Albatros flash paintjob advice

[Beardie]

Hi all I am currently starting on the Roden 32 Albatros D.III and I have set myself the challenge of doing it in the barbers pole design of Joseph Loeser. Now I am trying to figure out just how to mask the darn thing so looking for any advice.

[JohnT]

Do Richtofens instead!

OK that's not helpful but good luck - that's tricky to say the least but not impossible

[Beardie]

Thanks for the advice John

At first I thought... Masking tape of the approximate width and just whack it on and then the old brain kicked in with the spanners for the works. Various contours altering width of fuselage, need for the stripes to meet dead centre top and bottom of fuse and the stripes have to be bang-on for location and even accurate width in order to work out in the correct places. Hmmmm I think this is going to be fun :mental:

[Troy Smith]

very careful masking .... overall white, mask, then red

see

http://www.coladoresdeplastico.com.br/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=636&start=70

http://uamf.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5087

You may find it easier to use thin pinstripe tape for the edges and fill in with maskol or copydex.

Just suggestions Marty

I had a mate years ago who did his red mini into candystripes...and then got seats to match

..

[Beardie]

Thanks for those links Troy I hadn't come across those ones, Surprisingly it looks as if just using thin tape will work fine. I now need to do some more research as there are slight differences between the two builds you linked to and the pattern shown in the Roden painting guide.

On th Spanish Brazilian site it shows the red of the tail covering the leading edge and on the Uamf build the lines stop and leave an unstriped area under the fuse.

A completely red and white stripy mini must have been a sight to give sore eyes.

[Paul Thompson]

I did this scheme using the Battleaxe kit, completed just before the Roden one came out. The slab sides of the D.III make it relatively easy. I just painted it gloss white, marked the red bits ut on the flat sides with Tamiya tape cut to the appropriate width, then joined over the top and bottom with very thin strips to get the curve right, filling in with scrap tape after. Nowadays it might be easier to eyeball it and use the new Tamiya flexible tape to outline it before filling in with Kabuki. There are some photos of my effort at http://www.wwi-models.org/app/sbj/srch/Macn.php?action=uModelList&subjId=26, hoping it's alright to post the link because I no longer have my own copies of the photos and the model got battered slightly when I moved to Scotland. HTH anyway.

Paul.

[Beardie]

Thanks Paul,

That is a very handsome model. I think I am going to have fun with this one. I note that the Roden kit has the same sorts of imperfections that I had hoped were restricted to the 1/48 kits with mysterious scrape marks at the edges of the fuselage halves, flow marks and small areas of damage around the fine details.

[Paul Thompson]

Thanks Paul,

That is a very handsome model. I think I am going to have fun with this one. I note that the Roden kit has the same sorts of imperfections that I had hoped were restricted to the 1/48 kits with mysterious scrape marks at the edges of the fuselage halves, flow marks and small areas of damage around the fine details.

Thanks. I agree, pity about the occassinal damage in some of their kits. To my mind the most irritating is if it's the trailing edge of a wing. Sometimes they get one or two damaged areas because they're very thin and the plastic soft, and something else in the box has exerted pressure to cause a tear. Easy to fix, but shouldn't happen. I've never had the flow marks be a problem though - all the ones I've seen have been discolouration only, so invisible under paint.

If you're adding internal detail - the worst part of the Roden kit (I've done two) is getting all the engine bearers and cockpit bulkheads in place and still being able to close the fuselage. The price you pay for a pretty good engine, non CAD design, and fairly limited moulding technology. I really like Roden kits and have built all of their WWI stuff in all scales, except the big Nieuports (just not got around to them yet, slightly put off by their seeming to have been designed and moulded by another company to a slightly lower standard). But stuffing the innards into the 1/32nd Albatros got me a bit frustrated at times. Worth perservering though, IMHO. I just wish they were a bit cheaper. When they first came out I could get them in the Netherlands for the equvalent of £30.00, for which price I'd happily put up with the challenges and sometimes the need to use alternative decals. Times change.

Paul.

[Beardie]

Thanks for the advice Paul. I have read a few build reports and all said the same thing about getting the engine etc. zipped up being a problem it's not helped either by how thin and soft the fuselage halves are meaning that they don't line up out of the box and it will need care and a 'little bit at a time' approached to getting them all correctly stuck together.

[Viking]

Hi Beardie,

Lots of this strips of tape (as you have already figured out) and even more pateince!
One thing to be aware of is that the stripes may or may not go completely around the fuselage. I did Fritz Rumeys striped Albatros D.V a couple of years ago and it was only when I found a revised drawing of the underside in the Wingnuts site, that it made sense and became possible. The stripes actually stopped and reset themselves on the underside.

see here

Finished article here

You'll need a lot of patience but it is worth it.

HTH John

[Beardie]

Thanks for the input Viking. I have the Wingnut Albatros on the shelf and am intending to do that one as Fritz Rumeys' machine so I will be studying the stripes carefully before setting to work on it.

[Beardie]

Well my first attempt has failed. Painted the fuselage, wings and tail white and spent hours taping them up. Tried using the painting guide in the instructions and couldn't get it to balance out the went by eye basing it on the boxtop and got what I thought was a decent layout. Sprayed the red on, stripped the masking off and found that my Humbrol red enamel had blown under even the slightest wrinkle in the tape and that I had got the point where the stripes meet under the fuslage out of line just enough to disturb the eye.

Been pondering what to do for a while and finally I have decided that I will paint the whole darn thing red for a start and try overpainting the white. I will be spraying the Alclad enamel white which seems to cover really well so, hopefully, I wont end up with pink and white. I contemplated stripping back to the bare plastic and starting fresh but I have a feeling that I will have trouble with the paint as I started with Alclad white primer followed by Alclad White enamel so not at all sure what would strip it without damaging the underlying plastic.

[JOAN]

I would go to make a free stripe of paper as a template/rule to make a straight visible masking all around the fuselage section... Then I would use a very narrow masking tape to mask white ( starting to the sides since the D III fuselage section is flat on the sides...) from the starting board to the ending board of each stripe. I would complete the middle with a broader masking tape or paper or anything. Then spray the red ( always the lighter color first...).

I used this process as a professional modeler few years ago for trains prototypes.

I have the small Eduard on the bench but I am really interrested about the Roden 32...

hope this will help.

cheers

olivier

Edited August 12, 2016 by JOAN

[Black Knight]

Tamiya [stretchy] tape for curves would help with this. Its designed just for your sort of paint job.

Available in 1mm, 3mm & 5mm widths

[Beardie]

Well I have to admit that I decided to cut my losses on this one and have refinished it to be the natural wood finished aircraft of Loewenhardt. I was forced to strip all the existing paint off the wings and horizontal tail but I didn't want to try and strip the paint from the fuselage and risk damage to paintwork of the cockpit and engine and Eduard photoetch external components. I don't have any flexible masking tape to hand so will need to get some and, at a later date I will buy another copy of the kit and make a concerted effort to get the Loeser paint job done correctly. To date I have only found one picture of the actual aircraft online so I have little to go on in getting this right.

[Beardie]

Well the air has turned blue here!!! :jump_fire:

Having decided to convert this model to represent Loewenhardts machine work has progressed at decent speed until........... Yup Roden decals for their 1/32 kits are just as absolutely rubbish as their 1/48 ones!!!!!!

First sign was a fine black line for the fuselage side which fragmented into a thousand bits as soon as it touched the model. Next the tailplain kreuz which exploded over the hinges of the tail and finally the absolute disaster was the white squiggly line along the side of the model which virtually disintegrated as it came off the backing paper.

Tried all the recommended tricks for Roden decals (nice glossy surface, nice hot water, decal solution etc.) but they just fell apart and now the model will go onto the shelf of doom unless I can devise a suitable mask or locate some after market decals for Loewenhardt or someone else who had a natural wood D.III (OAW) with purple and green camo wings and tail and yellow spinner :crying:

Why do Roden even bother putting decals into their boxes? Is it specifically done to ruin the models once you are getting close to finishing or some other evil plan?

Does anyone know of another source of Loewenhardt decals in 1/32?

[stevehnz]

Beardie, too late to help you now but a couple of tips that might work down the track.

1, Seal the edge of masking tape with your base colour brushed on to prevent under runs.

2 Microscale Liquid Decal film, does just what it says on the bottle, magic for preventing crappy decals shattering.

Steve.

Edited August 15, 2016 by stevehnz

[Paul Thompson]

Beardie, too late to help you now but a couple of tips that might work down the track.

1, Seal the edge of masking tape with your base colour brushed on to prevent under runs.

2 Microscale Liquid Decal film, does just what it says on the bottle, magic for preventing crappy decals shattering.

Steve.

Ditto. Although Roden decals usually need two coats.

Paul.

[Beardie]

Thanks Steve and Paul, I have some of the Liquid decal film and had contemplated giving them a dose but didn't think it was needed (due to reading reviews which said the decals on the 1/32 roden kits were OK) until it was too late all the decals for my other Roden kits will be getting treated with it. I guess this one is changing it's identity again Studying the kit painting options I realised that I would just need to mottle the fuselage and paint the vertical tail plane yellow to use the decals for the Marine Field jasta III option so that I can at least get this one finished.

[Dal]

Beardie, I had the same problem you did with Roden decals, when I was doing their N.28. They split, exploded and were stiffer than new boots using warm water. But they can be tamed by using hot water. Don't use boiling water (they shrivel up), but I used water straight out of the hot tap (about 65°C) and they did work quite well. You need to get them in position fairly quickly, though, as once they cool they become brittle again. They respond reasonably well to a hairdryer, or a soft cloth dipped in hot water, being used to smooth them down. Microset works, but they didn't like either Mr Softener nor MicroSol, hence the hairdrier/soft cloth.

You may also find that even the darker colours, like dark blue, are a little translucent. On my N.28 I bought SuperScale decals for the national roundels, as the camouflage pattern on the top wing really showed through the kit decals.

Edit because of illiterate fingers

Edited August 15, 2016 by Dal

[Beardie]

Thank Dal,

I did use hot water and the first couple went on OK (Water scalding hot from the tap) but I guess that, after a few minutes the water had cooled down to not quite scalding and they became brittle. I will give them a couple of coats of liquid decal film in the hopes that this will make them a bit tougher and more flexible.

[Beardie]

It is very disappointing as the kit has been excellent otherwise with the only complaint being some of the detail being soft/damaged and needing to be replaced with the Eduard etch ones. I would have thought that, by now, Roden would have sorted out their decals or at least offer replacement upgrade sets for kits which are already out there. I wouldn't mind buying replacement decals if it meant that I could pick a scheme and stick with it without fear that the model will have to be reworked or ruined at such a late and crucial state as the paintwork and decals.

[Bear Paw]

I feel your pain with the Roden decals. I had the same experience with their 1/48 Se 5a. The British aircraft schemes don't vary too much - but it is a pain having to research and buy new decals and adjust the colour scheme at the end of a build like that. They need to invest some money in this area. Eduard manage it.

I got near the end of my SE 5a tried the decals and finally lost the will to live - I tipped the whole thing in the bin, box and all.

Edited August 15, 2016 by Bear Paw

[Beardie]

It is that disheartening isn't it?

After only two Roden 1/48 scale kits I vowed never to buy another of their 1/48 scale offerings. I was hopeful that they might be better in their more expensive 1/32 scale kits, especially as there are few after market options for them. One of the worst was the 1/48 scale Roden Fokker D.VII. After spending hours getting the thing to the decalling stage only to watch the lozenge disintegrate into tiny little shards as it came off the backing, That one went into the bin after an interview with the wall!

[Bear Paw]

I have dropped models at the rigging stage before, and remade them but even that is not a frustrating as the Roden SE5a.

I have a 1/48 Roden Gladiator sat unmade on the shelf, it looks good but again I will need to invest in some aftermarket decals before I start.