have now been attended to and they're ready for another coat to see if any further work is needed: After that I decided I might as well make up the nw tail feathers, so those were cut from .020" sheet and are now ready for final detailing. Here is a look at how bad the kit parts were in comparison: The Tabloid: The horizontal stabiliser wasn't too far off, but it would have needed a lot of thinning so I thought it easier to just make a new one anyway... The Baby: The horizontal stabiliser was not even close on this one, and the rudder was too big.... so next up will be another primer coat to see what else needs further attention. Ian Edited July 3, 2017 by limeypilot 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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