1/48 - BAe Harrier T.2/T.2A/T.2N/T.4/T.4N/T.8 by Kinetic - released

[ReccePhreak]

On 3/29/2018 at 12:45 AM, Laurent said:

Stencel SEU-3A seats. Wingman set made for the German Alpha Jet look right: https://wingmanmodels.com/wm/Pulsar/en_US.Store.display.88./wmf48002

Thanks for that info. Sprue Brothers has them in stock, as does rebelalpha on ebay.

Edited March 30, 2018 by ReccePhreak

[Homebee]

Source: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid0xrFbuwnXrXYF3d8PPUoybToKRaqeU6R12moe8qVTpfXkFmz3cvocscwTntAE5p1Rl&id=100083339612306

 

Quote

New Releases!

Item Code: R48.136.00

HARRIER T2/T4/T8 Two Seater Trainer

Engine, Exhaust Nozzles, Electronics, Radar or ARBS

Recommended Kit – KINETIC

 

Here: https://raymoco.com/products/copy-of1-48-harrier-t2-t4-t8-two-seater-trainer-engine-exhaust-nozzles-electronics-radar-or-arbs-recommended-kit-kinetic

 

 

 

V.P.

[TimB]

And the T4 had a folding nose?   I don't think so!  Also it wasn't an ARBS.  I hope the engine is more accurate...

 

Tim 

[NG899]

I do not believe it. The April Fool emerges on Groundhog Day!

 

Tim, lime you, looking at these, I’m out. I won’t be investing!  
 

I haven’t got a Scooby’s who Raymoco are but oh my they need to improve their research! I’m just dreading seeing T-birds sporting these wishful thinking.

 

The long nose was a Laser Ranger and Marked Target Seeker, not an ARBS, while the original pointy nose cone had an F95 camera in it facing to port.

 

Caveat emptor!

(Unless you want to make a “what if” or Project Cancelled Harrier of course.)

Edited February 2 by NG899

[ReccePhreak]

Glad I have everything I need to do an accurate (MOSTLY) 2-seat Harrier in Royal Thai Navy markings.

I agree with the previous post that Scooby's "research" leaves a LOT to be desired.  

Larry

[Dave Fleming]

26 minutes ago, NG899 said:

the original pointy nose cone had an F95 camera in it facing to port.

 

I blame the RN painting those T4N noses black.....

 

[Ad-4N]

Hard pass on that inaccurate "detail" set.  

[SleeperService]

There is also a complete ENGINE SET but TBH I have a few questions about that as well, a pity as it would be good to have one to show alongside a Harrier model. 

[sloegin57]

9 hours ago, NG899 said:

The long nose was a Laser Ranger and Marked Target Seeker, not an ARBS, while the original pointy nose cone had an F95 camera in it facing to port.

 

Caveat emptor!

(Unless you want to make a “what if” or Project Cancelled Harrier of course.)

Only on the single seaters Nick, the F95 was mounted under the rear cockpit on the T-Birds

 

Dennis

[ReccePhreak]

1 hour ago, sloegin57 said:

Only on the single seaters Nick, the F95 was mounted under the rear cockpit on the T-Birds

 

Dennis

I'll have to look for pictures of that installation, so I can put it on my Thai T-Bird.

Larry

[sloegin57]

58 minutes ago, ReccePhreak said:

I'll have to look for pictures of that installation, so I can put it on my Thai T-Bird.

Larry

 

As here -

 

 

 

 

None on the nose cone

 

DR

 

 

[71chally]

Did the Trainer's have swing open noses?

On the GR.3 the LRMT nose was attached by four turn buckle attachments, they were

a Would be undone and it was completely withdrawn from the aircraft.

Assumed the GR.1 was similar but could be wrong.

 

Wasn't the camera relocated in trainers due to the forward reaction jet being changed?

 

Edited February 3 by 71chally

[NG899]

(I posted the following, or something very similar to it from my iPhone earlier this morning but it seems to have not made it through the ether... Fingers knotted for this one.)

 

Good morning Dennis and BM-ers,

 

I hope life is treating you well Dennis, nice to now see one of your pics again too!

 

Dennis - you're right, I was being lazy/forgetful in referring to the single-seater when this is about the two-seaters. Yes, the camera was relocated on the T.2/4/8 to a position under the rear cockpit on the port side, just ahead of the intakes. I'm sure you'll also correct anything I get wrong in the following! AFAIK...

 

T2/4/8 and GR1/3 nose cones - The original and LRMTS did NOT swing but were secured by latches on both sides and slid off, taking care not to hit the camera (GR.1/3 // AV-8A/S) or LRMTS unit GR.3/T4. The nose cones on Sea Harrier FRS.1s and FA.2 DID swing to allow maintenance on the Blue Fox/Blue Vixen radars, their rectangular pivot joints are clearly visible on the port side cutting across where the nose cone joins the fuselage. 

 

No Radar on the T./2/4/8 or GR.1/3s!!! - They were NEVER fitted with radars. It's possible that some bright sparks at Ferranti / HSA / Bae / RAE / Farnborough may have contemplated this; even that drawings exist which Raymoco have had access to; if that's the case it would be interesting to know!

 

Two T.4s - XW267 and XW269 iirc - were used for the (Forward Looking Infra Red) FLIR 'Nightbird' trails to give the GR7s their night attack capability. Their LRMTS units were replaced by a FLIR unit, which was the unit on top of GR7/9 and T10/12s noses, but not the noses of GR5s.

 

Raymoco's Pegasus engines and nozzles - Looking at these, the first stage compressor blades look rather nice but are so far back in the kit as to be probably not worth the effort; considering the painting skills of most modellers these days. The engine tops and doors are a tad basic. The nozzles lack detail when compared with the kit ones. As the Dragons say: "I'm out, I'm not investing".  

 

In saying that I must make it clear that the reason I'm saying this on the basis of what I see and know means I do not trust Raymoco's research.

I cannot vouch for the quality of their printed products, which may be stunning.

I'm happy to discuss and work with Raymoco in the future to help them get things right. The offer is there. Drop me a PM here with you email address in it and we'll talk.

 

What can modellers do now to improve their Kinetic Harriers?

 

Engine Bays - If I was to open up the engine bays, I'd use the Black Dog resins, having seen them in the flesh:

https://blackdog-model.com/a48117-1-48-harrier-gr-1-3-engine-electronics-902544854/

 

These were produced using photographs and data provided by Andy Robinson who worked on Harriers for the RAF and I know well. He has a long history of helping AM manufacturers, e.g. CMK and Black Dog, with UK subjects including UK 1st generation Harriers and Harrier IIs.

 

General Improvements - As several items in the Kinetic boxes are from the first FA2 kit - which Kinetic acknowledge would be different if done now! - I suggest:

 

1. Black Dog's: https://blackdog-model.com/a48169-1-48-bae-harrier-sea-harrier-accessories-set-en/

 

OK, I'll admit it, I mastered these! (I get no royalties!) My motivation was to help modellers correct some basic errors with the SHAR, T-Harrier and GR1/3 / AV8A kits, and Ammo-MIG's AV-8S. The set includes:

• Improved Martin-Baker Mk.10H for the Sea Harrier FRS.1 and FA.2 > Other AM resin seats are fine for Tonkas or, with lightened side frames for the FRS.51, but no one had yet done the UK's SHAR seat.
• Improved Aden gun pods > For the missing blisters and vent holes
• The c.mid-1972 onwards standard 100-gallon tanks with the shorter asbestos phenolic material centre section > The kits' tanks are the original 100s with a longer mild steel centre section, fine on GR.1/1As from 1969 to late-71/mid-72; but not afterwards! Refer to photos if you're building an early jet!)
• Corrected and detailed pylons for the all 1st gen Harriers > The mounting holes in the wings also need their location changing as the kit pylons through their stores about 5mm too far forward; e.g. the tip of a 100-gal tank should be level with the rear of the small vent ahead of the starboard front nozzle.
• Fuel vent > The kit one is very basic.
• ADU-299 pylon adapters for the LAU-7A 'winder rails fitted on FRS.1 and Falklands GR.3s - the original large 'winged' pylon adapters used by SHARs until the mid/late-80s when the smaller winged type in the kit became standard across the fleet. Again, check photos!
• Air-to-air Refuelling Probe (Single-seat Harriers) > The kit's probe is rather anorexic and has a winged mounting which is much too small.

A main driver for doing the above set was the Harrier SIG's SMW 2022 display, "Harriers in the Roaring Forties", hence the focus on items to help the team improve the FRS.1 and GR.3 kits. I ran out of time to include the items in the subsequent...

 

2. Black Dog set: https://blackdog-model.com/a48195-1-48-british-harrier-190gallon-tanks-ferry-wing-tips-en/ which includes:

• Improved 190-gallon tanks for the Sea Harrier FRS.1 and FA.2 > The kits' tanks have some inaccuracies in panels, etc. PLEASE NOTE, the 190-gal tanks were never carried by RAF GR.1/1A/3s or T.2/2A/4/4As. I've seen them spoil some otherwise superb models of those airframes on this site and others, and at shows. Sad.
• The extended two-seater air-to-air refuelling probe fitted to T.2/4/8 airframes > Yes, it doesn't put the probe tip in exactly the same place for the front seat pilot in a T-bird as a single seat pilot would have, but it does include the 20.5-inch extension in the tube. (if anyone knows why this length was finalised upon - rear seat pilot visibility of the probe tip and basket, if the pupil up front was making a pigs of tanking, or this was the aerodynamic limit of the extension due to flex of the tube when tanking or under high-G manoeuvres, or stress on the mounting point caused by the above, or a combination of all factors, I;d love to know!
• The ferry wing tips used between 1969 and approx mid-1973 on GR.1/1As and T.2/2As > Famously used for the Transatlantic Air Race in May 1969 but also for Squadron trips to Cyprus; they provided little aerodynamic or fuel-saving advantage and were a faff to fit; so you can guess why they stopped being used!

 

I hope this helps all who land on this thread.

 

As ever, if you have any Harrier-related questions, please shout in my direction!

(The best way is a PM with your email address in it which I'll then reply to.)

 

All the best

 

Nick

 

(Now all I have to do is hope it lands correctly when I press Submit, 🤞 3, 2, 1...)

Edited February 3 by NG899

[hopkp]

3 hours ago, NG899 said:

(I posted the following, or something very similar to it from my iPhone earlier this morning but it seems to have not made it through the ether... Fingers knotted for this one.)

 

Good morning Dennis and BM-ers,

 

I hope life is treating you well Dennis, nice to now see one of your pics again too!

 

Dennis - you're right, I was being lazy/forgetful in referring to the single-seater when this is about the two-seaters. Yes, the camera was relocated on the T.2/4/8 to a position under the rear cockpit on the port side, just ahead of the intakes. I'm sure you'll also correct anything I get wrong in the following! AFAIK...

 

T2/4/8 and GR1/3 nose cones - The original and LRMTS did NOT swing but were secured by latches on both sides and slid off, taking care not to hit the camera (GR.1/3 // AV-8A/S) or LRMTS unit GR.3/T4. The nose cones on Sea Harrier FRS.1s and FA.2 DID swing to allow maintenance on the Blue Fox/Blue Vixen radars, their rectangular pivot joints are clearly visible on the port side cutting across where the nose cone joins the fuselage. 

 

No Radar on the T./2/4/8 or GR.1/3s!!! - They were NEVER fitted with radars. It's possible that some bright sparks at Ferranti / HSA / Bae / RAE / Farnborough may have contemplated this; even that drawings exist which Raymoco have had access to; if that's the case it would be interesting to know!

 

Two T.4s - XW267 and XW269 iirc - were used for the (Forward Looking Infra Red) FLIR 'Nightbird' trails to give the GR7s their night attack capability. Their LRMTS units were replaced by a FLIR unit, which was the unit on top of GR7/9 and T10/12s noses, but not the noses of GR5s.

 

Raymoco's Pegasus engines and nozzles - Looking at these, the first stage compressor blades look rather nice but are so far back in the kit as to be probably not worth the effort; considering the painting skills of most modellers these days. The engine tops and doors are a tad basic. The nozzles lack detail when compared with the kit ones. As the Dragons say: "I'm out, I'm not investing".  

 

In saying that I must make it clear that the reason I'm saying this on the basis of what I see and know means I do not trust Raymoco's research.

I cannot vouch for the quality of their printed products, which may be stunning.

I'm happy to discuss and work with Raymoco in the future to help them get things right. The offer is there. Drop me a PM here with you email address in it and we'll talk.

 

What can modellers do now to improve their Kinetic Harriers?

 

Engine Bays - If I was to open up the engine bays, I'd use the Black Dog resins, having seen them in the flesh:

https://blackdog-model.com/a48117-1-48-harrier-gr-1-3-engine-electronics-902544854/

 

These were produced using photographs and data provided by Andy Robinson who worked on Harriers for the RAF and I know well. He has a long history of helping AM manufacturers, e.g. CMK and Black Dog, with UK subjects including UK 1st generation Harriers and Harrier IIs.

 

General Improvements - As several items in the Kinetic boxes are from the first FA2 kit - which Kinetic acknowledge would be different if done now! - I suggest:

 

1. Black Dog's: https://blackdog-model.com/a48169-1-48-bae-harrier-sea-harrier-accessories-set-en/

 

OK, I'll admit it, I mastered these! (I get no royalties!) My motivation was to help modellers correct some basic errors with the SHAR, T-Harrier and GR1/3 / AV8A kits, and Ammo-MIG's AV-8S. The set includes:

• Improved Martin-Baker Mk.10H for the Sea Harrier FRS.1 and FA.2 > Other AM resin seats are fine for Tonkas or, with lightened side frames for the FRS.51, but no one had yet done the UK's SHAR seat.
• Improved Aden gun pods > For the missing blisters and vent holes
• The c.mid-1972 onwards standard 100-gallon tanks with the shorter asbestos phenolic material centre section > The kits' tanks are the original 100s with a longer mild steel centre section, fine on GR.1/1As from 1969 to late-71/mid-72; but not afterwards! Refer to photos if you're building an early jet!)
• Corrected and detailed pylons for the all 1st gen Harriers > The mounting holes in the wings also need their location changing as the kit pylons through their stores about 5mm too far forward; e.g. the tip of a 100-gal tank should be level with the rear of the small vent ahead of the starboard front nozzle.
• Fuel vent > The kit one is very basic.
• ADU-299 pylon adapters for the LAU-7A 'winder rails fitted on FRS.1 and Falklands GR.3s - the original large 'winged' pylon adapters used by SHARs until the mid/late-80s when the smaller winged type in the kit became standard across the fleet. Again, check photos!
• Air-to-air Refuelling Probe (Single-seat Harriers) > The kit's probe is rather anorexic and has a winged mounting which is much too small.

A main driver for doing the above set was the Harrier SIG's SMW 2022 display, "Harriers in the Roaring Forties", hence the focus on items to help the team improve the FRS.1 and GR.3 kits. I ran out of time to include the items in the subsequent...

 

2. Black Dog set: https://blackdog-model.com/a48195-1-48-british-harrier-190gallon-tanks-ferry-wing-tips-en/ which includes:

• Improved 190-gallon tanks for the Sea Harrier FRS.1 and FA.2 > The kits' tanks have some inaccuracies in panels, etc. PLEASE NOTE, the 190-gal tanks were never carried by RAF GR.1/1A/3s or T.2/2A/4/4As. I've seen them spoil some otherwise superb models of those airframes on this site and others, and at shows. Sad.
• The extended two-seater air-to-air refuelling probe fitted to T.2/4/8 airframes > Yes, it doesn't put the probe tip in exactly the same place for the front seat pilot in a T-bird as a single seat pilot would have, but it does include the 20.5-inch extension in the tube. (if anyone knows why this length was finalised upon - rear seat pilot visibility of the probe tip and basket, if the pupil up front was making a pigs of tanking, or this was the aerodynamic limit of the extension due to flex of the tube when tanking or under high-G manoeuvres, or stress on the mounting point caused by the above, or a combination of all factors, I;d love to know!
• The ferry wing tips used between 1969 and approx mid-1973 on GR.1/1As and T.2/2As > Famously used for the Transatlantic Air Race in May 1969 but also for Squadron trips to Cyprus; they provided little aerodynamic or fuel-saving advantage and were a faff to fit; so you can guess why they stopped being used!

 

I hope this helps all who land on this thread.

 

As ever, if you have any Harrier-related questions, please shout in my direction!

(The best way is a PM with your email address in it which I'll then reply to.)

 

All the best

 

Nick

 

(Now all I have to do is hope it lands correctly when I press Submit, 🤞 3, 2, 1...)

Thanks, really useful!