Jump to content

IL-76 -"front flaps" down together with rear ones?


Recommended Posts

Hello,

Sorry for my not technical English but hope that my question will be clear with enclosed picture.

I have Il-76 Transport 1/144 Trumpeter on my work bench and I would like to know this.

Does "front" flaps move down together with "rear " flaps ?
Or this "front" flaps should be down and "rear flaps" without move (as provided in the kit)

Thank you for all advices,

Martin

27946874634_08ae881a15_b.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The "front flaps" are usually called "Slats". Most often they move together with the flaps so I'm not really sure why Trumpeter gave them to us as a separate part, unless it was to hide the join line in the leading edge.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It varies from type to type.

Large aircraft like this tend not to have flaps that are simply "up" or "down". Rather, they have several stages which are used for different stages of the flight.

There are some aircraft which, for the first stage of movement on the lever, only open the slats without moving the flaps. This configuration would be used for climb out, for example.

Off the top of my head, I can think of examples of aircraft which can have slats open with flaps up, but I can't think of any capable of lowering flaps with the slats closed.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you SovereignHobbies for detailed explanation.

So generally, it will not be wrong if I set the slats in open position without moving the flaps to simulate start or test of the slats before flight.

I have temptation to set it like this as Trumpeter provided the slats as separate parts. Just to make sure if this "open slats" position is ok with combination of flaps without move and landing gear on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It seems from a quick check on the internet that the Il-76 crews tend to use 30deg flap even for take-off, so even if the slats do deploy before flaps, there probably aren't too many situations were you might actually see a Candid configured that way.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So better to stick with slats and flaps "closed"...for this Trumpeter kit.

And this year supposed to be released Zvezda Candid where might be provided separate parts of flaps too...we will see :)

Thanks again for great and quick answers.

Martin

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Martin,

In most heavy, multi-engine aircraft flaps are always set to Take-Off position before departure. Slats has to be opened separately (they have their own separate lever) but they will always be opened for take-off as well. Take-Off position for flaps increases wing camber and therefore lift. Naturally this will also increase drag. The point is not to use the so called "Drag Flap" (landing position).

During Climb Out you will reach an air speed called VPCLEAN. It is the Indicated Air Speed that is safe for flap and slat retraction (the aircraft won't sink).

So if you are building an IL-76 just about starting it's take-off roll, open both slats and flaps. You can find some good footage on Youtube to see the correct angles.

I remember one (actually some) incident with IL-76. It was a cold winter day (close to -30 Centigrades) and an Ilyushin was preparing for take-off. Somehow the pilot miscalculated his taxiing track and the starboard wing tip hit the cargo terminal wall. The crew didn't note this but continued their turn. The wing ripped open some 20 meters of the hangar wall before they stopped. The Flight Engineer then climbed on the wing and started to bang the slat rail with a sledge hammer. He was hanging on a slippery wing without any safety gear. Some four or five meters above apron level. After some banging his happy: "Harashoo". Without further checks they then simply lined up and took off. For a 14 hour flight to Indonesia.

BR,

Antti

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That reminds me of the probably apocryphal story of a meeting between Andrei Tupolev and Kelly Johnson which apparently took place at a Paris Airshow or other. Tupolev is reported to have told Johnson "You Americans build airplanes like fine lady's watch. Drop watch and watch breaks in million pieces. We Russians build airplanes like Mickey Mouse clock. Drop clock and will stop. Pick up and hit once or twice; clock starts again!"

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Antti,

Thanks for excellent explanation.

I will leave flaps and slats without any move for this Trumpeter kit as to cut the flaps will take some time which we all never have not enough for this great relax hobby.

Maybe on the Zvezda kit the flaps will be as separate parts and I could make another model of this beatiful plane with flaps and slats down.

That story is really good and describes typical Russian way of solving problems. There is no doubt that their planes are more durable than any from other producers.

So lets go to continue on my Trumpeter Il -76 transport version.

Martin

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Martin,

How's the fit of the kit? I've read the accuracy is pretty good, minus the engines (I've ordered BraZ corrections). Mine is still in the mail because shipping from Hong Kong takes forever *insert yawn*. I'm hoping it's not a massive disappointment. And thank you for your question about the slats, this thread has been useful and will go down in my notes. May I also ask about the decals? Are they in good order? Civilian IL-76's are something I've only dreamed of seeing in real life. Sadly I've never left the Western Hemisphere, leaving me largely "uncultured" in the eastern world of airliners. Good luck with yours!

Drew

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That reminds me of the probably apocryphal story of a meeting between Andrei Tupolev and Kelly Johnson which apparently took place at a Paris Airshow or other. Tupolev is reported to have told Johnson "You Americans build airplanes like fine lady's watch. Drop watch and watch breaks in million pieces. We Russians build airplanes like Mickey Mouse clock. Drop clock and will stop. Pick up and hit once or twice; clock starts again!"

Lol :))) but I think it is true. As I was on the airshows Americans did not allow me even touch the plane, but Russians allowed me to sit inside the Tu-22 without any warnings like "do not touch this or that :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Slats has to be opened separately (they have their own separate lever)

Hi Antti, Boeings have flaps and slats controlled from a single lever. The combinations of slat and flap are predetermined. Lever fully forward gives a clean wing, and lever fully back/down gives full landing flaps.

On both, slats operate with the first increment of lever movement away from the the Up/Closed/Clean position.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Martin,

How's the fit of the kit? I've read the accuracy is pretty good, minus the engines (I've ordered BraZ corrections). Mine is still in the mail because shipping from Hong Kong takes forever *insert yawn*. I'm hoping it's not a massive disappointment. And thank you for your question about the slats, this thread has been useful and will go down in my notes. May I also ask about the decals? Are they in good order? Civilian IL-76's are something I've only dreamed of seeing in real life. Sadly I've never left the Western Hemisphere, leaving me largely "uncultured" in the eastern world of airliners. Good luck with yours!

Drew

Hi Drew,

I am building it together with Revell Ruslan.

So here is my quick review.

Fit

Revell Ruslan=Lego build, needs to play during "dry fit" then excellent

Trumpeter Il-76 = needs more sanding but general fit of the main parts (fuselage to wings is very good.

Surface detail on both is on todays standard and not very deep ...so no die-cast look :)

If you will go for civilian version (as I did) the worst part during build is that you need to cut whole back section of the fuselage (kit is universal for more versions) and this removed area must be replaced by cargo doors from more parts.

If i were you I will rescribe the cargo door on the fuselage without cutting it as the shape of the fuselage is more less the same after placing separate cargo doors.

Clear parts require some "dry fitting" but they copy shape of the fuselage very good and that is important for this plane.

Engines needs some scratbuild reparation or to order aftermarkets ones

Decals looks pretty good, gloss and not thick with good register.

I am planing to build Aeroflot for both Candid and Ruslan... this simple blue stripes fits to this planes best in my opinion.

Trumpeter kit is not disappointment, but compare to Revell Ruslan is more simple in landing gear section and unfortunatelly has no interior.

This plane has really elegant shape and when you built its main shape you will love it and you will get enthusiasm to finish it.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I bought the Trumpeter "tanker" version as it was available (it is very easy to convert to standard IL-76) The decals are quite good but the cheat line blue is far too dark. Unfortunately also in some aftermarket decals I purchased. The kit's engines are pretty basic and require some detailing.

Have you guys (Jessica included :) ) read Matt Potter's book "Outlaws inc. Flying with the World's Most Dangerous Smugglers" (Published in 2011)? Potter accompanied an IL-76 crew and tells their story. It will make your hair raise... ;)

An other memory came to my mind. Volga Dnepr Airlines was tasked to carry a power plant turbine shaft from Turku, Finland to Indonesia. Some 14 hours again. This time the plane was loaded to it's limits. Turku has 2600 meters of runway available; the minimum in IL-76's Air Crew Manual is 3000 meters for all "normal" operations (they don't use things like V1 and V2). A beautiful summer evening turned into night and the crew just sat and wait. Twice an hour the Flight Navigator asked me for the temperature and humidity. He then concentrated on his abacus(!) and the rest of the crew (some 10 men) stood quietly. After a while the Navigator shook his head: "Njet". The captain was walking back and forth with his hands behind his back. No-one dared to say a word.

It was something like four o'clock in the morning when temperature and humidity were checked again. This time the navigator smiled: "We go".

Less than 15 minutes later the big Ilyushin lined up runway 08 and began it's take off roll. My colleague climbed with a camera to the approach light mast at the 26 line. He got great photos with his telephoto lens but he seemed smashed for a week or so...

I was watching the take-off from the tower. The plane had 340 meters of runway left and it's nose wheel still firmly on the ground!

Listen to that Australian controller :lol:

BR,

Antti

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Antti_K, on 26 Jul 2016 - 1:42 PM, said:

Thank You James :)

I'm not familiar with Boeings. Do you mean all Boeings or some specific types?

BR,

Antti

Yes, most if not all Boeing airliners and freighters have the flaps and slats automated such that the one control operates both. They extend together so unless something has gone very wrong you'll never see a Boeing with only the slats out.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Well, if I didn't see it, I wouldn't've believed it." My thoughts exactly. That was amazing! I've really missed out on all the Russian planes. They never cease to amaze. Thanks for the help on the conversion/rescribing, Martin. I can't stop watching that takeoff!

Drew

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

To expand on Sovereign Hobbies' point about single lever operation of flaps and slats this was probably brought about in part by the loss of BEA Trident G-ARPI in June 1972 when the leading edge droops (which perform a very similar function to slats) were inadvertently and inexplicably retracted too soon after take off.  The aeroplane had not reached sufficient speed for the droops to be retracted and as they came up the centre of lift moved forward, causing the aeroplane to pitch up and enter a deep stall from which recovery was impossible.  Neither pilot reselected the droops down or tried to fly a recovery when the stick shaker and stick pusher operated.  The situation was aggravated by the captain suffering from a possible heart attack and the inexperience of the co-pilot, who was not pilot flying at the time.

 

Around  the same time Lufthansa lost a 747 at Nairobi when the crew attempted to take off with flaps down but slats up: they just about staggered into the air but the aeroplane stalled almost immediately, again at too low an altitude for a recovery to be flown.  Part of the problem there was that the slat position had not been incorporated into the configuration warning system and the crew had missed their selection and confirmation of same during their pre take off checks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This from an accident report of an Azov Avia  IL-76 that took off without the flaps or slats being deployed.

 

The Ilyushin freighter departed Ankara, Turkey for a cargo flight to Kabul, Afghanistan. In Ankara the airplane was loaded with 39980 kg of cargo. The next stop was Baku, Azerbaijan for refueling. The airplane took 47 tons of fuel, bringing the takeoff weight to 189 tons, and the centre of gravity to 29,3% MAC, which was within the prescribed limits. During the eight-hour stopover the crew decided to rest in the aircraft instead of a hotel. As the aircraft started taxiing to the runway the flight engineer was heard saying that he would select the flaps at 30 degrees and slats at 14 degrees for takeoff. This however was not done. Prior to takeoff the position of the flaps was not verified by any of the crew members.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...