Spanish Civil War GB II 33 and STILL growing!

[TonyTiger66]

Really lovely stuff Sarge. Thanks for putting that on here.

Jason is right, so much of this is very art-deco. The Lockheed Vega/Delta and parasol wing PWS 10, Fokker passenger, Douglas DC-2, Caudron Goeland and Dewoitine aircraft exemplify this.

Many photographs of 'Alas Rojas' show support vehicles alongside, Lancia, FIAT, even Ford. In terms of the Legion Condor, Krupp feature heavily. The possibility for dioramas is wonderful.

Thanks for all your contributions folks

Best regards

Tony

[TonyTiger66]

Oooh. For those wishing to do a SCW PzKpfw. I Ausf A or B, I forgot to mention Bison Decals; an excellent sheet is available. They also do a CV-33/35 sheet in 1/35

TT

[Artie]

As far a soft skinned vehicles goes, any civil car/lorry/van of that era would fit.....Lots of civilian vehicles were pressed into service by both the militians and the army.

The standard lorry then in the spanish army were the Ford AA/AAA and the Chevrolet and Studebaker 1.5tons.......apart from them, lots of their russian copies ZIL, GAZ, etc,,,were sent by the soviets.

Both the german and italian forces brought their own vehicles....Krupp, Henschel, Horch, Opel, Mercedes......Fiat, Lancia, Alfa Romeo...almost any vehicle you could think about....

The locally built armoured vehicles deserve a chapter apart. No specific pattern at all....they were makeshift builts...Hispano Suiza and other factories (Sadurni, Bilbao, UNL, Trubia... ) did build some elaborated designs wich, unfortunately, didn't survive the war...

Arturo, from a too hot Tenerife...

Edited July 24, 2016 by Artie

[Artie]

Well, after an hour looking for a kit wich would "switch my mojo on", I've finally decided my entry for this GB....

Wich will be built to represent this one:

It's the old Mirage kit in 1/48 scale.....it's been hidden in my stash for decades, and think it's time to give it a chance. Not a bad looking kit, but very basic and poorly detailed..nothing a few bits of lead wire and evergreen stripes won't solve. Some ugly sink marks around the nose area, basic cockpit detail, two wheels wich resemble a pair of doughnuts and some flash all over the kit....

I must admit a feel lazy, and this simple colour scheme will be easy to paint. I'll set a two weeks deadline for finishing this kit.

I think it's a nice SCW subject, with not so much information and no photographic support.

During the SCW, both contenders received lots of planes from a variety of sources, sometimes (well, MOST of the imes), via arms traffikers or dummy corporations, from most european countries. Despite local arms embargoes, those companies found their ways to finally send the "goods" to Spain.

This nimble observation/sports plane actually came from Portugal, so we can guess how it came there. No military or civilian records have been kept, and the only "polish plane with Gipsy engine and parasol wing" wich survided the war was beyond repair and scrapped.

Cheers....

Arturo

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Conveniently available, two to the box: http://www.minairons.eu/en/1-72-scale-vehicles-spanish-civil-war/245-1-72-bilbao-afv-boxed-set-8436545320037.html

[Antoine]

Oooh. For those wishing to do a SCW PzKpfw. I Ausf A or B, I forgot to mention Bison Decals; an excellent sheet is available. They also do a CV-33/35 sheet in 1/35

TT

Bison is now Star decals, and the range of this "new" brand has three SCW sheets.

[AndyC]

Add me to the list please!

[TonyTiger66]

Add me to the list please!

Yay! welcome on board Andy that makes it 11 !

Thanks chaps for the great information on vehicles. I hadn't realised the Soviets had taken trucks over; there are lots of models of GAZ and ZIS trucks out there in all the popular scales.

I had forgotten to mention Steelwork models:

http://www.steelwork-models.de

They have lots of detail sets for SCW aircraft and a nice set of vehicles , along with a couple of very nice SCW aircraft kits. They do some good SCW decals too.

It's worth looking at the gallery of built models; many are SCW and beautiful, unusual subjects very well made -a great source of inspiration

I can recommend them, the service is excellent and items are packed extremely safely; superb customer service.

The RWD 8 is a great subject Artie. It's one of my favourite aircraft. I recently bought the quite new IBG kit in 1/72. It's a nice kit and for those that want to really go to town on it, Arma Hobby do highly detailed resin replacement wings, cowls and so on.

1/48 will produce a very attractive parasol plane. Once, long ago, I read a little about this almost mythical RWD 8. There was even thought to be a photo of it which I saw. It was in silver/aluminium dope finish, in a clearing. It had no markings at all, not even Portugese. It looked quite 'rough', very much like a war courier plane would be.

I can't find this information any more, it was on a Spanish website in around 2005. There is also a picture of an aircraft again in silver, in what appears to be North Africa, but I couldn't be sure if it's the same RWD 8 as the one in the clearing.

Broplan do a fairly easy to make Vacform of the RWD 13 with SCW decals included. The Aviation Megastore in the Netherlands and another store in France (can't remember the name at the moment) sell them. Broplan also do a PWS 10, again a nice Vacform in 1/72.

Ardpol also do a resin PWS 10, it is substantially more costly than the Broplan, but a lovely kit

For those wanting a budget build then Tiger Moths are an excellent choice (eg Airfix), and AZ even do a SCW specific kit.

For a challenge beyond measure; the Roden He-111 B,C and E. Ask me how I know !

Thanks all and thanks for all the information, we're getting a nice reference base here

Best regards

Tony

Edited for spelling

[Artie]

For a challenge beyond measure; the Roden He-111 B,C and E. Ask me how I know !

Roden's He-111-B is, IMHO, the WORST kit I've ever tried to build.....after a lot of work wth the interior, the fuselage halves didn't close....all that work completely ruined. I threw away the kit and didn't even look back.....

Regarding the soviet military support to the republican Spain, they sent no less than 400 airplanes, including fighters, bombers and some trainers. Also, they sent lots of tanks and lorries, as well as "military advisors". Needless to say, the plan was convering Spain into a soviet republic, with the aid of local political parties such as the communist and the socialists.... :shutup: :shutup: .

Just a funny note: the cirylic letters for ZIS are 3HC, wich led the spanish soldiers to give a despective nickname to those lorries. They were called "3 Hermanos Comunistas" (3 Communist Brothers). All that russian material was soon pressed into service by the winners, but they were so unreliable and poorly built that didn't last long.

I'd like to build a 1/48 scale RWD 13, but I'm afraid the only chance is a very rare resin kit, can't remember the brand.....

Cheers

Edited July 24, 2016 by Artie

[TonyTiger66]

That's great information and history Artie. I love the ЗНС
Any RWD 13 would be good
I've toyed (only in my mind) with the idea of a ZTS Micro/Masterbox RWD 6 cabin and cowl somehow spliced to a Broplan RWD 12 rear fuselage, wings and empennage. Maybe it could work?

For those that haven't been there yet, this website is great for SCW aviation fans:
http://bioold.science.ku.dk/drnash/model/Spain/index.html

In addition to trying to cover *every* aircraft type involved, there is, e.g. a great section on the Prototype Bf-109s in Spain and the (A?), B, C, D and E models.

The profiles are a little small, but they're better than nothing

The Roden Heinkel He-111 B, C and E are indeed mighty challenges. I've been working on a 'B' for a year Artie. The only way I can deal with it is to drag it out of the drawer of doom and do some more, endless, sanding and filing, then put it away again. Nothing fits, at all, wings top to bottom, wings to fuselage, bomb bay to fuselage to wings, cowls to wings, undercarriage bays, main transparencies, the interior to the fuselage. Nope. None of those fit each other.

The decals are also well known for self destructing in contact with water

Nevertheless, with a lot of work and a knowledge of where to file, cut, sand and fill, they can be made into a very attractive and unusual model. If anyone volunteers to make one for the group build, I'll send a guide to what to do (that I have learned from others) to get it together, and a list of suppliers of industrial belt sanding machines

The Revell P-36 Peashooter is a much more fun build!

The next person to join, as they will make it a dozen, qualifies for the prize of a giant omelette!
It might not be a Spanish omelette, but it's worth joining for!

Best regards
Tony

[stevehed]

Count me in too. After WW1 this is my other passion. Equipment ranges from WW1 types through to active participants in WW2. A wonderful period to model.

Regards, Steve

[Botan]

That's great information and history Artie. I love the ЗНС

Any RWD 13 would be good

I've toyed (only in my mind) with the idea of a ZTS Micro/Masterbox RWD 6 cabin and cowl somehow spliced to a Broplan RWD 12 rear fuselage, wings and empennage. Maybe it could work?

[...]

Best regards

Tony

I'm not sure it make a point. Surely currently the best way in 1/72 is to buy a resin one from Ardpol.

[Artie]

One of the most beautiful lorries to see active service during the SCW, and wich soldiered well up until the early sixties in the Spanish Army, was the Ford V8.

Spain received lots of american lorries, GMC, Chevrolet, Ford, Studebaker.....they were famous for their reliability and spares availability. The Ford V8 is a beautiful machine, almost art decó design, with flowing body lines and powerful engine. The traditional spanish hangup of giving nicknames to every vehicle, plane, etc...gave this lorry a funny name: They were called "maría de la O" (Mary of the O), after a popular song's title. The oval shaped grille led to various nicknames (some of them somehow inopportune).

[Artie]

Another kind of "strange", locally built vehicles, were the so called "Tiznaos" (smudged)....Local workshops used to build armoured cars using whatever they found. Most usual donors were Ford, Chevy or any other kind of lorries, but sometimes, they used buses or tractors as donor vehicles, using an stripped chasis as a basis for a makeshift "tank"......well, a friend of mine call them "Diesel punk at its best"...

This pic below shows a nice example of "art decó" design.....unfortunately, they used an Hispano Suiza as a donor car.....

Edited July 28, 2016 by Artie

[TonyTiger66]

I'm not sure it make a point. Surely currently the best way in 1/72 is to buy a resin one from Ardpol.

Hi Botan, Yes this is my mistake. Thank you for the gentle prod .

Ardpol indeed make a resin RWD 13. I have not made it. Some have said it is a little inaccurate, I don't know if this is the case. The Broplan one is very nice.

I made a mistake; meant to write about making an RWD 9.

http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww15/o/1574/173/0

To make an RWD 9 it may be possible to take the BroPlan or Ardpol RWD 13 and then attach the front of a ZTS Mikro/Masterbox RWD 6. It may or may not be possible - I haven't seen it done. Other modifications would be needed but it could be fun to try

There is a nice photograph of a rudder of the SCW RWD 9 that still exists. I can't find it on the internet right now, but it is in colour.

Would you like to join us Botan? You would qualify for the free omelette

Best regards

Tony

Oops - I just noticed someone else qualifies for the omelette! It would still be nice to have your along

TT

[TonyTiger66]

Count me in too. After WW1 this is my other passion. Equipment ranges from WW1 types through to active participants in WW2. A wonderful period to model.

Regards, Steve

Hi Steve it's great to have you along .

It is a great period to model, very varied and rich in style and content. The WWI Renault tanks are a point in case, and other artillery spans the two major world conflicts.

I'm afraid that as the 'Dozen" member, you qualify for the omelette!

Here it is:

I can't yet use the internet to send food as a zip file, but here is the recipe to make this lovely (and very healthy) omelette/tortilla:

http://www.wheyless.com.au/recipe/quick-spanish-omelette

I need to eat more stuff like this, my waistline is rapidly gaining its own gravitational force !

Best regards and happy eating

Tony

[Botan]

Hi Botan, Yes this is my mistake. Thank you for the gentle prod .

Ardpol indeed make a resin RWD 13. I have not made it. Some have said it is a little inaccurate, I don't know if this is the case. The Broplan one is very nice.

I made a mistake; meant to write about making an RWD 9.

http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww15/o/1574/173/0

To make an RWD 9 it may be possible to take the BroPlan or Ardpol RWD 13 and then attach the front of a ZTS Mikro/Masterbox RWD 6. It may or may not be possible - I haven't seen it done. Other modifications would be needed but it could be fun to try

There is a nice photograph of a rudder of the SCW RWD 9 that still exists. I can't find it on the internet right now, but it is in colour.

Would you like to join us Botan? You would qualify for the free omelette

Best regards

Tony

I quickly compared a RWD-6, 9 and plans, and it seems to be quite difficult. Looks like wings and other parts were not simply copied, but improved, and so, changed. RWD-6 and -9 had different engines for example.

Anyway, there is a hope RWD-9 may appear some day: LINK

By the way, isn't a RWD-8 in Spain a myth? I remember once I was researching for it and found it wasn't there, but only some rumours. SCW had a lot of those.

About my participation...

ICM Bf 109E-3 made as a E-1 with Legion Condor decals from RPM Bf-109E-1 will do.

[TonyTiger66]

Hi Botan, it's great to have you on board, welcome!

It would be nice if IBG made those kits. I recently bought their RWD 8. It wasn't quite the improvement over the ZTS Mikro/Masterbox kit I expected. Luckily Armo produce replacement parts for the kit. If all the replacement parts are purchased, not much of the original is left!

I will just replace the wing and leave it at that.

Yes, the RWD 8 in Spain may well be s myth. When I looked into it nearly 10 years ago I could find no solid proof and only a picture of an unmarked RWD 8 in a clearing, in very poor condition. It could have been anywhere.

Masterbox have released a kit with SCW markings, but it is pretty meaningless, very much a 'perhaps',

As you say, so many myths. The MB 200 is an interesting one. After many years I've got to the point where I think it's ok to model them as we just will never know, so much clandestine activity occurred. A picture of a Farman emerged quite recently (maybe a 430?) and that was, until then in the 'mythical' realm.

Let's hope a few more such pictures emerge to enthuse us.

An E-1 is certainly not mythical and most welcome

Best regards

Tony

[Botan]

IBG put me in difficult position, I was planning to built several RWD-8...

That company is Mastercraft or now Mistercraft, but it is rather a Mastercrap. Once I bought their RWD-8 for Estonian decals to find out, that those are useless, much smaller than on real plane. Putting differences between licence built planes and regular ones aside.

Edited August 1, 2016 by Botan

[JWM]

Hi

A bit by chance I run over this topic today. Surely I am in! - andI was in since late mid-1970s, when I was teenager.

As perhaps some of you noticed I am interesting in modelling SCW machines as to some kind of a prologue to WWII. During last two two years I posted on RFI majority of content of my shelfs with SCW models - I belive more than 30 types. Among them was also discussed above PWS-10: http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234966139-pws-10-polish-fighter-from-spanish-war-broplan-vacu-172/

Some example of not mentioned yet types:

Airspeed Envoy:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234969101-airspeed-envoy-scratch-conversion-from-pavla-oxford-172/

DH 89

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234966259-de-haviland-dh-89-m-dragon-rapide-spanish-civil-war-bomber-heller-172-conv/

Miles Speed Hawk

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234968441-miles-speed-six-172-spanish-civil-war/

Miles Falcon

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234966175-miles-falcon-six-scratch-conversion-of-frog-miles-magister/

Letov S 231

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234966390-letov-s231-spanish-republican-kovozavody-172/

Northrop Gamma 2D

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234965863-northrop-gamma-2d-spanish-civil-war-williams-bros-conv/

It is very likely that I will do some next SCW machine in 2017...

Tony - Very good initiative, congratulations and regards

Jerzy-Wojtek

Edited August 4, 2016 by JWM

[TonyTiger66]

One of the most beautiful lorries to see active service during the SCW, and wich soldiered well up until the early sixties in the Spanish Army, was the Ford V8.

Spain received lots of american lorries, GMC, Chevrolet, Ford, Studebaker.....they were famous for their reliability and spares availability. The Ford V8 is a beautiful machine, almost art decó design, with flowing body lines and powerful engine. The traditional spanish hangup of giving nicknames to every vehicle, plane, etc...gave this lorry a funny name: They were called "maría de la O" (Mary of the O), after a popular song's title. The oval shaped grille led to various nicknames (some of them somehow inopportune).

Thanks for posting this information and these superb photographs Artie; I've never seen these pictures before.

Were the Ford V8's with this 'o' radiator in service during the SCW? They are certainly a superb, as you say, almost art-deco design. It would be lovely to model one.

Looking back at the German soft skinned vehicles, the manufacturer 'Mac' models make some nice ones with SCW decals straight OOB. I have and can recommend this one:

http://www.mackits.cz/model-kits.php?akce=model&nazev=krupp-l3h163-kfz-354&id=40

A browse around their pages will show all kinds of other things attractive to ( certain feline-like) hobbyists .

Best regards

Tony

[TonyTiger66]

Hi

A bit by chance I run over this topic today. Surely I am in! - andI was in since late mid-1970s, when I was teenager.

As perhaps some of you noticed I am interesting in modelling SCW machines as to some kind of a prologue to WWII. During last two two years I posted on RFI majority of content of my shelfs with SCW models - I belive more than 30 types. Among them was also discussed above PWS-10: http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234966139-pws-10-polish-fighter-from-spanish-war-broplan-vacu-172/

Some example of not mentioned yet types:

Airspeed Envoy:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234969101-airspeed-envoy-scratch-conversion-from-pavla-oxford-172/

DH 89

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234966259-de-haviland-dh-89-m-dragon-rapide-spanish-civil-war-bomber-heller-172-conv/

Miles Speed Hawk

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234968441-miles-speed-six-172-spanish-civil-war/

Miles Falcon

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234966175-miles-falcon-six-scratch-conversion-of-frog-miles-magister/

Letov S 231

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234966390-letov-s231-spanish-republican-kovozavody-172/

Northrop Gamma 2D

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234965863-northrop-gamma-2d-spanish-civil-war-williams-bros-conv/

It is very likely that I will do some next SCW machine in 2017...

Tony - Very good initiative, congratulations and regards

Jerzy-Wojtek

Hi Jerzy-Wojtek! At last you found it

I had read the rules on trying to get people to join GB's and realised I couldn't try to 'market' it elsewhere in the forum. Given your long standing interest and considerable stash I was sure you would be interested, welcome on board .

I hope we can keep the momentum up here, it's nice and steady and I think this can happen.

There's a great potential co-host here that seems to know about Shakespeare's penchant for beer. Can't imagine who it is

I'll add you to the list JWM

Nearly half way!

Best regards

Tony

[SleeperService]

While stash mining I came across the Eduard Dual Boxing I-16 so I'd very much like to join with one of them.

Given the amount of rubbish on the web are there any pitfalls with the SCW schemes as offered? I will build the other as the last Spanish scheme so that's well outside the GB scope.

[JWM]

Some remarks on RWD topic - here in net I found nicely done RWD-9 in SCW camo, it is said that it was converted from RWD-6 (what is in principle not so natural - they were similar but RWD-9 was larger): http://www.network54.com/Forum/615009/thread/1371374836/RWD-9+la+maqueta+inexistente

It is surely "doable" from RWD-13 kit, since the latest was in fact a commercialised in a bit simplified version of much more powerful RWD-9, which was designed just to take part in Challange competition (which he won, as you know).

RWD 13 can be done in Nacionalists markings (I made mine Broplan as Romanian - was already on RFI). BTW - recently there was a talk here on BM in one thread (was it one on RWD-5 in RFI?) about role of RWD 13 in Israel war for independence (1948) - this was the first airplane used on Israel side.

There are three kits of RWD-13 in 1/72 produced in Poland - vacu by Broplan, resin by Ardpol and a short run injection one by Aster. And one in 1/48. The models done from Ardpol looks the best, but perhaps this is also a question of modeller...

Best regards

J-W

[JWM]

Given the amount of rubbish on the web are there any pitfalls with the SCW schemes as offered?

The Dannish page (link above in post #7) is very useful since it make order in what was actually used in SCW and what not. There are also info on modelling include conversions etc.

I am digging for photos just by googling, for profiles very useful is Russian Wing Palette and obviously some Spanish like Aeronet. In googling used not only English - for example try phrases like "cazas guerra civil" (fighters of civil war) etc...

Regards

J-w