fewr9fkr9595 Posted August 6, 2017 Author Share Posted August 6, 2017 Last few pics of final assembly- u/c and loadout on, keeping it on the skewers as long as possible for ease of handling. Some close ups of pit before canopy goes on. Quite pleased with the telescoping brass canopy strut. Also added yellow warning patches to the wedge. Need to go back and add this detail to previous builds now! Also painted some dots to replicate the studs holding the canvas covers to the coamings. A fiddly addition is the four probes on the cockpit sides. Mig ammo metal steel for these with a silver tip. Lastly is the little etch mirrors from a generic fret. Engine bits being added at last... Final sanding to adjust fit of resin tubes. Completed Teaser! (With RBF tags added to sidewinder caps) Went for wings at max flight sweep position (first build in this configuration) as all others I've done with wings back so far have had them in the oversweep position. RFI in next few days... Thanks for looking. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fewr9fkr9595 Posted August 9, 2017 Author Share Posted August 9, 2017 Tophatters RFI done! The group of 6 so far: Cheers 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fewr9fkr9595 Posted August 11, 2017 Author Share Posted August 11, 2017 Mini update, Some akan metal shade paints turned up in the post. I bought 4 shades to try and cover most tomcat needs. They will be used on the current vf-111 akan gull grey plane and then another future 'I dont know what yet' build that will use akan tps greys. I went for- bright aluminium - for wing leading edges, probes, struts etc. Burnt iron - for afterburners and P&W nozzles. Black steel - for GE engine carbon cowl fairings and sidewinder heads/sparrow fins Gunmetal bright grey - for nose cannon blast panel, GE main nozzles and P&W cowl fairings. More over the weekend... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fewr9fkr9595 Posted August 12, 2017 Author Share Posted August 12, 2017 Answers on a postcard - whats this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyxxx Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 On 12/08/2017 at 6:21 PM, Tony Oliver said: Answers on a postcard - whats this? Decals stripped from the too light VF-111 kite. Looks like you have salvaged the kit. I have found a photo that maybe of use following the club meet chat we had on Friday night. I don't know if you have the book but it is in the colours & markings vol 8, Pacific Coast Squadrons 1974-1987. Unfortunately I cant make next months meet as I think my F-14 references might be of interest to you. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fewr9fkr9595 Posted August 13, 2017 Author Share Posted August 13, 2017 11 hours ago, Tyxxx said: Decals stripped from the too light VF-111 kite. Correct! Couldn't live with it. Currently looks like this, minimal damage. Not sure whether to touch up and do another plane eg the lesser seen red ventral fin sunrays line bird from same decal sheet OR a full respray in a lighter grey and try do this scheme again... (will need to buy another sheet of the decals) currently testing grey contrasts on some plastic card... Quote Yeah thats the pic the fcm decal guy emailed me as the reference he used to make the sheet. Pic seems overexposed and /or washed out because the plane looks like its light grey fs36495 instead of gull grey? So that makes the markings look like light ghost grey hence why they made the sheet like that. So will need to paint the plane in a shade similar if I'm gonna try same scheme again but make it work... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fewr9fkr9595 Posted August 13, 2017 Author Share Posted August 13, 2017 Contrast testing. Greys running left to right are 36495 along the top, gull along the bottom then a 50/50 mix of the two in the centre. Vertically left to right are first the three TPS shades - light ghost grey, dark ghost grey, medium/blue grey, then the darker colours- gunship grey 118, engine grey 081 Close up - Some scrap fincap decal waiting to go on from FCM sundowners sheets 1 & 2. On From the results you can see the plane needs to be painted in a lighter shade to get the contrast with the decals correct for the full low viz 213 carl vinson 1986. The top left corner matches the reference picture. The colours in real life should be like bottom centre - the medium/blue grey on gull grey so the decals are definitely too light. https://photos.smugmug.com/US-Squadrons-USN/US-Navy-Fighter-Squadrons/VF-111-SUNDOWNERS-pictures/i-m478ccc/2/e19385bd/S/F-14USN-VF-111 0045 A taxing Grumman F-14 Tomcat USN 160668 VF-111 SUNDOWNERS USS Carl Vinson 3-1984 NAS Fallon%2C by Michael Grove%2C Sr DONEwt copy-S.jpg The darker decals however look correct for the 212 kitty hawk 1979 scheme of engine grey markings on gull with high viz data. Opinons? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumblestripe Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 I'm no expert on liveries of F-14s but there appears to be a pronounced blue/purple cast to that photograph. Are there any other pictures to support the accuracy of that image? I've used Photoshop to very roughly colour balance the image Hope this helps? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fewr9fkr9595 Posted August 13, 2017 Author Share Posted August 13, 2017 58 minutes ago, Rumblestripe said: I'm no expert on liveries of F-14s but there appears to be a pronounced blue/purple cast to that photograph. Are there any other pictures to support the accuracy of that image? I've used Photoshop to very roughly colour balance the image Hope this helps? Thanks, if anything the plane looks the same dirty white as its wheel hubs now! Whereas common sense says its gull grey... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parip Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 I am "grey color" blind, but grey from the link you posted before (when you were testing different paints) has blue-ish tone to it, somewhere between 307 and 337. Cheers!!! Rade 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gekko_1 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Hi Tony, glad to see that you're not giving up on that VF-111 scheme, which is one of my favourites. I've been obsessed with these early (circa 1978-1988) US Navy and Marine low-vis schemes since I first saw them. From that very poorly reproduced photo I see it as a very rarely painted Light Grey FS. 36495 scheme with Blue Grey FS. 35237 markings. I can see how FCM decals arrived at the light gull grey that they suggest, because that was how it was commonly done at the time, but I think it is Light Grey FS.36495 because it, even from that crappy photo, seems to have a blue-ish cast to it rather than the brown-ish cast of light gull grey. An entire Tomcat being painted in Light Grey FS.36495 seems very unusual, but at that time many unusual schemes were trialled and abandoned with the TPS (Tactical Paint Scheme) coming out as the preferred scheme at the end. So, here we see Blue Grey FS. 35237 and Light Grey FS.36495........................http://www.colorserver.net/showcolor.asp?fs=+35237+36495 Though, as you can see Light Grey FS.36495 and Dark Ghost Grey FS.36320 could work too as a weathered 35237 being represented by 36320? Dark Ghost Grey FS. 36320 over Light Gull Grey FS. 36440 just doesn't look right. To add to your headache there's the thought of scale colour to consider too. Some, like me, who believe scale colour is highly relevant to the hobby, think that by adding 15% white to all 72nd scale colours creates a more realistic representation of the real thing in scale. So, unless FCM printed their Sundowner 213 BuNo. 160668 markings in Light Ghost Grey FS. 36375, the base colour of FS. 36495 lightened by 15% should work with either Blue Grey FS. 35237 or Dark Ghost Grey FS. 36320 printed decals. Also, going off your brand testing efforts (VERY greatly appreciated by those of us with minimal budgets) it looks like the Ammo Mig paint range has the best match for these US Navy/Marine (TPS) colours. Thanks for all the trouble you go to with these Tomcats and the relevant paint and aftermarket bits and pieces that you test out with them. Its both very helpful and fascinating to watch! Cheers Richard. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gekko_1 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Also, just thought I'd add, looking at this photo........................ https://photos.smugmug.com/US-Squadrons-USN/US-Navy-Fighter-Squadrons/VF-111-SUNDOWNERS-pictures/i-m478ccc/2/e19385bd/S/F-14USN-VF-111 0045 A taxing Grumman F-14 Tomcat USN 160668 VF-111 SUNDOWNERS USS Carl Vinson 3-1984 NAS Fallon%2C by Michael Grove%2C Sr DONEwt copy-S.jpg Compare the white of the wheels to the main body colour. This too leads me to believe the Tomcat is painted in overall Light Grey FS.36495. OK, I think I've bothered you enough now........................... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fewr9fkr9595 Posted August 14, 2017 Author Share Posted August 14, 2017 4 hours ago, Gekko_1 said: Also, just thought I'd add, looking at this photo........................ https://photos.smugmug.com/US-Squadrons-USN/US-Navy-Fighter-Squadrons/VF-111-SUNDOWNERS-pictures/i-m478ccc/2/e19385bd/S/F-14USN-VF-111 0045 A taxing Grumman F-14 Tomcat USN 160668 VF-111 SUNDOWNERS USS Carl Vinson 3-1984 NAS Fallon%2C by Michael Grove%2C Sr DONEwt copy-S.jpg Compare the white of the wheels to the main body colour. This too leads me to believe the Tomcat is painted in overall Light Grey FS.36495. OK, I think I've bothered you enough now........................... Nice one mate, yeah that cloud 9 link picture is the one that adds to the conundrum... So we can agree its probably a 36495 plane with markings in dark ghost or faded blue grey. Problem still is that the fcm decals are printed in a colour between light and dark ghost grey. So what I cant understand is that if they assumed the plane was gull grey, why they matched the markings to the light ghost apperance of the picture and not compensated for the washed out gull and didn't print them darker to preserve the contrast against the assumed gull plane? (Hope that makes sense?) On another note, interestingly, on the new furball 1/48th sundowners anthology sheet, they do this 213 low viz, they show and give it as blue grey markings on gull... http://store.spruebrothers.com/product_p/fur48060.htm Love them to do that in 72nd... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 3 hours ago, Tony Oliver said: ... Love them to do that in 72nd... Concur. And a whole lot of other sheets... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gekko_1 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 3 hours ago, Tony Oliver said: Nice one mate, yeah that cloud 9 link picture is the one that adds to the conundrum... So we can agree its probably a 36495 plane with markings in dark ghost or faded blue grey. Problem still is that the fcm decals are printed in a colour between light and dark ghost grey. So what I cant understand is that if they assumed the plane was gull grey, why they matched the markings to the light ghost apperance of the picture and not compensated for the washed out gull and didn't print them darker to preserve the contrast against the assumed gull plane? (Hope that makes sense?) On another note, interestingly, on the new furball 1/48th sundowners anthology sheet, they do this 213 low viz, they show and give it as blue grey markings on gull... http://store.spruebrothers.com/product_p/fur48060.htm Love them to do that in 72nd... As someone who has had to make decal printing choices myself (Gekko Graphics) I can sympathise with FCM's choice. All they had to go off was that one photo in the Detail & Scale book. If it had been me, with only that pic to go off, I would have picked Dark Ghost Grey FS.36320 markings. Its only after seeing the cloud 9 link picture that I realise the markings are in fact Blue Grey FS. 35237. The error is compounded by the fact that they incorrectly state Light Gull Grey FS. 36440 as the colour scheme. Again, I can see how FCM assumed this as the US Navy was transitioning from Light Gull Grey FS. 36440 over white to Light Gull Grey FS. 36440 overall schemes at that time period. This particular Tomcat seems to be unique to the overall Light Grey FS.36495. I can't recall ever seeing another Tomcat painted this way. So again, I understand FCM's choices/errors. As stated before, the best way I see forward for you, if you still want to keep going with this scheme, is to go with the Ammo Mig Light Grey FS.36495 lightened 15% with white. That way the FCM markings should still give you the contrast needed to look right. If you go ahead with it, painted this way, and it works, maybe it would pay to contact FCM and ask them to include a note in any subsequent decal sheets sold alerting fellow modellers of this development? As for Furball's sheet, which I have, based on all of the research done to help with your conundrum, I can only state that Geoff at Furball has himself erred in his otherwise superb research. The mistake being the Light Gull Grey FS. 36440/ Light Grey FS.36495 confusion. Again, Geoff's assumption of Light Gull Grey would be the automatic choice based on painting decisions on US Navy aircraft at that time. Its just that particular Tomcat's unique overall Light Grey FS.36495 paint scheme and crappy photos that has caused the problem. However, with this set the solution is simple, paint the Tomcat Light Grey FS.36495 and one would be fine as the decals seem to be printed in the correct Blue Grey FS. 35237. In fact, I may end up doing just that myself on the new Tamiya Tomcat at some point in time because I really like this particular scheme. Yeah I'd like to see them in 72nd scale too, but decal manufacturers in the States seem to be very hesitant to print decals in this scale. Cheers Richard. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fewr9fkr9595 Posted August 14, 2017 Author Share Posted August 14, 2017 @Gekko_1 Thanks Richard, It is a minefield isn't it! Thats what makes our hobby fun though... I don't currently have Mig Ammo 36495 and the just finished vf14 was done in Ammo colours. However I have ordered a second set of these decals and currently doing a 36495 respray. More details/pics to follow of which paint brand and why over the next few days. I am in contact with Felipe of FCM via email and have kept him updated with the pictures of what I have painted/discovered and tested so far regards the colour and contrasts of this particular cat. He is taking an interest but seems to think I am suggesting that the grey of the markings for 213 Carl Vinson should be like that of engine/gunship grey ones of the 212 Kitty Hawk. I think the language barrier isn't helping? On a side note, I too have some of the 48th tamiya tomcats and one day hope do the low viz and tps options from that anthology sheet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gekko_1 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 10 hours ago, Tony Oliver said: @Gekko_1 Thanks Richard, It is a minefield isn't it! Thats what makes our hobby fun though... I don't currently have Mig Ammo 36495 and the just finished vf14 was done in Ammo colours. However I have ordered a second set of these decals and currently doing a 36495 respray. More details/pics to follow of which paint brand and why over the next few days. I am in contact with Felipe of FCM via email and have kept him updated with the pictures of what I have painted/discovered and tested so far regards the colour and contrasts of this particular cat. He is taking an interest but seems to think I am suggesting that the grey of the markings for 213 Carl Vinson should be like that of engine/gunship grey ones of the 212 Kitty Hawk. I think the language barrier isn't helping? On a side note, I too have some of the 48th tamiya tomcats and one day hope do the low viz and tps options from that anthology sheet Excellent! Looking forward to seeing what you end-up with at the end. Also, love to see what you could do to that Tamiya Tomcat! But don't think about that now! Concentrate man! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fewr9fkr9595 Posted August 14, 2017 Author Share Posted August 14, 2017 So here is the results of todays work... Thanks to Richard @Gekko_1 for the push to go with the FS36495. So I went for Mr finishing surfacer black 1500 & Mr Color lacquer acrylic for the grey. Why? Well I don't have that akan shade to continue this ones theme but also seeing as this plane has already had - primer, colour coat, postshade, blending coat and the two gloss coats (pre & post decals) - I didn't want to build up any more paint and lose details as a waterbased acrylic grey would need another a good prime again because of the current shiny surface then another gloss coat pre decals etc so that would be too much paint with another 3 coats. The Mr products are thin and tough, plus the grey would be smooth and decal ready as micro set & sol resistant. The black was a quick loose coat to unify the surface then go for a black base stylee for a hint of weathering. In the end I went over again with a lightened grey shade, perhaps too much and killed off alot of the blackbase effect as was paranoid that there wouldn't be enough contrast with the decals... I suppose I can darken it with weathering washes and filters etc at the end. Not so easy to lighten something... Enough waffle and onto some pics. Let the fun commence! Some black 1500 on and a few areas worked. There are some 'craters' where the decals were removed, because I had glossed over them. So you can see ghost outlines of their shapes. I did try and sand them down/flush a bit, but hopefully the new ones will go exactly where they were. 36495 Grey going on And this is where it ended up as a very light cat! Need to do bladders and leading edges again etc Lastly a confidence test. (Had some more spare fin cap decal left, didn't use them as colour matched and sprayed the fintops when she was gull grey, will do same again this time) Looks like this will work - Contrast is good! Now I just have to wait for the postman to turn up with the new decals tomorrow morning! Want to get her done by the end of the week before I have to go back to work... Thanks for looking in and putting up with all this craziness! 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gekko_1 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Yep, so far so good. Contrast good......................................... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fewr9fkr9595 Posted August 15, 2017 Author Share Posted August 15, 2017 Not much to say really so I'll let the pics do the talking. Another set! Fincap, the 13, and front part removed. Leading edge trimmed to panel line. Note offcut in tray. Back edge trimmed and around the base to a natural join to make colour matching & spraying easier Fincaps and bases will be sprayed tonight once markings properly dried! Then the 13 can be added and the rest of the plane decalled @Andrew note the foam wrapped skewers up its chuffs. All in this thread so far have had this treatment. Not had a mishap yet touch wood. (Reaches for head) In fact I use it on most things, eg the engine space on a spitfre or 109 gets stuffed with foam then a skewer pierced into it etc. Hope this helps mate! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gekko_1 Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Looking pretty damn good to me Tony! You must be greatly relieved! So glad you didn't give up on this one. Richard. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fewr9fkr9595 Posted August 15, 2017 Author Share Posted August 15, 2017 Yeah! Relieved indeed. Sent these pics to FCM decals and they agree too. He mentioned that future sheets would perhaps be printed more towards FS35237. That would be ideal for anyone else that wants to build this bird... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Very nicely done, Tony. As Richard says, it's a good thing that you persevered. Thanks also for the pointer/reminder about your holding apparati; I now remember being very impressed with your demonstration of the technique on the Spitfire builds, but failed to make the logical connection to its applicability to my current builds ... oh, the embarrassment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fewr9fkr9595 Posted August 16, 2017 Author Share Posted August 16, 2017 7 hours ago, Andrew said: I now remember being very impressed with your demonstration of the technique on the Spitfire builds, There's another thing I need to be getting on with! Not that I needed reminding, they are always staring at me from the bottom corner of the cabinet when I glance over... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fewr9fkr9595 Posted August 16, 2017 Author Share Posted August 16, 2017 Hi folks, fin caps and bases done in straight 307 mr color dark ghost grey which looks close enough. On another note, tune in here again tomorrow night for what may be a UK exclusive and remember where you saw it first 😉 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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