UK requests P-8A's

[Slater]

I guess this makes it official. Is this about the number that was thought to be required?:

http://www.dsca.mil/sites/default/files/mas/uk_16-26.pdf

[Jinxman]

Not sure about the numbers, but about time we replaced a lost operational capability.

[Dave Fleming]

9 matches the intended service number of Nimrod MRA4s. The good thing about the P8 is that if we need/want more there is a production line

[Marv]

Good move, UK.

[Graham Boak]

Given that the initial request for Nimrods was 22, there'd have been enough airframes around to have a production reserve. However the Ministry took too long to realise that they didn't need a full Cold War complement, and that they couldn't have afforded it anyway. Now, there's no real alternative.

[Julien]

Now, there's no real alternative.

Unfortunately you are right there. As much as I would have liked to see a Kawasaki P-1, it was never likely to happen.

[Paul Bradley]

P-8 production must be in full swing - there were tons of P-3s at the DM boneyard last week with new ones on the ramp for processing.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Paul Bradley

[Radleigh]

It's good we're getting something, happy with that. But a lost opportunity, the P-1 would of been so much better.

[alpine_modeller]

"There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale."

I guess this implies there will be no loan of U.S airframes to generate an early IOC date. Pity.

Also think the P-1 could fit UK operational requirements better. Not sure about an airframe designed to cruise at relatively high altitude being used to search for subs and ships-

Edited March 26, 2016 by alpine_modeller

[Julien]

Might we have cut a deal on some P-3's? seems to be loads available? I wonder how much life they have left in them?

[Romeo Alpha Yankee]

P-8 production must be in full swing - there were tons of P-3s at the DM boneyard last week with new ones on the ramp for processing.

Yep, 28 delivered to the USN (out of 122) and 6 (out of 8) to the Indian Navy.

The RAAF now has 12 ordered out of a total of 15 and the first will be delivered later this year.

[Richard E]

Might we have cut a deal on some P-3's? seems to be loads available? I wonder how much life they have left in them?

Probably less than some shiny new P-8s and the P-8s probably have more capacity for future development.

[Julien]

I am right the P-8 has no MAD boom?

[GMK]

I am right the P-8 has no MAD boom?

The P-8I (Indian) version does.

[Geoff_B]

"There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale."

I guess this implies there will be no loan of U.S airframes to generate an early IOC date. Pity.

Also think the P-1 could fit UK operational requirements better. Not sure about an airframe designed to cruise at relatively high altitude being used to search for subs and ships-

Not really, would have only been viable if we had done a joint effort and dropped Nimrod earlier. A bespoke Japanese design with Japanese systems would be rather difficult to adopt and expensive to support. We've been involved with P-8 for quite a few years and quiter a few from the MRA4 programme have been involved in bringing them into service,

[Richard E]

Not really, would have only been viable if we had done a joint effort and dropped Nimrod earlier. A bespoke Japanese design with Japanese systems would be rather difficult to adopt and expensive to support. We've been involved with P-8 for quite a few years and quiter a few from the MRA4 programme have been involved in bringing them into service,

I believe quite a few of the P-8's systems were developed from those that were originally produced for the Nimrod programme.

Edited March 27, 2016 by Richard E

[Dave Fleming]

And the Seedcorn personnel have shown they know how to use the P8 to find submarines, a scratch UK crew winning the USN as competition in a borrowed P8

[Slater]

Wonder if they'll retain the USN's paint scheme?

[colin]

It's good we're getting something, happy with that. But a lost opportunity, the P-1 would of been so much better.

For uk requirements how would the P-1 be so much better ?

[Antoine]

Good news, Atlantique det. might come back home soon. Certainly to be sent elsewhere.

[Romeo Alpha Yankee]

Wonder if they'll retain the USN's paint scheme?

I expect so, all P-8s so far have been brought into service with the USN and Indians in the Boeing grey with hi vis markings. Changing paint colours adds to the final cost.

[Truro Model Builder]

For uk requirements how would the P-1 be so much better ?

The P-1 has been designed from the outset as an MPA, unlike almost all other MPAs which are converted from airliners or transports, for a requirement that fits incredibly similar to those of the UK. It has four engines, which has always been the RAF's preferred option for its MPAs. It is also built to do the job at low level, which the P-8 cannot do as the 737 airframe was designed for medium/high altitude cruising. I remain yet to be convinced, as do many ex-RAF kipper fleet personnel, that ASW can be adequately prosecuted from medium altitude.

Having said that, the P-8 is a thousand times better than what we currently have in service to do the job, and I am very glad that we are getting back into the MPA business.

Edited March 28, 2016 by T7 Models

[Roland Pulfrew]

9 matches the intended service number of Nimrod MRA4s. The good thing about the P8 is that if we need/want more there is a production line

From an original requirement for 21 MRA4s. Nothing much has really changed in the UK maritime requirement since the MRA4 requirement was set.

Production line ends in circa 21/22 as Boeing want the P-8 production space for the next version of the 737.

[Roland Pulfrew]

It is also built to do the job at low level, which the P-8 cannot do as the 737 airframe was designed for medium/high altitude cruising. I remain yet to be convinced, as do many ex-RAF kipper fleet personnel, that ASW can be adequately prosecuted from medium altitude.

But the P-8 is doing the job operationally today at low level. The USN high altitude ASW capability isn't planned until P-8 increment 2 or possibly 3 so I don't see why this is an issue; nor, it would appear, do the 20 or so ex-kipper fleet personnel flying P-8s today with VX-1 and VP-30.

[magwitch]

The P-1 has been designed from the outset as an MPA, unlike almost all other MPAs which are converted from airliners or transports, for a requirement that fits incredibly similar to those of the UK. It has four engines, which has always been the RAF's preferred option for its MPAs. It is also built to do the job at low level, which the P-8 cannot do as the 737 airframe was designed for medium/high altitude cruising. I remain yet to be convinced, as do many ex-RAF kipper fleet personnel, that ASW can be adequately prosecuted from medium altitude.

Having said that, the P-8 is a thousand times better than what we currently have in service to do the job, and I am very glad that we are getting back into the MPA business.

The P-1 has the same wing as the Kawasaki C-2 transport so it's not exactly a 100% clean sheet MPA design.

The reason the Nimrod had four engines is that the original requirement was drafted in 1963. Modern engine technology means the case for four is less compelling now.