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Humbrol 127 and 128


Vlad

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I find these colours very versatile because of their faint blue tint but I'm also getting frustrated with their reliability. The most recent tins (the shiny blue label "Made in the UK") come out as neutral greys, which for me defeats the point of using them. Anyone else noticed this and how do you get around it? How blue are they really supposed to be?

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Well, it's Humbrol. Their reliability has been terrible since they brought production back to the UK from China (where it was even worse). I haven't bought a tin of their stuff recently that I haven't had issues with. It's rubbish.

Not a helpful post but does underline the quality of their current output.

Jeff

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I agree but despite their numerous issues they are still the best paints for a brush user like myself (once you work out the thinning quirks of each tin) and are the only paints I can walk into a local shop and buy (planning simple paint use around online orders is a big hassle especially with the new Royal Mail rules). I've thought of switching and read reviews of other brands but every time there's something that puts me off.

EDIT: I was talking about enamels but do the acrylics have the same quality issues? Review are mixed as to how well they brush on, any experience?

Edited by Vlad
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FS 36320 and 36375 are tricky colours as these paints are designed to become "bluer" depending on the light so to better blend into the sky. For this reason they may look more or less blue depending on the lighting.

IMHO the humbrol paints you mentioned were good matches, it's a pity that now quality has gone downhill. I'd suggest alternatives like Model Master enamels (great matches) or Lifecolor acrylics (very, very easy to apply by brush). Not sure however how easily these may or not be available to you

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FS 36320 and 36375 are tricky colours as these paints are designed to become "bluer" depending on the light so to better blend into the sky. For this reason they may look more or less blue depending on the lighting.

IMHO the humbrol paints you mentioned were good matches, it's a pity that now quality has gone downhill. I'd suggest alternatives like Model Master enamels (great matches) or Lifecolor acrylics (very, very easy to apply by brush). Not sure however how easily these may or not be available to you

Yes, they seem to be modern USAF colours. I do have fairly yellow-orange lighting in the room which I assume makes them look more grey, while more "natural" whiter light presumably brings out the blue more? Oddly enough, some of the older Chinese batches come out more noticeably and consistently blue irrespective of lighting (although they also dry Matt instead of Satin). Maybe I need a better lamp!

What are you using them for generally?

I'm not looking for perfect absolute matches. What I've done over time is built up a "library" of Humbrol paints (as I said, easily available to me) that best match as many different real life colours as possible (to minimise my own paint stock) not just in an absolute sense but relative to each-other (e.g. the contrast they create in camouflage schemes). Humbrol 127 and 128 are amongst the most versatile to me, here are my current uses:

Humbrol 127:

- USN - 5-L Light Grey

- RN - AP507C - also late WWI ships

- KM - Hellgrau 50 (RAL 7001) - also WWI ship upperworks

- Luftwaffe - RLM 76 (mid/late-war faded variant)

Humbrol 128:

- USN - 5-H Haze Grey - also possibly post-war/modern Haze Grey

- KM - Dunkelgrau 51 (RAL 7000) - also WWI ship hulls

- possibly testing it for a mid-WWI RN colour (e.g. ships at Jutland)

I brought up the issue with the amount of blue tint in them specifically because at the moment I'm using 127 and 128 for WWII USN 5-L and 5-H respectively, which despite their names (light/haze grey) have a blue-ish tone to them. I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that the range of USN WWII camouflage colours from 5-P to 5-N used the same tinting paste just in different proportions. This is the main application where having a batch that comes out neutral grey spoils the finish for me, since it's often juxtaposed with more "true" blues like 5-O and 5-N.

Edited by Vlad
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Given the inconsistency with post-China Humbrol, the uses you list are substantially different enough that I wouldn't personally be too bothered about having to look elsewhere.

The 4(6) uses you list for 127 are very obviously different when lined up together. Same for 128. What I really mean is that the shade of each is very different so if happy to accept that as an approximation then the level of blue tint is almost the least of the concern.

I'm confident you'll find a reliable substitute - there are lots of options which spray and brush better than Humbrol. The only real limitation is being able to buy them on the high street.

Best of luck finding something whatever you do :)

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Given the inconsistency with post-China Humbrol, the uses you list are substantially different enough that I wouldn't personally be too bothered about having to look elsewhere.

The 4(6) uses you list for 127 are very obviously different when lined up together. Same for 128. What I really mean is that the shade of each is very different so if happy to accept that as an approximation then the level of blue tint is almost the least of the concern.

I'm confident you'll find a reliable substitute - there are lots of options which spray and brush better than Humbrol. The only real limitation is being able to buy them on the high street.

Best of luck finding something whatever you do :)

Thank you! I am aware my matching methods are unorthodox but at least as far as USN colours are concerned the slight blue tint is important.

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That may have sounded a bit dismissive on my part which wasn't my intention. What I meant was that given the spread of colours being represented, there are numerous alternatives for blueish greys available from numerous manufacturers which would serve your purpose and generally avoid "tooling up" with a range of close matches. A one off mail order of something suitable would keep you going for a good while. :)

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Not at all, and actually that's a good suggestion that I didn't really think about, mind clouded with complaining about Humbrol obviously. Do you have some pictures of how Colourcoats 5-L and 5-H turn out painted on? What else would you recommend for a slightly blue-ish grey?

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Since I had them all to hand, I've brushed out each of the uses you mentioned above on to the back of a postcard (there's a joke in there somewhere). They're not a million miles from each other really but AP507 C sticks out like a sore thum in this company.

Bluish%20Greys_zpssyv60lib.jpg

Modern Soviet Blue Grey is kinda similar to RLM76.

RAF Medium Sea Grey is similar to 5-H

JMSDF Deck Grey is similar to Hellgrau 50

IJN Kure Grey is sort-of similar to AP 507B, as is RAF Ocean Grey and USN 5-O Ocean Grey

20160406_180121_zps8wchsvhr.jpg

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Thank you very much! That to me demonstrates two things. Firstly how light conditions can make a world of difference (the scan makes everything look blue, the lower picture makes half the colours look green, or it's just my screen). Secondly, 5H is much darker than a lot of people seem to use on their models (I keep seeing USN ship models in Measure 22 looking like they have blue hulls and white superstructure). I'll probably go and do what you've done, give my tin of 128 a good stir and see how it comes out on a bit of cardboard.

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Re. lighting, absolutely. The photograph looks a bit dark but it's still natural daylight (albeit evening so it was starting to fade a bit). The AP507C in particular looks almost yellowish to the naked eye in daylight. Despite the blue pigment content everyone knows about, it's still a warm hue. The scan mis-represents it if anything. RLM76 is also a funny one, it looks much more saturated scanned than it does to the naked eye in daylight, where it looks rather washed-out.

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but it's still natural daylight

Just to say that 'natural daylight' is not a constant. Its colour rendering properties actually vary, depending upon the time of day, cloud cover etc. etc. This was news to me when I found out!

Cliff

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Quite so - to be pedantic what I was trying to communicate was that this wasn't under my usual yellow incandecent light bulbs. But even still, even with north latitude fading light, the colour is perceived as much warmer than it looks scanned, which is evidenced to some extent in the photograph :)

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Interestingly, I found a few tins of 128 of the old Chinese batch at my local shop and bought one for testing. The paint was very badly separated but after a lot of scraping the bottom and mixing I got it to a usable state. The colour has a much more noticeable blue hue than the new UK batches, and it comes out closer to Matt, which I don't mind. To me it seems worth the effort to overcome the paint quality issues to get the colour I actually expect.

Also you mentioned Ocean Grey. I used Humbrol 106 on a Spitfire and it looks mostly fine but is also a neutral grey, not a hint of blue that even RAF Ocean Grey should have, never mind USN one. I actually use Humbrol 144 for USN 5-O.

Edited by Vlad
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I used Humbrol 106 on a Spitfire and it looks mostly fine but is also a neutral grey, not a hint of blue that even RAF Ocean Grey should have, never mind USN one. I actually use Humbrol 144 for USN 5-O.

I find that Hu106 takes on a blue hue once applied next to a Dark Green. Very subtle and it matches the RAFM chip exactly. Most Ocean Greys I find have the blue hue and when applied next to Dark Green look too blue, more blue than gray. I believe this shifting of the color is referred to as metamerization.

Tim

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