Alclad Polished alum. - rubs off!

[AdriaN (MLT)]

I've just spray my second model using alclad polished aluminum on an acylic black base and when I rubbed off, with tissue, the loose aluminum particles which seemed to cover the model, it also seemed the rub off the freshly painted paint leaving behind black stains. Contact with my fingers also seemed to remove the paint leaving behind black finger stains. This happened on both models. On the first model I made the mistake of masking.

I immediately stopped handling and brushed on a coating of klear to seal it all in. It seemed to solve this problem.

I always thought alclad paint didn't need gloss coating after paint. They are very weak by the looks of it!!

Take this as a lesson and varnish your alclad with least handling.

Edited May 31, 2016 by AdriaN (MLT)

[dfqweofekwpeweiop4]

That hasn't happened with the ordinary Aluminium Alclad, perhaps it's only the really shiny stuff that has this problem?

thanks

Mike

Edited May 31, 2016 by Mikemx

[Mike]

I've had this happen before, and it gets a tad annoying. It's either a case of the paint "ageing", or a bad batch, as although the high gloss colours aren't as rugged as the other shades, they're not usually this weak. I've also had problems with a lot of shades becoming gritty over time, and it seems that keeping them in stock is not a good idea, as if you don't use them in a year or two, they go "off". I recently strained a bottle, and was left with the sludge below. I was wondering whether it's a reaction the more recent "lead" balls that they use now (after people smashed bottles with the old ball bearings), or just that the paint doesn't age well. It could rapidly ruin your stash of Alclads if it's an age thing

[little-cars]

Alclad did quote a shelf life of five years when I asked then years ago. Nor sure if this is still the case.

Paul

[AdriaN (MLT)]

I've had this happen before, and it gets a tad annoying. It's either a case of the paint "ageing", or a bad batch, as although the high gloss colours aren't as rugged as the other shades, they're not usually this weak. I've also had problems with a lot of shades becoming gritty over time, and it seems that keeping them in stock is not a good idea, as if you don't use them in a year or two, they go "off". I recently strained a bottle, and was left with the sludge below. I was wondering whether it's a reaction the more recent "lead" balls that they use now (after people smashed bottles with the old ball bearings), or just that the paint doesn't age well. It could rapidly ruin your stash of Alclads if it's an age thing

My very first polished aluminum, which i bought in 2010, which is 3/4ths empty, in fact, turned all sludgy! even after shaking it. it just falls to the bottom. the aircraft which i painted last week was from a new bottle and it mixed very well. it could be a shelf life problem or it just happens when its almost finished, like many paints do!

Ive never had any problems with dark aluminum rubbing off.

Edited May 31, 2016 by AdriaN (MLT)

[mirageiv]

I've had problems with Alclad Polished aluminium rubbing off even with a nice fresh bottle that sprayed very well. It came off during handling for a few days after it was sprayed so I left the model alone for two weeks or so. After this long period to cure it was bulletproof and would not rub off at all, even if I scrubbed it really hard. I'm not sure why but I guess it was either that the gloss black base took longer to cure underneath or it takes a few weeks for Alclad high shine finishes to become really tough. This has worked for me on subsequent models, just leave it alone for a few weeks then come back to it.

Having said that I have some Airframe aluminium that just rubs off even years since I painted it . Maybe that was a rubbish bottle like your bottle of polished aluminium.

David.

[ICMF]

Read thread title; immediately thought "I bet he applied it over an acrylic base, not an enamel". Wasn't disappointed.

Alclad make two entirely different kinds of paint. Their two product lines have different chemistry, and should not be handled the same way. The 'hi shine' alclad paints are the reflective, mirror-like paints; 'regular' alclad paints are the standard, metallic colours.

'Regular' alclad metallic paints are lacquer based, and should be applied over a smooth, acrylic lacquer primer to avoid crazing or melting styrene. Alclad recommend their own microfiller/primers (grey, black or white), Tamiya spray primer, Mr. Surfacer or other similar automotive primers for this. The primer should be smooth; it doesn't have to be glossy, and it doesn't have to be black - you just need a smooth barrier between the (hot) Alclad and the (meltable) plastic. These paints are robust because they are lacquers, which allows them to 'bite' into the primer underneath.

'Hi Shine' alclad paints are alcohol based, IIRC, and should be applied over a high gloss, ENAMEL base to maximize reflectivity and promote adhesion. Alclad recommend their 'gloss black base', 'clear base' or any hobby enamel paint. The slightly tacky surface of gloss enamels will help hold the thin film of metallic pigments on the surface; a hard, un-sticky surface won't hold the pigment, and it will simply rub off. The smoother and more mirror-like your gloss enamel, the smoother and more mirror-like your metal will look because the paints do not etch or bite into the underlying surface, but simply lay on top. And, while a black base coat will give you the deepest shine, you do not have to use a gloss black base - you can adjust the tone of the metal by base coating with different colours.

TL;DR: use a smooth, acrylic lacquer primer for regular alclad; use a gloss hobby enamel for hi shine alclad.

[AdriaN (MLT)]

Read thread title; immediately thought "I bet he applied it over an acrylic base, not an enamel". Wasn't disappointed.

Alclad make two entirely different kinds of paint. Their two product lines have different chemistry, and should not be handled the same way. The 'hi shine' alclad paints are the reflective, mirror-like paints; 'regular' alclad paints are the standard, metallic colours.

'Regular' alclad metallic paints are lacquer based, and should be applied over a smooth, acrylic lacquer primer to avoid crazing or melting styrene. Alclad recommend their own microfiller/primers (grey, black or white), Tamiya spray primer, Mr. Surfacer or other similar automotive primers for this. The primer should be smooth; it doesn't have to be glossy, and it doesn't have to be black - you just need a smooth barrier between the (hot) Alclad and the (meltable) plastic. These paints are robust because they are lacquers, which allows them to 'bite' into the primer underneath.

'Hi Shine' alclad paints are alcohol based, IIRC, and should be applied over a high gloss, ENAMEL base to maximize reflectivity and promote adhesion. Alclad recommend their 'gloss black base', 'clear base' or any hobby enamel paint. The slightly tacky surface of gloss enamels will help hold the thin film of metallic pigments on the surface; a hard, un-sticky surface won't hold the pigment, and it will simply rub off. The smoother and more mirror-like your gloss enamel, the smoother and more mirror-like your metal will look because the paints do not etch or bite into the underlying surface, but simply lay on top. And, while a black base coat will give you the deepest shine, you do not have to use a gloss black base - you can adjust the tone of the metal by base coating with different colours.

TL;DR: use a smooth, acrylic lacquer primer for regular alclad; use a gloss hobby enamel for hi shine alclad.

thank you for this info!

Next time i will use ENAMEL as a primer.

Always thought the hi-shine was lacquer based. maybe that's why i can clean these paints using revells aqua clean (alcohol based).

Ive never used the ordinary alclads..

[ICMF]

Ive never used the ordinary alclads..

You probably have. FWIW Alclad only makes six 'high shine' paints (discounting the lexan stuff):

ALC-105 POLISHED ALUMINIUM

ALC-107 CHROME FOR PLASTIC

ALC-109 POLISHED BRASS

ALC-115 STAINLESS STEEL

ALC-118 GOLD TITANIUM

ALC-119 AIRFRAME ALUMINIUM

The other 15-odd Alclad paints are 'regular' paints - they're metallic, they look like metal, but they aren't reflective (mirror-like).

[caterhamnut]

Thank you ICMF for this very clear, very helpful post!

Just came on here on the off-chance someone might be able to answer and all lad question before I spray an FW16 engine block - your answers above answer perfectly, and some - I was not aware of the differences between the all lad paints, and thanks for listing!

[Mike]

That's good to know. Might even be worth labelling your collection to remind yourself which ones need the enamels.

Anyone had any feedback about sludgy Alclads? I've had it happen with bottles that are almost full before now. The one I demonstrated in the pic was over half full

[AdriaN (MLT)]

That's good to know. Might even be worth labelling your collection to remind yourself which ones need the enamels.

Anyone had any feedback about sludgy Alclads? I've had it happen with bottles that are almost full before now. The one I demonstrated in the pic was over half full

i have a 3/4ths empty alclad which turned to sludge