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Building/Painting/Masking Tutorial: Heller Citroen 15 CV


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David, I think your plan is good, however I think hand painting the fine lines using strips of masking tape is doomed! You will almost certainly get paint creeping under the tape with a brush. Airbrushing may get better results. I would suggest instead cutting very fine strips from chrome Bare Metal Foil (bmf). This may be another new product for you, so look it up for tutorials. Quite handy for detail work and repairing chromed parts! :)

Thanks for the advice….

Is this the product in question: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Metal-Sheet-Bright-Chrome-Bare-Metal/dp/B017CEMOQY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1462648518&sr=8-2&keywords=bare+metal+foil

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That's it David, but insane Amazon prices!

This is more like it:

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/BARE-METAL-FOIL-Ultra-Chrome-self-adhesive-/191844806427?nav=SEARCH

Placing it when cut into very thin strips may drive you insane, but the results will be worth it! It's self adhesive, so when cut it will have to be gently peeled off the backing using a scalpel edge to lift it. My method would be to locate one end only on the dash and then position other end when the strip is straight and flat and rub down.

If you want to go nuts you could lightly place a square of it over all the lines then very gently rub down - only enough to see the line profiles. Then, using a secured straight edge, cut the foil into strips...remove foil between strips. Practice with offcuts first - you will nail it and the rewards are great! ;-)

Edited by vontrips
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lots of good advice given here david, all the persons who have added to this thread have lots of experience. you will have to try things as recommended as you are doing, and eventually settle on the mix of processes which suit you and your various applications. may i just add my latest thoughts. i have been modelling for almost 50 years, i started with brush painting with humbrol enamels. i have used rattle cans for years. i find rattle can primer requires a lot of clean up ( i do lots of modifications/ filling etc ) however the best in my opinion is halfords. i have also used halfords rattles for painting big parts/ brush for smaller bits. i have for years decanted halfords cans and airbrushed them, but find it an unstable process and have ended up stripping back many bodies. i have now progressed to using my airbrushes for virtually everything i paint. primer i use alclad grey and white. i think zero is a godsend for colours, very easy to spray and virtually impossible to get it to run, but find the 2 pack clear a tad too shiny for my application. i now use a mix of tamiya and gunze for smaller bits, gunze blacks and alume i think are very good, aclad for metal finishes. i use several airbrushes, bigger needle size for a bigger area. i find that air pressures/ paint viscosity are vital to successful spraying plus ambient temperature/humidity can play its part. i have also found that airbrushing is a bit like golf, you may think one day you have got it cracked, next day will be like you have never used it before. the main thing is to enjoy your hobby. good luck.

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That's it David, but insane Amazon prices!

This is more like it:

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/BARE-METAL-FOIL-Ultra-Chrome-self-adhesive-/191844806427?nav=SEARCH

Can't believe the difference in price. Criminal!!!

Just ordered from ebay.

John: can you have a look at my "hairy pieces" above? I guess I need IPA to get it all off. Is that correct?

And do you agree that this is the effect of paint drying before reaching the piece? It strange, because I didn't have this problem with a different color from the same brand (zero-paints).

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lots of good advice given here david, all the persons who have added to this thread have lots of experience. you will have to try things as recommended as you are doing, and eventually settle on the mix of processes which suit you and your various applications. may i just add my latest thoughts. i have been modelling for almost 50 years, i started with brush painting with humbrol enamels. i have used rattle cans for years. i find rattle can primer requires a lot of clean up ( i do lots of modifications/ filling etc ) however the best in my opinion is halfords. i have also used halfords rattles for painting big parts/ brush for smaller bits. i have for years decanted halfords cans and airbrushed them, but find it an unstable process and have ended up stripping back many bodies. i have now progressed to using my airbrushes for virtually everything i paint. primer i use alclad grey and white. i think zero is a godsend for colours, very easy to spray and virtually impossible to get it to run, but find the 2 pack clear a tad too shiny for my application. i now use a mix of tamiya and gunze for smaller bits, gunze blacks and alume i think are very good, aclad for metal finishes. i use several airbrushes, bigger needle size for a bigger area. i find that air pressures/ paint viscosity are vital to successful spraying plus ambient temperature/humidity can play its part. i have also found that airbrushing is a bit like golf, you may think one day you have got it cracked, next day will be like you have never used it before. the main thing is to enjoy your hobby. good luck.

More great advice…. many thanks.

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Can't believe the difference in price. Criminal!!!

Just ordered from ebay.

John: can you have a look at my "hairy pieces" above? I guess I need IPA to get it all off. Is that correct?

And do you agree that this is the effect of paint drying before reaching the piece? It strange, because I didn't have this problem with a different color from the same brand (zero-paints).

Difficult to tell from that picture! Zero paints are airbrush ready, so I assume you've not used a thinner? My guess would be spraying too far from the surface and possibly too high a pressure. Knowing your location it may be a tad too warm for spraying too? All these issues will cause the paint to dry before it hits the surface, giving a powdery surface. Very similar to overspray, you'll sometimes get this spraying into corners as the airflow (and paint) bounces back on itself. Tip...spray corners first!!! Check out your engine pic and you'll see the paint is thin in the recesses - building up paint in the corners will even this out.

Recommendations; note distances, air pressure and paint mix/flow - write them down and save them. It's part of the learning curve and will help you in the future! How? Those kinds of settings are what I use for creating suede/Alcantara effects for interior upholstery! Have a good look at the paint surface and memorize it. Modellers mix paint with microbaloons to get this effect and it never looks scale.

Lastly, strip it and repeat! ;-)

Edited by vontrips
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Difficult to tell from that picture! Zero paints are airbrush ready, so I assume you've not used a thinner? My guess would be spraying too far from the surface and possibly too high a pressure. Knowing your location it may be a tad too warm for spraying too? All these issues will cause the paint to dry before it hits the surface, giving a powdery surface. Very similar to overspray, you'll sometimes get this spraying into corners as the airflow (and paint) bounces back on itself. Tip...spray corners first!!! Check out your engine pic and you'll see the paint is thin in the recesses - building up paint in the corners will even this out.

Recommendations; note distances, air pressure and paint mix/flow - write them down and save them. It's part of the learning curve and will help you in the future! How? Those kinds of settings are what I use for creating suede/Alcantara effects for interior upholstery! Have a good look at the paint surface and memorize it. Modellers mix paint with microbaloons to get this effect and it never looks scale.

Lastly, strip it and repeat! ;-)

Quality feedback, John. As usual… Many thanks.

It's not too warm here. I suspect it's due to a combination of air pressure and distance. I still find it puzzling that I had this effect with the gloss black, but not with the brunswick green, both from the zero-paint. I used 30 psi for both colors, and believe was at more or less the same distance. It really is like golf: you think you did exactly the same thing, but one day you hit a 250 drive down the middle and the next a big slice into the woods….

And the effect does indeed look like suede/alcantara!!!! This is precisely what I've got.

Now the dirty business of stripping. Unfortunately, I ran out of IPA. Well have to fetch some at the pharmacist.

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Drop the pressure down 20 psi, get nearer to the surface, maybe not so much paint and test on those plastic spoons, bits of sprue etc.

As for the golf analogy; every golf day ends in bad results for me!

Edited by vontrips
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But remember that all zero paints to my knowledge require a clear coat to achieve a gloss look. Something to bear in mine when working on items such as dashboards.

I use most basic Zero Paint colors without clear and they look more than semi gloss. Which is fine for interior, chassis, small stuff or engine parts. In contrast to Vallejo that is really matte if painted.

Dont got a big Zero Paints example but below a Vallejo example:

a6np.jpg

For the body's I use the Zero Paints 2K clear coat to achieve the wet look finish. (I cannot achieve good result with pre thinned Zero Paints clear coat, but this works fine for small stuff)

6rfo.jpg

Its just a matter of trying, and finding what works best for you. If im not happy with the result I drop the object in a can of brake fluid and couple days/weeks I start over.

Edited by Dinky
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30 psi can be too high at times for some paints. Try spraying at 15-20 psi and move a little closer to what you're spraying. Just out of curiosity what size tip and needle are you using?

I'm using a 0.4 mm nozzle with 30 psi.

I dropped the psi to 20 and held the airbrush closer and that seems to help.

Mentally, I think I need to make an adjustment. I think I am manipulating the airbrush too much like a rattle can. I need to imagine more than I holding a brush in my hands. I believe I need to do this, because on the engine I painted, there is not enough paint in the nooks and crannies. That's because I just went over it evenly like with a can, and the paint did no reach those areas. If I use a fine mist coat, I think I should "brush" those nooks and crannies like I would with a regular brush.

Am I making sense here?

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0.4 with approx 30 psi works for me with different paints, I got the same Evo as you have.

I always start with mist layers in the corners (nook and crannies) when they are in color I paint the bigger surfaces.

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Front suspension put together:

front%20suspension_zpsgv84nzir.jpg

I'm so much more at ease building than painting…..

I think I'll give this another coat of primer before painting it matt black with airbrush (zero paints)

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Sounds like a pretty big needle and tip which, is good for spraying larger pieces. A lot of people and articles recommend pressures as low as 10 psi but, I have a smaller tip so I usually go with around 15-20 psi. For me it's also dependent on the paint I'm using too. What works for one paint may not work for another. I usually will play around with the pressure and how much I open the needle up until I get a good flow on some scrap or the side of the booth. Like a famous philosopher recently said "it's a lot like golf" what works one day doesn't always work the next. I always try and make sure the airbrush is cleaned when I'm done and I always run some thinner through it before I paint again. This will tell you how it's working before you put paint in it. This is why I use spray can a lot, I'm lazy and it's easier to grab a can and shoot something quick.

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That's it David, but insane Amazon prices!

This is more like it:

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/BARE-METAL-FOIL-Ultra-Chrome-self-adhesive-/191844806427?nav=SEARCH

Placing it when cut into very thin strips may drive you insane, but the results will be worth it! It's self adhesive, so when cut it will have to be gently peeled off the backing using a scalpel edge to lift it. My method would be to locate one end only on the dash and then position other end when the strip is straight and flat and rub down.

If you want to go nuts you could lightly place a square of it over all the lines then very gently rub down - only enough to see the line profiles. Then, using a secured straight edge, cut the foil into strips...remove foil between strips. Practice with offcuts first - you will nail it and the rewards are great! ;-)

Because I had to strip the paint of the dash the line profiles are now dimmer….. don't know whether I will still see them when I place the square on as you suggest.

Am inclined to first cut the little strips and then place them on…. in particular because the strips are "interrupted" by the Citroen sign, so I'll have to cut two even smaller ones...

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I would just mask the square like you said and spray the dash and then brush paint the rest instead of masking off the whole dash. If you want to spray the insert just spray it first and when it's dry, mask it off and spray the whole dash, much simpler.

Yep…. I think this is indeed a better and simpler approach…. will do that.

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hello David,

firstly thank you it is a great idea this thread.

secondly, this is my personal take on your questions and i am certainly not an expert:

1. Rule 1,2,3,4 ,5 is : Enjoy. You seem to be enjoying the technical approach and organizing and building, masking, painting, using technical tools ( like VT with his lathe ;) and this brings great results because there is 'passion'....being solidly equipped, and that's great!

2. 1:24 you need to decide if this is a comfortable size for you to build. personally i agree with Codger and Larchiefeng. You learn much more and much faster working with a bigger scale, whether building or painting.

Personally I prefer to work on bigger scale 1: 12 for cars and at least 1: 48 for planes. because i like detailing and it is comfortable size for that.

Otherwise your hard work tends to fade with small sizes.

3. My impressions is that - wit some exceptions of course - the more experienced the modeller, the larger the scale they like to work with.

You built a great 1:8 Ducatti so you seem comfortable with bigger scales.

With all my respect to those who build smaller sizes and turn out great reproductions. i.e in planes 1:72. i can not do that.

4. Harder & Steinbeck cleans very easily. it is a question of practice. i guess you had a bad experience because of the primer.

one important tip which was written here; use the same brand for paints, thinner and cleaners.

5. Zero paints are great, but you should also try Gravity paint for cars, they don't smell as bad and give an equally good result. In any case if you want to become great at painting, experiment with all paints, citadel for small, testors, AK etc.

7. Enjoy, enjoy, enjoy

Sam

Edited by sharknose156
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"3. My impressions is that - wit some exceptions of course - the more experienced the modeller, the larger the scale they like to work with."

I suspect it's more correlated with available modelling time, available modelling funds, and available display space than with "experience" per se...

;-P

Bestest,

M.

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I've built this kit, so I know how tricky that dashboard is for us beginners. One technique I started using, before I lost patience and just decided it didn't matter how it looked because it's not easy to see on the finished model, was to paint the chrome and then use the thin black border of the decal sheet to fill the black stripes with decals. Another approach I've seen and tried with less success is to paint, the chrome, coat it with a protective clear coat, then paint or spray the black and remove it from the chrome with thinner or by sanding.

Good luck with whichever route you choose.

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I've built this kit, so I know how tricky that dashboard is for us beginners. One technique I started using, before I lost patience and just decided it didn't matter how it looked because it's not easy to see on the finished model, was to paint the chrome and then use the thin black border of the decal sheet to fill the black stripes with decals. Another approach I've seen and tried with less success is to paint, the chrome, coat it with a protective clear coat, then paint or spray the black and remove it from the chrome with thinner or by sanding.

Good luck with whichever route you choose.

Tricky is the correct terminology.

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