Meteor NF.14 radar images?

[TheBaron]

Hi all.

I desperately want to undertake the foolhardy task of building a revealed nose radar for a1:72 AW Meteor NF.14 I'm about to commence. I've scoured any literature I can lay my hands on as well as searching the web, but simply can't find any images of the correct radar, either on it's own or mounted in-situ.

The correct radar for this variant of Meteor is I believe the AI MK.21 set (the modified US Westinghouse AN/APS-57). I've even looked for images of other aircraft using the same set with their radomes open but no joy.

The closest I could find is a repro of a Meteor maintenance manual on p.79 of the SAM modellers datafile No.8 on the Meteor, but it only has visible an NF.11 radar installation and the Mk.21 was only introduced from the NF.12 variant onwards, so that's no help.

Does anyone have any suggestions or pointers showing the nose open to reveal the radar on an NF.14?

Thanks for reading,

Tony

Edited May 3, 2016 by TheBaron

[LanceB]

According to Wikipedia, the NF.14 used the APS-21 radar, and the AI-21 (AN/APS-57) was used in the Venom NF.3. As both are numbered "21", but on different sides of the pond, perhaps there is some confusion?

If APS-21 is indeed correct for the Meteor NF.12/14, and not AI-21(AN/APS-57), then you could look at pics of the F3D Skyknight perhaps as that also used the APS-21 as its tracking radar:

http://airworld.tistory.com/entry/Douglas-F3D-Skyknight

(scroll down the above link until you get to the maintenance picture, the APS-21 is pulled out and setting on the ground)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3d/F3D-2_VMFN-513_Kunsan_radar2_1953.jpg

[TheBaron]

Lance Hi.

You're dead right about the level of confusion over the difference in nonemclature, several writers seems to have been confused and simply transposed the numerical part of the code from original US to UK radar variants. A number of sites on the web all state it's the APS-21, as does the SAM modellers datafile no.8 on the Meteor. I believe these to be in error.

I've just gone back to the official Pilot's Notes for the NF.14 and it is indeed the APS-57 radar on it, as there's a basic line drawing of the installation (which I missed earlier) at the beginning of the volume. My understanding is that some variants of the Venom/Sea Venom also used the same '57 radar as the NF.14 - I'd been trying to find pics of them with the nose opened as a reference but not joy there either.

Tony

Edited May 4, 2016 by TheBaron

[71chally]

Might be worth contacting the Yorkshire Air Museum about their NF.14 as they are restoring it at the moment. They had some really good pics of progress on Facebook and I was surprised at how much was present in the cockpits, unsure about the scanner area itself though.

The radar unit as I understand it, was the AI.21, the British version and designation of the American Westinghouse AN/APS-57.

Edited May 4, 2016 by 71chally

[Junchan]

The Pilot's Notes Meteor Night Fighters Marks 11, 12, 13 &14 and TT20, Target Tower provides cutaway drawings of NF. 11/12/13 and NF.14. The illustrations are rather basic, but they would be good enough for a model in 1/72 scale.

Hope these will be of some help.

Jun in Tokyo

https://www.flickr.com/photos/horaburo/albums

[TheBaron]

Might be worth contacting the Yorkshire Air Museum about their NF.14 as they are restoring it at the moment. They had some really good pics of progress on Facebook and I was surprised at how much was present in the cockpits, unsure about the scanner area itself though.

The radar unit as I understand it, was the AI.21, the British version and designation of the American Westinghouse AN/APS-57.

That's a great idea! I'll follow that Yorkshire lead up for sure. Also thanks for confirming the radar variant

The Pilot's Notes Meteor Night Fighters Marks 11, 12, 13 &14 and TT20, Target Tower provides cutaway drawings of NF. 11/12/13 and NF.14. The illustrations are rather basic, but they would be good enough for a model in 1/72 scale.

Jun in Tokyo

https://www.flickr.com/photos/horaburo/albums

Jun - that's great. I'd missed these myself in the initial read-through of the pilot's notes and only discovered they were there this morning!

My regards to Tokyo

Tony

[71chally]

Jun in Tokyo

https://www.flickr.com/photos/horaburo/albums

Sorry to digress from the thread, but superb pictures there Jun, especially the Neptunes for me!

[JagRigger]

Not sure there is much in the nose of the YAM one. I wonder if it's worth Venom chasing with the DH Museum

[canberra kid]

Hi Tony

Two photos that may be of help?

John

[Wez]

If you've got any doubts about whether John's (Canberra Kid) pictures are any use, Steve (Navy870) has a Sea Venom FAW.53 he's very fond of, I don't know whether it has a radar fitted but he may have access to some of the AP's that come with it which may provide some useful gen.

[TheBaron]

Hi Tony

Two photos that may be of help?

John

Hi John!

Checking that against the graphic in the Pilot's Notes, it (the drawing, not your excellent photo) is just ambiguous enough about the details to make it hard to say for sure as regards the radar dish itself and the structure immediately behind it. In your first photo of the dilapidated NF.14 though, the angular brackets to which a radar would have been attached seem to match the one which the radar unit in the second photo is attached to (though I'm conscious the airframe mounting could be a structure common to multiple Meteor variants...)

The one thing about the radar dish in the photo that gives me pause is that the antenna horn facing the reflector has a central attachment point here, whereas the AI.21 configuration looks more like a Sky satellite dish with the attachment point bottom centre angling up (you can see it in Jun's post above). If I reconfigure that part for the build I think your second photo gives enough information for me to base a 1:72 mockup on.

Strange that there seems so little visual evidence of this equipment in the historical record. Perhaps given the atmosphere of secrecy in the Cold War period there's a deliberate lack of published documentation, especially given our British penchant for official obfuscation.

I'll file this away and use it as the basis for some scratching up of details. Looking at your first photo I see no evidence of a hinge, so imagine the whole nose was simply lifted off for maintenance.

Tony

*Updated: Wez - Your message came through as I was typing earlier: I've fired Steve a PM just now to see if he has any info - cheers for that!

Edited May 4, 2016 by TheBaron

[Selwyn]

Has anyone got a picture of the venom NF3 or FAW22 Sea Venom? they have the same radar fitted.

Selwyn

Edited May 4, 2016 by Selwyn

[TheBaron]

*Bumping this thread with an update*

Bloody typical After searching high and low for actual photographs of the radar in situ on the aircraft, just as I'm nearing the end of the build I find this last night on the RAF Church Fenton website:

http://www.rafchurchfenton.org.uk/Photos/72_sqn_archive/72Meteors%20NF14%20'H'%20CF%201957%20%20Raymond%20Rayner%20pic%20%20015.jpg

Whilst not massively detailed on the front end, it gives a good visual synopsis (and at least lets me know I wasn't too far off) of an NF.14 with the schnozz dismounted to reveal the electrickery.

Tony