1/72 Pavla/Octopus Seafire Mk III with Skyfarer Intrusions

[AlexN]

Results of this morning's fisaco:

 

1. iPhone 7 Plus LED at full throttle. Quite useful for doing things by the light of at night when there is an extended power blackout. This was meant to go in my previous post wi' snaps, but I forgot it

 

iPhone 7 Plus LED at full throttle by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

2. Natural morning light - nice for taking snaps in

 

Natural morning light - nice for taking snaps in by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

3. Spitfire/Seafire 'Frame 13'. Probably. Or 12. This is rather rubbery old Selleys PorcelainFIX. Pinned down with Sellotape, my new favourite clamp

 

Spitfire/Seafire 'Frame 13' by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

4. Closer-up view of F13 with 4 and a bit holes drilled. I slipped with the drill on the left hand side, so that was the end of that one...

 

Closer-up view of F13 with 4 and a bit holes drilled by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

5. Boat epoxy resin glue F13. Two holes drilled

 

Boat epoxy resin glue F13 by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

6. 4 holes drilled. A bit lop-sided, too. Engineer's scribe used to 'centre-pop' the holes before driliing

 

Epoxy boat glue F13 by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

7. Epoxy F13, 5 hol-... Oops! Aargh! I inadvertently let got of the pin vice by accident, which subsequently fell over, breaking the top off the frame

 

Epoxy F13, 5 hol- by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

8. Broken frame arch. Whimper snivel   And it was going so well, too...

 

Broken frame arch by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

9. A case of Humpty Dumpty here: all the King's horses and so forth. Time to make a new one

 

A case of Humpty Dumpty here by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

10. One of the better F13 moulds, which is why I kept for a rainy day¹ (I knew that what was already cast wasn't up to much)

 

One of the better F13 moulds by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

11. Selleys PorcelainFIX added to one mould half with a cocktail stick - after popping the air bubbles out of the resin mass with it

 

Selleys PorcelainFIX added to one mould half by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

12. Both mould halves filled. There will be flash - deliberately: don't want a short-shot cast

 

Both mould halves filled by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

13. Filled mould parts together, waiting for the resin to set; I actually stuck it outside in the 44 ° heat (but not in the full sun)

 

Filled mould parts together by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

14. Resin set, mould cracked open. Good cast

 

Resin set, mould cracked open by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

15. Other side of the new F12 cast. Workable: nice and clean and crisp: I'm happy with that . The U-shaped bit (with air bubble) at the top of the arch will be removed

 

Other side of the new F12 cast by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

Follow the following link to my Seafire flickr album... >sigh<

 

 

Not a lot of progress, but I'm pleased with the latest F13, as said above. That is, of course, until I bungle the hole-drilling yet again and have to cast yet another frame. I have also been pondering how I'm going to open up the fuselage at that point, for the frame. Either a hobby drill with a cylindrical stone, or scraping with a no. 10 or 15 scalpel blade. I won't be doing either activity when I'm tired, though. It will be a laugh - ha ha, I will laugh so much mine head will fall off - if the Eduard frame doesn't fit inside the Pavla fuselage (waddya mean, haven't I test-fitted it yet? Of course I haven't! Waddya take me for - an organised person wot plans fings or summink?). I have a contingency plan for that but it will be more work than I wish to expend. If needs must, however...

 

Cheers,

Alex.

 

¹ Actually bright sunshine and 43.9 ℃...

[AlexN]

I've cleaned up F13 after snapping off the flash, including the rather crude U shape that Eduard put in the hold up the distal end up the top F12-F13 bracing strut. Beng the type of resin that it is, it's nice ans strong, but cleans up very easily. I like it a lot. Offering F13 up to a fuselage half shows that it will fit if I chop half its legs orf, since most of F13 is moulded into the resin cockpit sides (and possibly bottom). So 'just a bit of thinning' of the Pavla plastic parts. Minicraft drill (made in the UK!) and stone, I think. After practising with the setup on some kit runners first.

 

Also started work on the head armour plate: drilled out the holes for the supporting bolts, plus drilled out the outer ends of the Sutton harness slot, which latter I'll connect with some gentle slices with a new no. 11 blade to finish the slot. The plasticard that I'm using is the thinnest ABS sheet that I have but still a wee bit too thick, so I'll either sand it a bit thinner, or bevel the edges (as Eduard did with the plastic seat arnour plate part - which was snaffled by that greedy carpet monster or one of its close rellies, a while ago), or just plain not bother. It's coming along nicely, though.

 

Snaps tomorrow.

 

Cheers,

Alex.

[bbudde]

Please try it till it suits you. Just came in from the outside with -3°C now at midinight.

Another video, which I found yesterday and did liked. It was 2010 and a heavy winter, but fine and I took so many photos that year on several places. Although I don't think,you can start anything with that.

 

[AlexN]

Nice :). Lovely, in fact! Since it's already 39.7 ℃ at 10.10 am (and the wind's up ), this is most refreshing and just wahat the doctor ordered . Loved the Schnee on der/diesen(?) baumen (my German is no doubt as atrocious as my modelling!). Was that ice or water on the roads in spots (looked like ice!)? Winter Fairyland! It has its moments of humour, too. Brixton Boogie? Thank you, Benedikt! Totally cool cold!

 

OK, as I sit here sweating (and the iMac's rarely-heard fans are ramping up), here's an update:

 

1. From last night: Spitfire - OK, Seafire  - head armour plate with bolt and slot holes drilled 

 

Spitfire head armour plate with bolt and slot holes drilled by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

2. Overview of head armour plate. In comparison with Seafire fuselage. The odd squiggle in the LH corner of the plasticard is a seat side outline

 

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Overview of head armour plate by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

3. Eduard plate overlaid on the plasticard version Even allowing for the fact that the PE isn't exactly in place, the right bottom hole is out of whack (as is the RH slot hole), so...

 

Eduard plate overlaid on the plasticard version by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

4. Another armour plate attempt, using the etched part as a drilling template. Nice seat belts in the previous snap

 

Another armour plate attempt by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

5. Pencil outline of plate, after carefully re-overlaying it on the drilled holes. That looks better

 

Pencil outline of plate by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

6. Two head armour plates. I'll use the old one (RH) as a practise run

 

Two head armour plates by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

7. Seat armour plate outlines drawn on the plasticard

 

Seat armour plate outlines drawn on the plasticard by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

8. Sutton harness slot cut in the plate: a bit nerve-wracking, and not as good as I would have liked

 

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Sutton harness slot cut in the plate by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

9. Slot after a bit of 'cleaning up'. It actually looks worse! ABS plastic is rather unforgiving of ham-fistedness. Everything has to be 'just so'... And it does look rather furry from a distance, compared with the etched part

 

Slot arfter a bit of cleaning up by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

10. Some burnishing tools: used - in vain - to try and clean up the Sutton harness slot in the seafire head armour plate a bit. @Nigel Heath would be pleased with their use, if not the rather 'orrible result. Maybe some more sanding would fix that. ...

 

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Some burnishing tools by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

11. New (trial) plasticard plate against the PE version

 

New plasticard plate against the PE version by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

12. New plasticard plate against the PE version. A bit on the large side, too, as well as being rather too thick. Nice seat belts (again) 

 

New plasticard plate against the PE version by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

13.  The plasticard plate is a bit on the thick side (a bit like the muddler ) - a scale thickness of 32-33 mm (1.3 "); the actual plate is between 9 and 12.75 mm (3/8 - 1/2 ")

 

The plasticard plate is a bit on the thick side by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

14. Plastic armour plate against a side of the etched fret. A lot of sanding to do. I might leave that for the (hopefully) better version. Nice seat belts

 

Plastic armour plate against a side of the etched fret by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

Follow the following link to my Seafire flickr album (I really wouldn't bother)

 

 

Aargh!  Gurgle. The cold is making a comeback. Some mint tea (actually ended up being rooibos 'chai') and retiring to my cot beckon. I had hoped that the heat would burn the cold out. Speaking of burning, if there is an incident call, I won't be going in this state (IMSAFE and all that). And I'm not in a fit state to keep on at the armour plate or practise, either, so I will try and finish Mr Fritag's Jet Provost magnum opus instead.

 

Cheers,

Alex.  <-- has the cold too

[bbudde]

I tell you that (not tomorrow) today at ???? o' clock to you, when we are both in between. I'm too tired now to explain to you exactly, what that winter video was . Good night. Thank you anyway.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Very impressed by the quality of the parts you are casting and scratch-building, really nicely done. 

 

Nearly 40^oC in January.....I'm so jealous (and cold and miserable and fed up) winter sucks. 

[AlexN]

Out of likes again - you can blame my obsession with Fritag's Jet Provosts for that - or Mr Fritag hinself, even .

 

8 hours ago, bbudde said:

I tell you that (not tomorrow) today at ???? o' clock to you, when we are both in between. I'm too tired now to explain to you exactly, what that winter video was . Good night. Thank you anyway.

 

I am looking forward to that - great video!

 

 

8 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Very impressed by the quality of the parts you are casting and scratch-building, really nicely done. 

 

Nearly 40^oC in January.....I'm so jealous (and cold and miserable and fed up) winter sucks. 

 

Try 45.1 ℃, is what it ended up... Vastly overrated! As I like to say, if you live in a desert, a moss garden seems nice; if you live in a moss garden, a desert seems nice (I've lived in both). I dare say that if I were in the UK at the moment, I would be whinging even more that the locals, since I wouldn't be used to it (not even near it!). Sadly, the TheBaron-AlexN Through-Planet Tunnel doesn't seem to have worked (and just as well!).

 

Thank you very much for your kind words. I have to say that I am surprised at myself after months of stagnation and fumbling, and bumbling, and...anyway, here is what happened when I got out the emery boards:

 

1. Sanded DIY armour plate on Eduard F12. Plate reduced by about half its thickness

 

Sanded DIY armour plate on Eduard F12 by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

2. Reduced armour plate next to etched original. It has something of a slight 'smiley face' to it - it shouldn't have, though...

 

Reduced armour plate next to etched original by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

3. Rather wonky snap of plate against modified Pavla F12 - wonkier than normal, that is. Note the harness slot...

 

Rather wonky snap of plate against modified Pavla F12 by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

4. The Sutton harness slot is obstructed by the Pavla F12 frame, but...

 

The Sutton harness slot is obstructed by the Pavla F12 frame, but... by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

5. The Pavla F12 frame is a bit low at the top arch compared with the Eduard part, so it can be reduced a bit to clear the harness slot. The drilled-out Eduard F12 has succumbed to strain fatigue at its weakest point...

 

The Pavla F12 frame is a bit low at the top arch compared with the Eduard part by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

6.  Prototype plastic armour plate against the holes for the next versionPencil marks rub off ABS so easily! The seat plate has disappeared almost entirely

 

Prototype plastic armour plate against the holes for the next version by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

7. Another view of the thinned armour plate. Is that a smirk or a sardonic half-smile?

 

Another view of the thinned armour plate by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

Follow this link to my Seafire flickr album...

 

 

Spending the day out of it - I've finished fritag's Jet Provost thread! now onto his Hawks! - paid off, in that I was able to get a little bit more done on the armour plate prototype. I'm hoping that the dry run has revealed most of the traps!

 

Note that sanding the plate has helped clean up the Sutton harness slot, but not fixed it entirely. More care needed cutting the next one.

 

Cheers,

Alex.  <-- feels better too

[bbudde]

Hello, something about the video. This was from 2010-11. 2009 to 2010 was nearly hard and similar to 2012-13, but 2010 was longer from end of November till end of Februar. In December there were several times freezing rain, especially a very heavy one on the morning the of the 24th. Then, after that there came massive snow on Sylvester and during the whole January. Every second day as far as I remember.  By that time the temperature was never over 0°C and mostly far under -6°C until February. Sometimes -15°C at night. That caused serious problems to the local clearing and gritting, who also had insufficient amounts of salt. At the end of January they hadn't anymore and didn't drove anymore. So the icy streets became a bit wet over-6C and icy again below that temperature. So, yes what  you see on the most streets is ice (ca.3-4cm) On the main streets it's a bit wet sometimes, but only the rut from the traffic, which also often came to a stand still. Riding my bike was a bit difficult and caused "some happy little accidents" ( Bob Ross). So I kept on walking to do things. But the wonderful pictures compensated the embuggerances. " Zum Beispiel der Schnee in/an den Bäumen". Cheers

PS: Didn't know them: http://www.brixtonboogie.com/

PPS: 2013, wich is also nice, but was not that long and hard:

 

Edited January 18, 2017 by bbudde

[The Spadgent]

Brilliant scratch building Alex. The dedication to getting this just so is outstanding. Great stuff.

 

Jont.

[AlexN]

Thank you for the expanation, Benedikt . It certainly looked cold! I like to think that I would like the cold in comparison to the heat, but I know that in reality I wouldn't. Like the reverse situation: leaving Deutchland in mid-winter and getting off the plane 30 hours later in Australia - into 40 °C heat. That was a shock! Thank you very much for video nr. Zwei .  Danke schön, even! Yummy, yummy Schnee! It's forecast to be 26 °C here today, a cold snap! Ah, Brixton Boogie is a band! I'll check them out.

 

Um, thank you for your kind words, Jont . More later .

 

It's later .

 

I was going to comment on the last snap in my post above - where it looks as though the armour plate is suffering from the 'hungry horse' effect, probably caused by differential sanding pressures. The pressure was likely to have been greater around the holes, thus causing more material to have been removed there, resulting in somewhat of a quilted, less plate-late look - to my eye anyway . This is can be a problem in sheeted-balsa model aircraft construction if one is too heavy-handed with the sanding block. Or in this case, with the index finger against the piece o' plastic on the emery board. I have a cunning plan to get around this - other than acquiring the right thickness plasticard - which I will detail in the next post, once I've knocked together a simple little device. And tried it out. Um.

 

Cheers,

Alex.

Edited January 19, 2017 by AlexN
Added stuff from later

[AlexN]

1. Small sanding plate: 280 and 600 grit wet and dry on one side...

 

Small sanding plate by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

2. 120-grit on the other side of the sanding plate

 

120-grit on the other side of the sanding plate by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

3. Small piece of perspex sheet similar to the one in the sanding plate

 

Small piece of perspex sheet similar to the one in the sanding plate by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

4. First and second armour plates. A third was started...

 

First and second armour plates by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

5. Eduard fret taped down onto the cutting mat and ABS sheet. ABS sheet also taped to the mat

 

Eduard fret taped down onto the cutting mat and ABS sheet by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

6. Holes drilled in ABS sheet

 

Holes drilled in ABS sheet by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

7. Cut-lines marked out in pencil and no. 11 blade

 

Cut-lines marked out in pencil and no. 11 blade by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

8. Trimmed armour plate being sanded. Sanding plate's 600-grit portion used wet. I got the armour plate down to 0.195 mm thickness then stopped, discretion being the better part of valour in this instance

 

Trimmed armour plate being sanded by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

9. Three Spitfire head armour plates. Left to right: 1st, 2nd and 3rd

Three Spitfire head armour plates by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

10. Armour plate no. 3 on Eduard F12. Needs a bit of trueing up - in due course...

 

Armour plate no. 3 on Eduard F12 by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

11. Armour plate with proto-headrest. The latter will need a bit of work so I put it away safely

 

Armour plate with proto-headrest by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

12. Armour plate and headrest in a 'safety box'

 

Armour plate and headrest in a &#x27;safety box&#x27; by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

 

 

13. Armour plate bolt locations marked on Pavla F12, using the Eduard etched part as a template. Outline for new frame arch shape roughed in in pencil as well. A fine Perma-Grit file will be used to shave the frame back. The upper bolt holes are perilously close to F12's edge. A bit of pondering required here.

 

Armour plate bolt locations marked on Pavla F12 by Alex1N, on Flickr

 

Follow the following link to my Seafire flickr album...

 

 

I also did do some work on the holes on Frame 13, but sadly it all fell apart - literally - so I am faced with making another one or glueing up the boat-glue version. An attempt to drill some holes in the seat support frame revealed that a new one needs to be cast, since the current one is so floppy it bends on touch. Happily, I still have a mould for that part too, so I will do that and another F13 at the same time.

 

The little sanding plate worked quite well, giving me more flexibility to sand the armour plate - and it will no doubt be usefual for sanding ither things iin future . I now have a usable head amour plate for the Seafire, and the beginnings of the pilot's headrest, which attaches directly to the head armour plate, and some indicators on F12 to think about. A note on the head armour plate (and no doubt the seat plate) - it will have to be glued in place using Crystal Clear or epoxy, since plastic glue will completely dissolve it! I intend to add the (standoff) bolts by drilling through F12 and inserting short lengths of either Albion Alloys rod/tube, or stretched sprue, depending on what fits the armour plate holes.

 

More anon.

 

Cheers,

Alex.

[CedB]

Great work Alex - you're there!  

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Do you actually need to drill the holes.....Willl they be visible with the armour in place? 

 

I'd add any bolts afterwards too, a sliver of stretched sprue glued in the hole, trimmed to size and lightly sanded, then a drop of liquid poly to smooth it.....Job's a good 'un. 

[AlexN]

Thank you very much, Ced . Getting along...

 

That's a good point, Sarge! I had been slavishly (mindlessly) trying to recreate the Eduard part (per the habit developed from too much casting) without thinking whether they were necessary or not.

 

A look at the following photo from The Spitfire Site's 'Anatomy of a Spitfire Cockpit' gallery (with the BM walkaround of Mk Vc AR501 and @Grey Beema's great addition of cockpit annotations from the official Pilot's Notes, my main sets of references for this build), you can see one of the top two securing-bolt ends on the armour plate - still pondering this. They are more doable than, for example, the canopy release handle (Eduard have it in their etched fret, but...) or the piping around the front of the headrest... Note the voltage regulator box protruding past F12 outline, and the (night) black internal forward canopy frame - and interior grey green internal fixed canopy forward frame

 

Photo copyright The Spitfire Site

 

 

A good view of two of the armour plate mounting bolts/spacers - and the gap 'twixt F12 and plate. Note also the cable-supporting flange at the top of the frame arch, and the Night Black internal framing of the windshield

 

Photo copyright The Spitfire Site

 

 

 

These photos have appeared in this thread before, but this is a good time to repeat them, as I was going to shortly in any case. Anyway, the holes is there now, so I'll proceed with that and see what happens. Note: the gap between plate and frame works out to between 0.26 mm (3/4") and 0.35 mm (1"). Not frightfully big at this scale, eh?

 

Cheers,

Alex.  <-- not a piece of armour plate

[bbudde]

Looking very good. You'll get this right. Good reference is always needed and this one looks good. Will go off soon, as  I have to go early  to the dentist tomorrow, ahh today. Cheers

[AlexN]

Thank you for your support, and good luck with today's dentistry, Benedikt - there seems to be a lot of it about at the moment. I wonder how @TonyTiger66 is getting on... Speaking a lot of it about, that blasted cold has ramped up several notches today  <-- not crying, nose-blowing! Urk, gurgle, snuffle... Today has been a total washout for anything except occasional reading.

 

So here's another photo to make up for lack of progress - tomorrow's a wipe-out on account of (essential) training, although if I'm still like this on the morrow I won't be going (which is why I'm keeping such a low profile today):

 

A view of the pilot's headrest and armour plating. Note the (upper)  large knurled round nuts securing the head armour. I think that the voltage reg mount can just be made out behind the sliding canopy catch. Brilliant view of the blown sliding cabopy sides, too - fantastic! Bits of F13 and othe bits and bobs of framing visible here too. Another element of note is the very obvious red leather set back padding: not black in this instance.

 

Photo copyright The Spitfire Site

 

The Spitfire Site's captions are rather frustratingly inconsistent when it comes to numbering the cocpit frames - unless, of course, I have misread them, which is highly likely - but I am sticking to F12 for the seat-bearing frame and F13 for the one abaft the rear fixed canopy section.

 

The seat-pad rivets are quite visible in the photo above, but beyond my 'abilitiy' to replicate. Interesting about the leather colour - a very close match with the phenol-formaldehyde seat. I am tempted to keep the painted seatand put some slightly flatted semi-gloss clear over the whole thing...

 

The main reason for posting the photo above - it does of course have its own intrinsic interest and is nice to look at besides - is the size of the headrest. My little approximation is actually an underestimation by around 50-70 scale mm or so, or almost 3" to narrow. Mine should be about 2 mm wide and deep, wheteas the rod that is was sliced from was 1.5 mm. I was in a rather wobbly and febrile state when I noticed the discrepancy in the first photo in my post above and attempted some hurried measurement of the Eduard head armour plate and yet another approximation, so I won't be trusting it as a final figure. The circular attachment flange on the armour plate is a bit different, since it looks to be 3/4", so easy to add on to the final diameter of the headrest.

 

The Airfix headrest is totally untrustworthy since it has an ovoid shape - the one in the photos above is most definitely circular.

 

Well, I think that that's enough rattling on for the present. I do at least have some grist to mill when my faculties - such as they are normally - are in a clearer state.

 

Thank you for looking, as they say on other threads but I amost always forget get to do.

 

Cheers,

Alex. Gurgle. Urk.

 

Oh what the heck, here's another photo:

 

Full view of The Shutteworth Collection's Mk Vc's head armour plate from Julien's section of AR501's BM walkaround, showing four knurled retaining nuts, no seat assembly and attendent armour plate, and what appear to be four lightening holes each side at the top of F13. And I have discovered along the way today that the tippy-top of F12 does in fact meet the aft fixed canopy portion... Note the pilot's door aft stopjust inboard of the sliding canopy runner, and the empennage control wires towards the bottom of the fuselage (at this point). This aircraft appears to be devoid of the armour plate-mounted headrest

 

 

Photo copyright @Julien

[CedB]

Admirable attention to detail Alex but be careful that you're not looking at photos of restorations... I've not seen the big black headrest on any models so it may be a 'comfort' addition, or even worse 'Health and Safety', the two most dangerous words in the English language  

[AlexN]

Aiee! Not H&S?  

 

 I could write pages and pages...

 

Thank you for your words of warning. The photos are from galleries of restorations - interestingly, The Spitfire Site claims to have faithfully restored theirs to wartime fitout, except for safey-regulation mandatory requirements, such as the seat belt set-up. Perhaps the headrest is in the same (or a similar) latter category. Interesting that the Shuttleworth's AR501 doesn't have the rest.

 

I did need something to do to amuse myself today, too .

 

Gurgle,

Alex.

[TheBaron]

On 1/17/2017 at 10:28 AM, AlexN said:

Natural morning light - nice for taking snaps in by Alex1N, on Flickr

If appearances are to be believed Alex, you have a horrific morning dental routine...

 

Marathon progress to catch up on here Alex and the results of your patience are really starting to show through. Excellent!

 

Tony

[TonyTiger66]

This is fantastic attention to detail Alex. 

I'm fascinated by the headrest; it's flipping huge in the photos! A 1970's 'pouffe' mounted sideways.

 

The Spit/Seafire pilots had it a lot more comfortable than their Bf-109 adversaries by the look of things.

 

You and the other chaps have probably noticed my post frequency is a bit lacking, but I'm here, and enjoying it very much.

 

Once you have this rare Pavla bird's fuselage buttoned up Alex, I reckon you'll storm to the finish line quickly with a stonkingly good result  .

 

Will it be undercarriage up or down?

 

TT 🐯 

[AlexN]

On 20/01/2017 at 22:59, TheBaron said:

If appearances are to be believed Alex, you have a horrific morning dental routine...

 

Marathon progress to catch up on here Alex and the results of your patience are really starting to show through. Excellent!

 

Tony

 

Off to the right and off-camera is a heavy-duty nylon static-conductive brush for said dental care...in inverted commas. My teeth are aching at the thought!

 

Thank you for the kind words on the modelling, but see below.

 

 

On 20/01/2017 at 23:01, TonyTiger66 said:

This is fantastic attention to detail Alex. 

I'm fascinated by the headrest; it's flipping huge in the photos! A 1970's 'pouffe' mounted sideways.

 

The Spit/Seafire pilots had it a lot more comfortable than their Bf-109 adversaries by the look of things.

 

You and the other chaps have probably noticed my post frequency is a bit lacking, but I'm here, and enjoying it very much.

 

Once you have this rare Pavla bird's fuselage buttoned up Alex, I reckon you'll storm to the finish line quickly with a stonkingly good result  .

 

Will it be undercarriage up or down?

 

TT 🐯 

 

It's a pouffe all right - maybe the 70s pouffe designers drew their inspiration from that.

 

I read something once about Willi Messerchmitt's cramped Bf 109's pilot accomodations - the 109's head armour plate would have been both a blessing for pilot protection an a curse for claustrophobes, not to mention rediction in visibility. Later marks did have armoured glass up the top of the armour plate, but even so...  I still remember the lovely time that I had paining the leather pad on the then-brand-new Airfix 1/24 109's headrest, years ago.

 

I had noticed your quietude, and put it dowm to your 2.30 appointment (to shamelessly nick Ced's joke ). Thank you for keeping in touch with my loopy antics, though .

 

Warning - there will be some 'fun and games' once the wings are on, involving files, milliput and the-currently-barely-existent aft ventral wing root 'troughs'. I have plans for those, you see.

 

It will be undercarriage down - and tailhook down too. Still pondering how to make that look 'credible' since the hook would have been up well before the pilot had exited normally - considering a good landing and not ending up in the Barrier, the Island, or the Drink. Although by the dates of the four aircaft in the markings sheet, pilots appear to have mostly learned how to get the Seafire down safely and in one piece.

 

I've stalled again, unfortunately. Yesterday's training session (mercifully only half a day) while not very well left me knackered for the rest of the day and most of today as well by the looks. Had to do it or waste the course I was on late last year. And given this year's self-imposed training schedule (if approved by Head Office), not something that I was willing to countenance.

 

I am also, in the odd lucid moments, trawling the internet for inrmation on Spitfire headrests or lack thereof. My own memory from years ago says that there were, but I needs must follow up Ced's contra-indication, trained scientist wot I am - old habits dying hard and all that. I haven't come up with any results that are antwhere near conclusive, and I am probably on a hiding to nothing in any case, but my curiosity has been piqued.

 

Cheers,

Alex.  <-- not a Bf 109 headrest

[AlexN]

A quick-ish note regarding headrests: according to wot I just read by Mr Green on Hyperscale, Mk IXs didnae hae headrests. Since the Seafire Mk III had many characteristics in common (albeit not the lengthened fuselage -as far as I know/can see) with the Mk IX (and could apparently outperform contemporaneous Mk IXs at certain altitudes), Seafires didnae nae the rests either. But: who nows what HM's Admiralty's specifications were in this direction.

 

Pavla have moulded a headrest on their Seafire 'Frame 12/11/whatever', but then so have Airfix on their Mk IXc (see above link). Inconclusive, I know.

 

I have recousre to the 'All Your Spitfire Questions Answewred' thread to see if it's mentioned there - thank you to whoever-it-was who recommended this thread either way back in this thread or maybe in another thread on BM entirely.

 

Since it is an item that can be added right at the end eith a dab of crystal clear, I'm not going to get my bluebirds in a tangle over this detail - yet. I still have yet to find the position and shape of the catapault hooks too, with which I can also get my underwear in a bowline, so plenty of scope for  yet. While I wait I shall scratchbuild a Merlin 55M, mounts and plumbing. JUST JOKING!

 

As you can see, I am also not quite in my right mind (I heard that, too!) at the moment.

 

And maybe the Seafire Mk III didn't have pilot seat/head amour, either...

 

Um...from the late Edgar's post via the above-referred Spitfire questions thead (volume 2) regarding headrests:

 

...

 

BUT: Edgar again, just below previous quote -

 

The full quote reads:

 

"

Not on Seafires, though, in fact, on the IIc, from 29-10-42, an "Adjustable headrest for catapulting conditions" was introduced. Haven't found a drawing, for that one, yet.

Edgar

"

(My italics.) So, one should always be careful and not just grab a single data point out of the blue (standard Scientific Method 101).

 

The latter above from Edgar suggests - but is by no means proof, of course - that the armour plates were present in the Seafire.

 <-- also representative of the alex its brain. (That's were the possesive apostrophe comes from, of course.)

 

Cheers,

Alex.  <-- as confused as the alex ...

[Procopius]

Seat armour seems to be present here:

 

 

Do you have the Pilot's Notes already?

[AlexN]

Hello Procopius! Welcome to my thread !

 

Thank you very much for your nice photo . And I do have the Pilot's Notes for the Seafir e (and many others ) happily sqirrelled away, but thank you for the link - hopefully of use by otheres taking the trouble to read this far. I agree with you, that does indeed appear to an armour plate. In a spooky coincidence, I have been looking at a printed version of my copy of Sovereign Series book, SPITFIRE by Stewart Wison, 1999, ISBN 1 875671 45 5 - through my magnifiers. I was in fact trundling back to this thread with a sheaf of discoveries from this book, when here is your post!

 

OK. My 'carefully pre-written post' needs some revision. There is another photo in Mr Wilson's (not the late former UK Prime Minister) that shows a good proportion of Ship's Complement of Seafires ranged on deck 'in the Far East in early 1944', with all visible Seafires showing the pilot's head armour - but no headreasts. Not a skerrick , a smidgeon or even a smuge thereof.

 

Which brings me to the next poiece of info wot was I gunna cough up: all three FAA Seafires as shown in Pavla's markings sheet (the fourth is a French Aéronavale machine 'in French Indochina' Oct 1948) were all made at Westland's factory from August to December 1944. The French-marked Seafire has a fragment of a serial number on the starboard side only - PR2 - which would most likely put it in the same Aug-Dec '44 time frame from, again, Westland's. SPITFIRE has quite a comprehensive list of Spitfire and Seafire serial numbers with factory of origin, which is wonderful for OCD persons such as myself...

 

Interestingly - for me - the Mk Vc AR501 in the BM walkaround was also Westland-built (July 1941 to September 1942). The other aircraft featured in this thread, The Shuttleworth Collection's Mk Vb BL628 was built at Castle Bromwich (City of Birmingham) some time November 1941 to May 1942 and later converted into a Seafire Mk IIc. Then re-converted back to Vb status, if I have read The Spitfire Site correctly (and, to quote the late Messrs G and I Gerswin, "dat ain't necessarily so"...).

 

Also, another couple of Fun Facts that I found interesting: the first clipped-wing, retracting tailwheel Spifire appeared in earlyish 1940 (need to check this since I couldn't find it ona second and third thumb-through). And the first Griffon-engined prototype in a Spifire Mk IV occurred on November 27 1941.

 

So, we have armour plates, but not necessarily headrests.

 

I found the Crowood Publications book on the Seafire on Scribd: interesting diagrammes, but the text is almost unreadable. I have also ordered David Brown's The Seafire - The Spitfire That Went to Sea, a snap at 'only' US$6.99...and >> AU$20+ postage. If a certain country wishes to make Arm Erika, Elizabeth 'n' Everyone Else great again, I suggest that they look into the risble gouging by the country-of-export's international freight companies vis-à-vis said country's inability to export (rather than, say, tooling up to blast the rest of us into meat sauce). We are not amused, especially when the projected delivery time is 22 Feb - 27 Mar 17, or thereabouts.  and .

 

But We do look forward to it turning up when - or if - it (ever) does.

 

I shall continue my 'researches', such as they are, in any case. And the building: I have another Seafire in the collection (Airfix 1/48 Mk 46/47 wi' extra bits), and will no doubt chop up other non-Seafires to convert the to life at sea/on the ocean wave/briny...

 

Cheers,

Alex (still sick'n'grumpy).

[TheBaron]

I find those binary situations where two different photo references give contra-indications to be one of those points in modelling that mirrors the uncertainties that historians themselves must encounter, writing as they do something which is a construction via discourse, and based upon not just surviving evidence, but also at times involving the use of inference and probability.

 

One thing I've learned regarding paint-schemes and a whole load of other structural issues is that apparently clear cut descriptions in reference books about what left the factory do not always match the modifications and alterations that subsequently took place on the front line, as a result not only of operational experience, pilot preference etc. but daily wear and tear over the lifetime of the aircraft. 

 

Running up up against such issues always reminds me that the historical record appears a much calmer and retrospectively-ordered representation than the frequently dynamic and chaotic experience of those events were for the original participants.

 

Tony