He 219 camouflage, early

[modelmaker]

I'm presently building the 1/72nd Dragon Uhu, a 219 A0, early1944, Venlo, Manfred Neuter. I wonder if anyone has any reliable info on a suitable camouflage scheme for such an aircraft? I have of course trawled the inter web for pictures of the real thing but there are times when you need the advice of the knowledgeable, and this is it.

any ideas or pictures would be grateful appreciated, many thanks

[Vonbraun]

Typically, RLM 76 (Light blue) with a mottled upper surface of RLM 75 (Gray). Mottle was applied with 76 splotches over a 75 base.

Variations to include the use of black to various extent.

Good luck.

Edited April 5, 2016 by Vonbraun

[Rich G]

Classic Publications book 'Nachtjager: Luftwaffe night fighter units volume 2' is an excellent reference book, particularly for the He 219, it has lots of pictures, descriptions and colour profiles.

Unfortunately they are hard to get hold of nowadays, Amazon have used ones around the £209 mark! and £530 new .

Occasionally you can find one at a more reasonable price, I picked up a whole load of the Classic publications Luftwaffe books from WH Smiths around the £25 mark a couple of years ago, however they are now harder to get hold of, although the occasional bargain does crop up.

Hopefully someone else on here might have one to hand and can e-mail you some scans of the relevant pages, if not Von brauns advice is spot on regarding the colour scheme.

Rich

[Bigglesof266]

Lovely kit of its era still superb in that scale today, but are you sure you don't mean the aircraft of Hptm. Manfred Meurer, G9+BB? If you're building Meurer's A-0 in "early" '44, then its camo scheme is rather specific as is its ident. Colliding with a Lancaster near Magdeburg, he died on night ops 21/22 Jan '44, so early '44 offers a three week window during which the colour scheme is unlikely to have changed from other than as specifically depicted.

Do you not have the kit instructions? They feature two A-0 paint schemes including colour callouts. One is for Meurer's G9+BB in "early '44" as accurately as was known. The other earlier monochrome scheme option for which decals are supplied is that of the equally famous aircraft of Maj Werner Streib mid '43. Both were Venlo based.

Profile publications #219 on the He 219 features a colour plate of Meurer's A-0 as its centrespread if that's the one you want to depict.

GL, enjoy, first class subject choice.

[Duncan B]

Classic Publications book 'Nachtjager: Luftwaffe night fighter units volume 2' is an excellent reference book, particularly for the He 219, it has lots of pictures, descriptions and colour profiles.

Unfortunately they are hard to get hold of nowadays, Amazon have used ones around the £209 mark! and £530 new .

Occasionally you can find one at a more reasonable price, I picked up a whole load of the Classic publications Luftwaffe books from WH Smiths around the £25 mark a couple of years ago, however they are now harder to get hold of, although the occasional bargain does crop up.

Hopefully someone else on here might have one to hand and can e-mail you some scans of the relevant pages, if not Von brauns advice is spot on regarding the colour scheme.

Rich

Jeez, How much?

I've got the whole series

Modelmaker doesn't say what stage he is at with his build but I have found it a tricky blighter. Mine is stalled at the moment as I have to sort out an issue with the one piece tailplane, unfortunately mine has gone on at a strange angle (my fault for not dry fitting first) so I've had to hack off the tailplanes from the central piece to pin and refit them at some point. With all the nose weight required to prevent a tail sitter it's a heavy little model too, I hope the nose undercarriage will be able to hold the weight.

Duncan B

[warhawk]

Typically, RLM 76 (Light blue) with a mottled upper surface of RLM 75 (Gray). Mottle was applied with 76 splotches over a 75 base.

Good luck.

To my eyes, this looks like 76 squiggles over 75 base. I believe I can see strokes of lighter color over a dark base.

[Stonar]

To my eyes, this looks like 76 squiggles over 75 base. I believe I can see strokes of lighter color over a dark base.

And I agree with that. The example at the NASM has been re-finished following the original scheme revealed during disassembly and restoration and it is exactly that.

http://blog.nasm.si.edu/restoration/heinkel-wing-paint/

Cheers

Steve

[boom.boom]

And I agree with that. The example at the NASM has been re-finished following the original scheme revealed during disassembly and restoration and it is exactly that.

http://blog.nasm.si.edu/restoration/heinkel-wing-paint/

Cheers

Steve

Yeah, defiantly looks to me like RLM76 over RLM75 but I do not agree with NASM RLM76 pattern! They sprayed rlm76 in spaghetti (waving) manner while on real thing was more like irregular netish pattern.

[modelmaker]

Lovely kit of its era still superb in that scale today, but are you sure you don't mean the aircraft of Hptm. Manfred Meurer, G9+BB? If you're building Meurer's A-0 in "early" '44, then its camo scheme is rather specific as is its ident. Colliding with a Lancaster near Magdeburg, he died on night ops 21/22 Jan '44, so early '44 offers a three week window during which the colour scheme is unlikely to have changed from other than as specifically depicted.

Do you not have the kit instructions? They feature two A-0 paint schemes including colour callouts. One is for Meurer's G9+BB in "early '44" as accurately as was known. The other earlier monochrome scheme option for which decals are supplied is that of the equally famous aircraft of Maj Werner Streib mid '43. Both were Venlo based.

Profile publications #219 on the He 219 features a colour plate of Meurer's A-0 as its centrespread if that's the one you want to depict.

GL, enjoy, first class subject choice.

you are correct, my Kindle auto corrected 'Meurer' without my noticing (always proof read JD). the marking and painting guide shows a series of jagged '75 blotches and I'd assumed these were just random kit instructions rather than an accurate representation, I will perhaps scan them when I get a moment; they certainly don't seem to conform to the accepted 'squiggle' pattern that are seen on the pic that Vonbraun has kindly supplied. they are just the usual B&W pictures on the instruction sheet. rather frustratingly I've got a lot of the Profile booklets, inherited from a friend who died a few years back, but they only go up to 212!!!!

thanks to everyone so far, I see a couple of potential Profile options on Ebay, so I'll see what occurs, worth a couple of pounds (or Euros)

will send some pictures when she's painted,

[Stonar]

Also worth noting that R. Francis Ferguson reckons that all the aircraft finished with the RLM 22 undersides fall into just two Werknummer blocks, that is 290054-290078 and 290110-290129.

He states that "To date no examples of this camouflage scheme have been found in the photographic record outside this Werknummern range." To date being as of 2012.

Cheers

Steve

[Bigglesof266]

Hi Steve. My enquiry re the instructions was primarily that I have that kit and its instructions and could scan the relevant page if required had yours been missing.

Images abound on the net of many models completed in every man's interpretation of the He 219's upper surface pattern, even of 76/75 actual colours although there is greater conformity there.

A read of this this might prove useful. http://www.rlm.at/download/rlmpdf_e.pdf

Of particular note, the variation in shades due paint production irregularities due source and material shortages at the time. So for out purposes, it's hard to get the actual colours "wrong" per se.

Also as an aid, Urban's Colour reference chart offer a range of RLM references to our hobby paints including suggested Tamiya mixes for 75/76.

More reading, with some colour plates of a Venlo based 2./NJG 1 A-0 (W.Nr 190 012) circa March '43 you'll like on page three, which just to add to the confusion has the starboard wing underside painted RLM 22, and the author correctly asserts RLM 75 stippling on the upper surfaces wisely without entering into controversy as to the paint method or sequence of how the effect was achieved.

[Stonar]

More reading, with some colour plates of a Venlo based 2./NJG 1 A-0 (W.Nr 190 012) circa March '43 you'll like on page three, which just to add to the confusion has the starboard wing underside painted RLM 22, and the author correctly asserts RLM 75 stippling on the upper surfaces wisely without entering into controversy as to the paint method or sequence of how the effect was achieved.

If that date is not a typo I would have some serious reservations about the article in which it appears It might mean to read 1944.

The famous comparison flights between the He 219 V1 and a Ju 188 E-1 took place on 25th and 26th March 1943. The first machines (V7,V8 and V9) went to Venlo during April/ May 1943 (I haven't checked the dates but all three were there by mid May).

The first 'live' operation was flown by the V9 (now G9+FB) on the night of 11th June 1943.

The single black wing as an IFF marking appeared later, in early 1944 if my memory hasn't let me down.

Cheers

Steve

[Bigglesof266]

Yer, you're right Steve. Well spotted. Out by a year typo, which I should have picked up. Mea culpa. Early AM shuffling between PC and build desk applying etch cap end plates with bolts to my Hetzer's eight suspension arm hubs.

[Stonar]

Yer, you're right Steve. Well spotted. Out by a year typo, which I should have picked up. Mea culpa. Early AM shuffling between PC and build desk applying etch cap end plates with bolts to my Hetzer's eight suspension arm hubs.

Don't worry, I know the feeling

Cheers

Steve

[modelmaker]

Lovely kit of its era still superb in that scale today, but are you sure you don't mean the aircraft of Hptm. Manfred Meurer, G9+BB? If you're building Meurer's A-0 in "early" '44, then its camo scheme is rather specific as is its ident. Colliding with a Lancaster near Magdeburg, he died on night ops 21/22 Jan '44, so early '44 offers a three week window during which the colour scheme is unlikely to have changed from other than as specifically depicted.

Do you not have the kit instructions? They feature two A-0 paint schemes including colour callouts. One is for Meurer's G9+BB in "early '44" as accurately as was known. The other earlier monochrome scheme option for which decals are supplied is that of the equally famous aircraft of Maj Werner Streib mid '43. Both were Venlo based.

Profile publications #219 on the He 219 features a colour plate of Meurer's A-0 as its centrespread if that's the one you want to depict.

GL, enjoy, first class subject choice.

dear 'Biggles', ny joy is almost unrestrained, by the miracle of the internet and the 'Web I now have a perfectly scanned PDF of Profile 219, and what an education it is, many many pictures that I've not seen before including, as you said, a colour 3-view of Meurer's aircraft. many many thanks, very thoughtful of you to suggest, regards JD

[Bigglesof266]

Good stuff. Those venerable profile publications are gold, widely available online as an added bonus.

[Rich G]

Jeez, How much?

I've got the whole series

Modelmaker doesn't say what stage he is at with his build but I have found it a tricky blighter. Mine is stalled at the moment as I have to sort out an issue with the one piece tailplane, unfortunately mine has gone on at a strange angle (my fault for not dry fitting first) so I've had to hack off the tailplanes from the central piece to pin and refit them at some point. With all the nose weight required to prevent a tail sitter it's a heavy little model too, I hope the nose undercarriage will be able to hold the weight.

Duncan B

Duncan, the prices are ridiculous!

I've got 15 books myself, all four Volume 2 books of the Jagdwaffe series and book 4 from Volume 1, all of the Kampffleiger books and some other single books like ground attack aircraft and reconnaissance aircraft etc, but some of them are very highly priced on amazon, they seem to be quite rare nowadays as well.

You're sitting on a small fortune Duncan, probably a few thousand based on Amazons pricing!!

Rich

[Duncan B]

I would't part with them though as they are a great source of reference and colour profiles for inspiration. The Spanish Civil War one cost me the most IIRC.

Duncan B

[Rich G]

I would't part with them though as they are a great source of reference and colour profiles for inspiration. The Spanish Civil War one cost me the most IIRC.

Duncan B

I wouldn't either, but it's nice to know they're that highly rated.

I find them really useful too, some of the specific references regarding the markings of certain individual aircraft is second to none, they're an interesting read as well.

Rich