The EDSG files #1: 1/72 Sea Venom FAW.21

[AlexN]

Yukko! There is a Sea Venom under that lot still, isn't there? Like everyone else here, I'm waiting with 'bated breathe to see what actually emerges from the black lagoon...

 

Cheers,

Alex

[TheBaron]

18 hours ago, CedB said:

Yikes, that's one dirty bird... can't wait to see how you take it off and the finish it achieves

That's been exercising my thoughts too of late! 

17 hours ago, rob85 said:

They are some beautiful moon pictures from yourself and Bill, can't believe that's on your phone Bill! 

 

The wife and I were admiring the moon the other night it was looking mighty impressive, and fortunately right outside our window! I must say we are lucky to live on a hill at the edge of town and no street lights so get great views of the night sky! 

 

The venom is looking stunning Tony! Really brilliant work and so much effort has been put in by your good self! 

 

So close now!

 

Rob

 

p.s. My vote goes to the barracuda.... We were voting weren't we??!!

Hi Rob! Thanks for those kind sentiments. Sounds like you and Mrs. Rob have the perfect moon-observing platform!. Malvern ? You must live on the 'bare topped hill' that gives the place its name - a beautiful part of the country!

 

We drive down beside the Malverns every summer on the way to Dorset - with the earnest intention of actually detouring to one day - like so many other parts of the British Isles, we've a humungous bucket list of places requiring a visit -  I swear you can hear the strains of Elgar drifting over above the motorway noise each time we drive past...

 

You think the Barracuda eh? 

16 hours ago, The Spadgent said:

Looks kinda brown trousers to me , she's  going to turn out brilliantly, 'tis a winning technique.  Excellent work on the details too. Looking forward to seeing the final parts come together, great stuff bud.

 

52 minutes ago, AlexN said:

Yukko! There is a Sea Venom under that lot still, isn't there? Like everyone else here, I'm waiting with 'bated breathe to see what actually emerges from the black lagoon...

 

Thanks John and Alex.  I took a look this morning and began to wonder had I done the right thing I can tell you!  Luckily I'd only done it as a series of washes, should things not go according to plan....

 

[TheBaron]

Thumbs and Wires (Apologies to XTC)

 

When last I flung images in your general directions, The Venom from the Brown Lagoon was in a most unprepossessing condition, more akin to something Iron Age recently unearthed from the boglands. There was a plan behind this (of sorts) to tackle the weathering-stage of the process as being as much about bringing-out form, as in making the aircraft looked operationally-used. At the back of my mind I'd wanted to try something similar to the kind of ambient occlusion map used in CGI work. This is a shot of a project I'd worked on elsewhere:

What an AO map does is give an extra 'punch' to a CGI asset by showing the relative surface brightness of an asset in relation to the light within a particular scene. You can see it's not giving shadows per se, but simply showing the shaded form of the object in a much more defined way. I actually quite like the look of these AO passes, though you never see them in the final work in this state.

 

From this you can guess I was hoping to try something similar with an actual physical object. I had seen people using modulated painting techniques on AFVs and so forth, but a lot of those I looked at seemed to be more about showing light above and counter-shading beneath. It seemed to me this would look odd on an aircraft when viewed from different angles, so I thought a physical version of the ambient occlusion might (or might not! ) be interesting to try.

 

First pass with some soft rag:

This was intended to remove unwanted tonality across the major surface areas, but leave darker tones gathered in regions like the boom/wing interface, teardrop fairings and so forth. The same for the underside:

At this stage it's as much about feeling as it is vision, feeling the form of the aircraft under your fingers and pulling back pigment off of the raised areas. It's important to stop every minute or so and appraise what your doing; it would be very easy to go over the score and remove too much, or just as bad, have the effect applied unevenly across the airframe. Once it was in this state, I stopped for about 30 minutes for a coffee and came back to it fresh.

 

I discovered that the usual 'cotton buds and white spirit' method of wiping back the excess on panel and sludge washes wasn't quit right for the visuals I wanted, which was more than the kind of 'slipstreamed' you can see on the wing and tailplane above. At this scale it needed some more precise and locally-varied modulation, so it was out with a mixture of large and small paintbrushes and white spirit.

 

Something uber-flaky going on with the forum  this afternoon as I've just lost half of this update when pushing 'save' 

 

I've more to post on that stage, including the rockets, but I'll have to post that missing half later as I've run out of time to do this now...

 

Adieu,

Tony

 

Tony

 

 

[TheBaron]

Thumbs & Wires Pt.2

After some time alternating with various size brushes - small for accentuating and making more definite certain details, wide and soft for a sfumato (improve your word-power with Baron) effect on larger and more diffuse regions, the second pass was heading in the right direction:

For the undersides my key reference throughout has been this shot of WW150:

 I suspect that this image has had the contrast stretched, so I didn't aim for such extreme differences of tonality. After 90 minutes with the brushes and oils, and then airbrushing some flat black on for tailplane scorching and rocket residuals under the wings, my approximation of the photo details is this:

At this scale I see no point in trying for finer detail, as the surface textures of the model itself will start to work against you IMHO. 

 

Leaving that to dry off, it was time to look at the fireworks, giving me the perfect opportunity to play with my new toy - a bending jig for plastics and metals:

Having experimented with plastic 'whiskers' and found them too flexible, 5-amp fuse wire gives a good solid representation of said cabling at this scale. It's particularly important to use a rigid material that will hold it's shape as there is so little surface area to glue that you don't want any pressure put upon the bonds by elastic materials. To Eduard Sausage-Fingers here, said detailing did not come easily, but with several calls upon Jehovah and about 40 minutes later, we're Wired for Loud:

 

Once those cable are painted-up and the rockets re-mounted to the wings, IMHO they look pretty much Ok:

As things stand, I'm going to leave that at least 24hrs for all of today's pigmentation work to thoroughly dry-out. Then it's a final sealing -coat of varnish, and time to fit the wing-folds/jury post. Oh. And add another pitot to replace the one I had which lasted not at all.

 

Here's the -by now traditional - 'here she sits' image to finish with:

Expect an RFI by Sunday.

 

Thank for looking!

Tony

 

 

[CedB]

Phew! Tony despite my concerns that's turned out really well - much better than 'well' actually, she looks really smart and weathered beautifully. Good job Sir!

Those whoosh wires look effective too, another great detail.

Bending jig? Oooh, I don't have one of those... tool envy now...

[Navy Bird]

Nice work with the mud bath, pigments and oils - hard to believe how this has turned out based on what you started with. Woo hoo!   

 

Cheers,

Bill

[The Spadgent]

She looks even better than I thought she would. Absolutely stunning, I think I'm going back to the brown trouser for the Seafire as it gives a less dirty and more AO look. Great stuff kid, I'll be sad to see her finished, kinda feels like an old friend.

 

roll on Sunday. 

 

johnny

[TheBaron]

4 hours ago, CedB said:

Phew! Tony despite my concerns that's turned out really well - much better than 'well' actually, she looks really smart and weathered beautifully. Good job Sir!

Those whoosh wires look effective too, another great detail.

Bending jig? Oooh, I don't have one of those... tool envy now...

Thanks for that Ced. Apparently there are some of those jigs still in stock:

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Expo-Mini-Bending-Shaping-Tool-wire-strip-and-tube-71530-/332005116564?hash=item4d4d0c0a94

Apparently. 

1 hour ago, Navy Bird said:

Nice work with the mud bath, pigments and oils - hard to believe how this has turned out based on what you started with. Woo hoo!   

 

Cheers,

Bill

Thanks Bill, I appreciate that from one who recently set the bar so high on this particular aircraft.  

17 minutes ago, The Spadgent said:

She looks even better than I thought she would. Absolutely stunning, I think I'm going back to the brown trouser for the Seafire as it gives a less dirty and more AO look. Great stuff kid, I'll be sad to see her finished, kinda feels like an old friend.

 

roll on Sunday. 

 

johnny

Cheers for those warm sentiments John! What will I do when this is all over? I'll keep my eye out for a return of the old trouserino technique, Spadder-style. 

[rob85]

Dam it my phone died mid post!

 

basically it said that the venom looks 'the nuts' the wash has brought her out a treat. wires on the rockets! 

 

Malvern, if you pop into the town centre you can see Elgar not just head him! He is looking over the main road and you can even see him sending a text leaning against a phone box....while your doing that you can pic up free water, purest there is! 

 

I I live to the far west, in the lower parts of the hills, actually a bit of a valley (wind tunnel! ) however our house can be seen for miles around and the ground dips away to a flat plain infront so un-interrupted views of.... The sky!! Perfect really, nothing blocks it.... Apart from a big hedge, if it wasn't for that it would actually be perfect...

 

if you passing again pop in and say hi

 

Rob

[CedB]

2 hours ago, TheBaron said:

Apparently there are some of those jigs still in stock

 

Thanks Tony - on the shopping list (and actually a bit cheaper from Model Hobbies)!

[AlexN]

Fantastic result, Tony - it was never in doubt, was being my usual flippant self . 'Woosh wires' add that little je ne sais crois . Thank you for the bit about ambient occlusion and your adaptation of the technique, very interesting - and useful!

 

You really should encourage our resident gadget mule (I was one on my notorius boat thread ) - we thus get to evaluate a tool with Ced paying up and doing all the hard work >snigger<.

 

Ah, Elgar - I recently had the very good fortune to play 1st oboe in Sea Pictures and three of his 'salon pieces' (plus P&C No. 4 ) - some of his most lyrical and least bombastic works. A true delight, if rather taxing - playing ppp underneath the vocal line in SP...

 

So that's what 'Malvern' means (me mum few up in Malven, Adelaide). After visiting Scotland recently, I also have a large 'bucket list' refferant to said place: including moving there! Winters might be a bit of a harsh shock, though.

 

Looking forward to seeing the fully-plumed and (sort-of) flighty-worthy bird on the weekend .

 

I think that I may have been hoping for a Sea Hawk, but a Barracuda will make a nice contrast from the jet.

 

Cheers,

Alex

Edited October 20, 2016 by AlexN
Spelling

[Martian]

Can't wait to see the finished article!

 

Martian

 

[perdu]

I say old chap, I've a complaint to deliver

 

I'll never be able to 'finish' another model after seeing the results of your skilled weathering

 

Can I just pop my builds in the post to you for post processing, please?

 

The Sea Venom is just wonderful

[71chally]

cracking results there Tony!

[TheBaron]

15 hours ago, rob85 said:

I I live to the far west, in the lower parts of the hills, actually a bit of a valley (wind tunnel! ) however our house can be seen for miles around and the ground dips away to a flat plain infront so un-interrupted views of.... The sky!! Perfect really, nothing blocks it.... Apart from a big hedge, if it wasn't for that it would actually be perfect...

 

if you passing again pop in and say hi

Sounds...idyllic under the big sky Rob!  

Don't be surprised if I pop in one day for a pint of water and some Engima Variations....

13 hours ago, CedB said:

Thanks Tony - on the shopping list

Always glad to do my bit for free trade....

12 hours ago, AlexN said:

Fantastic result, Tony - it was never in doubt, was being my usual flippant self . 'Woosh wires' add that little je ne sais crois . Thank you for the bit about ambient occlusion and your adaptation of the technique, very interesting - and useful!

 

You really should encourage our resident gadget mule (I was one on my notorius boat thread ) - we thus get to evalate a tool with Ced paying up and doing all the hard work >snigger<.

 

Ah, Elgar - I recently had the very good fortune to play 1st oboe in Sea Pictures and three of his 'salon pieces' (plus P&C No. 4 ) - some of his most lyrical and least bombastic works. A true delight, if rather taxing - playing ppp underneath the vocal line in SP...

 

So that's what 'Malvern' means (me mum few up in Malven, Adelaide). After visiting Scotland recently, I also have a large 'bucket list' refferant to said place: including moving there! Winters might be a bit of a harsh shock, though.

 

Looking forward to seeing the fully-plumed and (sort-of) flighty-worthy bird on the weekend .

 

I think that I may have been hoping for a Sea Hawk, but a Barracuda will make a nice contrast from the jet.

 

Cheers,

Alex

Thanks for that Alex! 'Gadget mule'...sounds so much better than 'Tool Mule'!

 

The Oboe playing sounds very cool: was there a recording of the performance? Suddenly the cultural profile of this thread has been elevated significantly! Jacqueline du Pré's interpretation of the Cello Concerto remains one of my recurrent favourites; such a passionate and enduring performance.

 

Seahawk or Barracuda...having both, it's a dilemma worthy of Solomon! Possibly some kitbashing to make that rare variant of Barrahawk.....

 

10 hours ago, Martian Hale said:

Can't wait to see the finished article!

Thanks Martin. Carrier sighted and on final approach....

4 hours ago, perdu said:

I say old chap, I've a complaint to deliver

 

I'll never be able to 'finish' another model after seeing the results of your skilled weathering

 

Can I just pop my builds in the post to you for post processing, please?

Carl Weathers approves your request:

The old woman in the village crossed themselves... and whispered crazy things, strange things. "El Diablo cazador de hombres." Only in the hottest years this happens. And this year, it grows hot....

4 hours ago, 71chally said:

cracking results there Tony!

Hence all the filler..... 

Thanks James!

[keefr22]

Tremendous stuff Tony, that weathering is some of the best I've seen for, oh, a very long time! Superb work!! 

 

Liking those  rockets too!

 

Keith

 

 

[Tomoshenko]

Weathering is looking excellent Tony. Try giving ground soft pastels a go. They are quite subtle and you can build up the effects. Different strokes for different strokes mind, and your technique is looking good.

[AlexN]

On 10/20/2016 at 23:17, TheBaron said:

The Oboe playing sounds very cool: was there a recording of the performance? Suddenly the cultural profile of this thread has been elevated significantly! Jacqueline du Pré's interpretation of the Cello Concerto remains one of my recurrent favourites; such a passionate and enduring performance.

 

The one of Sea Pictures that we have (vinyl and digital, the latter because our expensive-but-made-China Cambridge Audio turntable pre-amp doesn't work, vale "Made in the UK") is the Baker/Barbirolli/LSO pairing with with the du Pré performance of the Cello Concerto (also a favourite - she recorded the concerto with her husband Baremboim conducting). Some of the salon pieces can be found all over the place, but I chose (almost at random) those from the Andrew Davis BBCSO & Choir, The Queen's Diamond Jubilee - a Commemerative Album  release on iTunes (Chanson de Matin, Chanson de Nuit, and Salut d'Amore). The cover says, slightly ambiguously, "Queen's 60 Diamond Jubilee" - I didn't think that Queen's members were old enough to have been going for 60 years .

 

Um, if you meant, was there a recording of our performance, thankfully not! Especially since the 1st oboe was succumbing to a vicious cold during the performance, gurgle gurgle . Still coughin' and wheezin' five-plus weeks later. There have been some nasty colds and 'flus about this year.

 

On 10/20/2016 at 23:17, TheBaron said:

Seahawk or Barracuda...having both, it's a dilemma worthy of Solomon! Possibly some kitbashing to make that rare variant of Barrahawk.....

 

Waah! A jet-powered Barracuda? The mind boggles, . A prop-powered Sea Hawk I can just get my feeble brain around.

 

Whatever you decide, I'm sure it wil be great!

 

Cheers,

Alex

 

 

Edited October 23, 2016 by AlexN
Deleting a single extraneous letter

[NAVY870]

Tony you'll need to add some dark staining around the upper starboard wing only.

The starter exhaust blasts straight across there and fills up the panel lines with cordite soot, even worse if the driver fires up with the wings folded

(punishable by death on my girls)

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

10 hours ago, AlexN said:

A jet-powered Barracuda? The mind boggles, . A prop-powered Sea Hawk I can just get my feeble brain around.

 

If my understanding of the design evolution is correct, a prop Sea Hawk was called a Sea Fury!

 

As for the Barra, since most of its shortcomings stemmed from it being grossly under-powered, maybe a decent turbo-prop would have transformed it - or would that just have made it a Gannet?

[bigbadbadge]

Hi Tony

 

Please excuse my absence all week, but have been madly trying to work on stuff before the big dismantling of the loft workshop tomorrow. 

What a marvellous job on this model, the weathering is fab, like Perdu I am gonna have to look at the weathering totally differently now, considering what you started with the model you have before you is a work of art.

 

I have found this thread very entertaining and educational, thank you.  I look forward to seeing this in RFI and seeing what is next.

 

Thanks for sharing

All the best

Chris

[Martian]

I would vote for Barracuda next, there are more opportunities for you to exercise your super detailing skills.

 

Martin

[TheBaron]

On 20 October 2016 at 8:49 PM, keefr22 said:

Tremendous stuff Tony, that weathering is some of the best I've seen for, oh, a very long time! Superb work!! 

 

Liking those  rockets too!

Thanks very much Keith!  You can't beat a good rack of bangers. Ooo-err.

On 20 October 2016 at 9:01 PM, Tomoshenko said:

Weathering is looking excellent Tony. Try giving ground soft pastels a go. They are quite subtle and you can build up the effects. Different strokes for different strokes mind, and your technique is looking good.

Hi Tomo! Will do on those pastels. I just noticed Steve's post further down, so we may be seeing some carbon deposits being created this way.

On 20 October 2016 at 10:05 PM, AlexN said:

Um, if you meant, was there a recording of our performance, thankfully not!

Boo! I'm sure it was great, snuffles or no! I've had one of those Cambridge pre-amps for years - my kids remain fascinated by the Rotel turntable as if it were something out of Jules Verne...

 

A jet-powered Barracuda? Reminds me of a joke I saw printed in Monster Fun comic when I were a lad: 'What goes a hundred miles an hour underwater? (A motorpike and sidecarp...)

 

I didn't say it was a good joke. Only that I remembered it!

15 hours ago, NAVY870 said:

Tony you'll need to add some dark staining around the upper starboard wing only.

The starter exhaust blasts straight across there and fills up the panel lines with cordite soot, even worse if the driver fires up with the wings folded

(punishable by death on my girls)

You know that flickered across my noggin last time your posted that pic of all that smoke blasting out of a start-up Steve. I hear what your saying - was there a definite pattern that the cordite deposits formed? In my mind's eye I see something like this, with a fan of carbon spread out over that wing:

Would the wind have blown it back more to make it more elongate and less regular than this? I'm assuming you mean it's just the panel lines in this region that collected these deposits, the panels themselves would be swept clean by airflow?

13 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

 

If my understanding of the design evolution is correct, a prop Sea Hawk was called a Sea Fury!

 

As for the Barra, since most of its shortcomings stemmed from it being grossly under-powered, maybe a decent turbo-prop would have transformed it - or would that just have made it a Gannet?

OOh. I got a Gannet too - the FAA is the gift that keeps on giving. Now I don't know which way to turn. Once you've finished all those magnificent Sea King drawings Crisp, maybe it's time for an FAA family-tree graphic? 

BTW, I saw this poster up on the 'bay. Rather beautiful and I'm tempted to pick up a copy:

2 hours ago, bigbadbadge said:

What a marvellous job on this model, the weathering is fab, like Perdu I am gonna have to look at the weathering totally differently now, considering what you started with the model you have before you is a work of art.

 

I have found this thread very entertaining and educational, thank you.  I look forward to seeing this in RFI and seeing what is next.

Much obliged for that Chris. I find the interaction and sharing of knowledge here a pleasure that just gets stronger with each new build - glad you're enjoying it too!  Hope things go smoothly for you on the loft! 

 

1 hour ago, Martian Hale said:

I would vote for Barracuda next, there are more opportunities for you to exercise your super detailing skills.

I feel a Martian  at my shoulder....

Off to fondle a particular Special Hobby box. Now..bombs or torpedoes?

 

Night all!

Tony

[rob85]

Tony that is a beautiful poster, nice find! 

 

And torpedo obviously!! It's what gentleman drop  

 

Rob

[AlexN]

1 hour ago, TheBaron said:

OOh. I got a Gannet too - the FAA is the gift that keeps on giving. Now I don't know which way to turn.

 

Same here, although the 1/48 CA (a.k.a. Special Hobby? Anyone confirm?) version wi' lots o' resin bits. FAA is the gift that keeps on giving . I was - pleasantly - surpised to find after cataloguing my collection some months ago that a very healthy proportion of it is FAA. Interestingly, the first particular aeroplane that I was ever aware of was a Sea Vixen, courtesy of a die-cast Dinky toy that my dad brought home for me one day. EDSG and Gloss White . Yay!

 

Looking forward to whatever pops up   . And the RFI too, o' course .

 

Cheers,

Alex