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Calling all VC10 experts!


zebra

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So a few weeks ago my Dad asked what he could get me for my birthday. Knowing his love of old British airliners I thought he'd like to get me a Roden VC10. So this week two of them turned up. I think he only wanted to order 1, but his internet skills aren't the best, anyway who am I to complain!

Whilst I only saw them in airline service once, I had to have a VC10 in the collection. It's symbolic of the days when airliners were more interesting, not to mention noisier.

The plan was to build a BA Super VC10, since that's the only (non-RAF) one I ever saw in service - when Dad took me to Heathrow for the first time in Feb '81 I saw one, which I now realise must have only been a month before it retired.

Since I'm not desperately keen to do a BOAC or East African Super, the other one is going to have to be shortened. I always liked the BCal colour scheme, although I'm too young to have seen it on a VC10, so I think it has to be a BCal 1103. Hopefully 26 decals' shipping to Australia isn't too pricey!

I've done a bit of research on the net, including a couple of threads on here, but if any VC10s can confirm my thinking that would be great! And have I missed anything?

Here's what I think I need to do:

Fuselage: Needs 75 scale inches (about 13mm) removing in front of the wing, and 81 scale inches (about 14mm) aft of the wing. The cut in front of the wing should be straightforward, but the aft cut will be tricky as it has to be close to the wing root fillets. But I'm up for it.

Underfuselage fairing: I've read in one place - but only one - that the shape was different between the Standard and Super. But I've only seen one reference to this. Anyone know if this is correct, and if so how does it differ?

Wings: The 1103's had the leading edge extension so the basic wing shape from the Roden kit should be ok. I'll need to add a stall strip near the root, which will be tiny in 1/144 but I think will be noticeable, so I'm going to do it. A bit of stretched sprue should do it.

Inboard wing fences: The big inboard fence, which is present in the kit, should be used. I've seen references to it being a few inches inboard on the Standard, but I've not seen anything that tells me how many inches. If it's just a few inches I'm not going to worry about it in 1/144.

Outboard wing fences: One small fence at the end of the leading edge extension on the Standard. I'm also going to need to add fences to the Super, since they're missing from the kit.

Wingtips: The 1103s had the dog tooth wingtip. I've not found a close-up photo of the top, but it seems to be flush with the upper surface - the increased camber seems to come from the dog-tooth extension at the leading edge. Does anyone know how far forward of the leading edge the dog tooth extends? It looks like it'll only be 1 or 2 mm in 1/144.

Engines: I think the nacelles should be the same. The 1103s had 1 thrust reverser on each side, consistent with the kit. The 1103 needs the screwdriver-shaped fairing at the back of the nacelle, I think the kit's conical fairing is correct for a BA Super.

Engine pylons: The engines on the Super were moved outboard 11in (about 2mm in 1/144) and canted up by 3 degrees. I've read that the Roden engines don't have the upward cant. I also have my doubts about whether the pylon is broad enough for a Super - it looks like it'll be too narrow if I cut out 2mm. Meanwhile I've read that the trailing edge planform on the Super was squared off (although I haven't seen a really clear photo) so the pylons look like they might be better for a Standard than a Super anyway. So I might just leave them as they are on the 1103, and perhaps the Super as well.

So have I got all that right? And what have i missed?

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Yes I've seen that site. It's a great site but I thought some of the details were a bit vague (e.g. it tells you the difference in length between standard and super, but isn't as clear on how much is forward and aft of the wing, and the locations of things like wing fences aren't all that clear). Unless I'm missing something. Hence thought I'd gather together what I think are all the differences and see what people think.

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I used S&M decals for this build of the Airfix kit.

Didn't fuss over other inaccuracies - but did install inner wing fences.

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=178434

Airfix_BA_VC10_zpsf8q3sedf.jpg

I'd really like to build XV103 during the RAF Airline days - as I had a flight in her.

Edited by theplasticsurgeon
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Thanks to all who've replied. Kev and Graham, I've pm'd you my email address

Plasticsurgeon - I love your VC10. Looking forward to doing my Super in those colours.

Mike - I love that drawing. A good old fashioned done with a pencil drawing. They don't do 'em like that any more!

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You probably need something like this ;-)

working%20sizeS_zpswi5dpmjj.jpg

MMMMMMMMMMM where did you get that? I used to have one ,kept it in my desk......Forgot all about it when I left, I've regretted it ever since.

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Zebra

Inbd wing fence.

On the BOAC Standards and sell ons to Gulf,UAE and RAF K2s.The fence ran across the fwd tank lid.

On the Supers and RAF C.Mk1s (1K) the fence is only about 4 inches maybe less ish further outbd. The fwd tank lid nearly touches the fence,real knuckle scraper getting the big No4 Phillips VGS csk bolts out/in.

When I worked on the Sultan's 'ten (March 85) I removed most of the lids/leading edge for leaks.I cant for the life of me remember splitting the fence to get in. I do think that the VC10s with the extended stub wings have the fences further out so the BUA and sell ons (Malawi,Sultan,RAe Bedford) haven't and might be the fences riding the inbd lid. I probably elected to get in the tanks by the rear lids to save having to remove part of the fence.

BTW the fences start in the small bit of fixed leading edge between the fridge pack and first removable l/edge,the Supers and RAF C.Mk1s (1K) curve inbd from outbd part of the leading edge portion,Standards curve inbd from the inbd edge of the leading edge portion. See walkround pics of XV109 and G-ARVM front views of inbd wing.

Checkout the VC10 Walkround page......http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234913050-vickers-vc-10/ Its very good and four types there to compare with.

The wing root/belly/falsework fairings at the trailing edge are different . On the Super the fairing on the fuse is shorter (rear freight bay door gets in the way) .I'm not aware,can remember anything else but could be.

You are correct on the Beaver tails (screwdriver shaped fairing) Although the BUA and sell ons as mentioned above are a slightly different shape but not that much to spot in 144th. Supers are conical ,except for 2 BOAC kites SGC at Duxford being one and I can't remember the other! BTW do not paint them grey,they weren't painted,raw Titanium. The BOAC Supers started off with the blade shaped beaver. They've been modified to death since inception,they just shake to bits (almost!) loose rivets in loose skin held with loose frames!

See the walkround pics I mentioned and compare.

Engine cowlings. Standards have drains that stand off the lower surface others including the RAF C.Mk1s (1K) are flush (level with skin) holes.

Wing tip..The BUA,Ghana,MEA,Sultan,Malawi,RAe Bedford have the downturned Kucheman tip (higher cruise and altitude). Have a look at Kev's build.

Think that's all for now. Let me know what other info you need. Got stacks of pics. I have several folders on each VC10 differences like fences,beavers,stubs,tips ,l/edges and cowlings. I can email them to you.

Edited by bzn20
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Thanks bzn20. Now that you've pointed it out the trailing edges of the fairings are visibly different. The difference in length doesn't look huge, but the effect on the shape stands out. Don't suppose you know the difference in length? Although I think in 1/144 it'll be enough to do it by eye.

Re. the inboard fence - interesting! Mind you 4 inches isn't much at all when scaled down to 1/144 - about 0.7mm. Not sure my modelling skills are up to that level of precision!

I think I've now got enough info to crack on with the conversion. Many thanks to those who've helped me with info here.

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Zebra,sorry I don't know the difference in Beaver tail lengths, can't be much in it to worry about. The wing fence, lids are "engraved" in the kit's moulding, just off touching (about an inch in real life!)for the Super or a just gnats inside/on the line for the Standard will do ( fwd lid only!), depends if the curve at the front end is a must for you. Check the walkround pics for starting position of the fence for the type you're doing.

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MMMMMMMMMMM where did you get that? I used to have one ,kept it in my desk......Forgot all about it when I left, I've regretted it ever since.

Ah now being the finest subsonic aircraft built I have a little collection of Vicky 10 bits and bobs. I bought the drawing a few years ago with some other ex - Weybridge sales documents.

DSC_0387_zpsr1ritexb.jpg

_DSC0104_zps34f0kqfb.jpg

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Love the sectioned skin/windows. Those external doublers around the windows were a late mod. extending the airframe life. The window structure and primary window panel locking levers are more or less what you'll find on the 1-11 and Concorde but different material spec. The Air Diagram is good too but they've missed the emergency exit doubles/triples with swinging arms.Great items.

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  • 2 weeks later...

ADF Aerials. It's a Fairy thing, Avionics to you, I'm Airframes so that's as much as I can tell you.

Automatic Direction Finder.....!

Edited by bzn20
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Thanks, two bits of black decal will do it then. Now to sort out the anti collision lights, one on the fuselage top forward of the wing l/e, got that, presume there is one underneath as well but have not spotted it yet on pictures.

Check these VC10 walkrounds

http://aircraftwalkaround.hobbyvista.com/vc10/vc10.htm

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234913050-vickers-vc-10/

PM me your email and I'll send you a scale drg..

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Sorry to tread on your thread, but Bzn20 would it be ok to pm you as well with vc10 c1 questions? I am pouring over the roden kit, working out where best to cut and I am sure I will have many questions

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