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atvd1020

Converting a 1/72 Polikarpov I-16 Type 5 to Type 10

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I've recently read the Osprey Aircraft of the Aces book on Republic of China Air Force aces, and want to build some of the Polikarpov I-16s they flew. However they were supplied with Type 10s, though no 1/72 kits of this form exist. I have the Amodel Type 5 kit; starting from this, would the only changes involve the windscreen and adding guns to the fuselage?

Thanks in advance for your replies.

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Hi atvd,

I'm no expert on the I-16, but I know a little about them.

Also I'm on my fourth Amodel I-16; I keep giving up on them as they are quite a challenge (for me at least..).

The main visual difference is that the Type 10 has machine guns atop the cowling, something I imagine would be a challenge to recreate on the Amodel type 5 as the fairings are quite prominent.

The curved windscreen/visor in the Amodel kit looks like it would be good for a type 10.

I need a Type 5 Canopy as mine has gone white, so if you end up with a spare one I'd be interested! ;)

It seems a better starting point would be the ICM type 18 kit. Some filling in of recesses in the centre fuselage is needed (designed for ski retraction), but the machine guns are there and also the cowl has a small extra intake characteristic of the type 10 (carburettor?).

An expert would be able to inform on the wings; I think the Amodel ones would require alteration.

My area is Spanish Civil War. I found this walk around very helpful.

http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/i16/i16madrid/i16madrid.htm

Good luck and I'm sure there's a lot I've missed, but know it's very possible to convert the ICM kits (and probably fun!) :)

All best regards

Tony

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Thanks for your replies! Based on the site linked above, the simplest route would be to add an Amodel spinner to the ICM Type 18 and filling in the recesses for skis. I'm sure I can find a Type 5 without a spinner to build to make use of the Amodel kit.

Regarding going the Amodel route: On closer examination of the kit trickiest part would be adding the cowling guns as its wings are more the '1938 production' of the Type 5 which is somewhere between the early Type 5 and Type 10 wings.

@TonyTiger66: A canopy from Denmark to Brisbane? Let me see how it goes before getting back to you on that ;)

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Thanks for your replies! Based on the site linked above, the simplest route would be to add an Amodel spinner to the ICM Type 18 and filling in the recesses for skis. I'm sure I can find a Type 5 without a spinner to build to make use of the Amodel kit.

Regarding going the Amodel route: On closer examination of the kit trickiest part would be adding the cowling guns as its wings are more the '1938 production' of the Type 5 which is somewhere between the early Type 5 and Type 10 wings.

@TonyTiger66: A canopy from Denmark to Brisbane? Let me see how it goes before getting back to you on that ;)

AFAIK the recesses for skis also necessitated rerouting the exhausts. Externally this meant that the lowermost pair of cowling openings was deleted, and the other pair (which now had two exhausts per opening) was moved outboard towards the wing root. This arrangement was kept on the latter Types.

EDIT'd for clarity.

Edited by Bonehammer

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Thanks for your replies! Based on the site linked above, the simplest route would be to add an Amodel spinner to the ICM Type 18 and filling in the recesses for skis. I'm sure I can find a Type 5 without a spinner to build to make use of the Amodel kit.

Regarding going the Amodel route: On closer examination of the kit trickiest part would be adding the cowling guns as its wings are more the '1938 production' of the Type 5 which is somewhere between the early Type 5 and Type 10 wings.

@TonyTiger66: A canopy from Denmark to Brisbane? Let me see how it goes before getting back to you on that ;)

Don't forget you'll need to remove the intake on the cowling top too. :)

Andy

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You definitely should use the ICM I-16 kit (both type 24 and 28 share the same plastic sprues). Only a few things need modification: exhaust on the bottom of the cowling, traingular intake on the top of the cowling, and the doors on the fuselage side have to be removed and the spinner replaced or streamlined.

Wing of the type 5 is completely different, with fabric covering, longer ailerons and no flaps, pretty useless for modification.

Also ICM kit is much more buildable (better quality of moulding).

You can also look for Hasegawa, but it is quite expensive and not very accurate.

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Hello all....

I've just found this post on the polikarpov.... must just recently got interested in this little plane. Could anyone guide to any good reference books... I've found a few sites. But just looking for some good material on the different variants..

Cheers

Mark

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Hello all....

I've just found this post on the polikarpov.... must just recently got interested in this little plane. Could anyone guide to any good reference books... I've found a few sites. But just looking for some good material on the different variants..

Cheers

Mark

Have you seen this?

http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Modeling/Polikarpov/I-16/Kit_Comparison/

And also the "I-16 Development Page" and "Family Tree" linked at the bottom of that page.

John

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Hello John.....

Cheers... Found the site few days ago :-) I attended Cosford at the weekend, oh and found a few books on the Polikarpov and the larger family of the aircraft... So Just need to build up a collection of these little beauties! So many to choose from, and some very interesting and colourful schemes! Its not until you read and look up about them, that it turns into a very interesting subject..... I think i have opened a big can of worms for myself! Im hooked!

Mark

Edited by maudesman

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Hey Mark - sorry to drive the hook in even deeper, but just in case you're not aware of it, here's a handy little decal sheet from Begemot:

http://www.begemotdecals.ru/showpos.php?lang=2&id=93

(Also available in 1/48)

Note that it's a two-sheet set - click on "1" just above the top left corner of the image to see the second sheet, and also the 4 pdf links for the instruction sheet pages.

John

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Hi John (and other I-16 fans),

Just to say thanks for the link to the decal sheet. A lufetime's worth of I-16 modelling there, with some fascinating subjects.

I read the instruction sheets and was fascinated to see paint instructions for type 10 in Spain call out for silver-grey undersides.

I had thought all SCW aircraft had blue undersides.

These little planes really are quite addictive.

I have yet to complete an Amodel kit, many have ended in the dustbin, but I feel I am getting closer to achieving this now.

Once I have, I'll post a WIP; there is certainly a way to defeat the Amodel without a (huge) bucket of filler! :)

All best regards

Tony

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Thanks John....

Im hooked deffently now! Too many to choose from! Damn..... Think ill have to buy my own little Polikarpov Fleet! Oh my, think a few hours overtime to pay for it now! LOL Just hope ICM, Eduard AND Amodel have enough in stock, of the little beauties! :-)

I have aquired Eduards 1/48 Type 24 profipack, must say i like the Guards scheme!

Mark

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Type 5's (and 6) were used by China, the 21st Chungtui (squadron) of the IVth Tatui (group) operated them in the defence of Nanking and Hankow. Vth and IIIrd Tatui also operated the Type 18 in small numbers which they called I-16 'III'. The Soviet volunteer units also operated the Type 5 in China in Chinese markings.

Nick

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Hello all again....

Can anyone give any advice on the ARK Models I-16's? Are they any good, or worthy of a purchase? Or should i just stick to the good deals you can find on the Eduard's Ratas? The more i look the more i want, think this could end up as a expensive interest in the Rata! I will have to be ruthless and get rid of parts of my large stash! LOL

Mark

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This page has links to 4 reviews of the Ark kit, including one here on Britmodeller:

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/226786-ark-models-48001-polikarpov-i-16

I can't offer you an opinion since I'm not familiar with 1/48 kits of this aircraft, but the sprue images in the reviews look very good; just as good as Eduard, to my eye. OTOH, if you can get the Eduard kit cheaply, why not?

John

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Cheers John....

Thanks for the info..... Ill have to give the Ark kits a thought. I did look at their webpage, did like the look of the double kit, with resin etc... But will have to way things up, as the Eduard are going fairly cheap... Plus are the little 1/72 ICM kits.... Oh too much to choose from...... :-) Did look at the Special Hobby 1/32 too...... Like a sweet shop!

Mark

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On 9/4/2016 at 6:03 PM, Nick Millman said:

Type 5's (and 6) were used by China, the 21st Chungtui (squadron) of the IVth Tatui (group) operated them in the defence of Nanking and Hankow. Vth and IIIrd Tatui also operated the Type 18 in small numbers which they called I-16 'III'. The Soviet volunteer units also operated the Type 5 in China in Chinese markings.

Nick

 

The Osprey book on Aces of the RoCAF mentions that the IVth Tatui received some Type 17s. Would these have been misidentified Type 18s? On the same topic, there are some 'Type 10' decal options for the I-16 in the Begemot Decals sheet, for aircraft of the 24th Chungtui/IVth  Tatui. Would these be Type 18s or Type 5/6s?

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4 hours ago, atvd1020 said:

 

The Osprey book on Aces of the RoCAF mentions that the IVth Tatui received some Type 17s. Would these have been misidentified Type 18s? On the same topic, there are some 'Type 10' decal options for the I-16 in the Begemot Decals sheet, for aircraft of the 24th Chungtui/IVth  Tatui. Would these be Type 18s or Type 5/6s?

 

I don't know for sure. Soulard refers to Type 18s delivered in small numbers to both 24/IV and 26/V (which was also operating Type 10s) whereas Cheung refers to Type 17s. According to Soulard the Chinese designated the Type 18 as E-16-3 or E-16III and the Japanese identified them in combat reports as 'E-19', presumably shorthand for the longer Chinese designation. 

 

I haven't seen the Begemot Decals sheet but 24/IV had received Type 10s at Lanchou in March 1939 for the defence of Chungking and then much later the first Type 18s at Hami in February 1941. They were then avoiding fighter combat (proving disappointing against the Zero) and the Type 18s were subsequently used in attempts to intercept the new Japanese recce aircraft perhaps because of their more powerful engine. The later use of the I-16s seems not as well known as the earlier 1938/39 period so the unit/type/date context is important.

 

Nick

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Type 17s were a cannon armed variant, and the first to have the ski accommodation and altered exhausts. In the ROC Aces book there is a photograph of one clearly showing the cannon; they are quite distinctive.

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On 3/24/2016 at 7:04 PM, John Thompson said:

Check this link; it shows quite well the main modification required to convert the ICM kit to a type 10:
http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=2123.0

John

 

Thanks for noting this, Sir. I am glad you approve of the measures I took. I regret the project lapsed: I did not like how the paint was coming out, then I got sick, and so it went to the 'cupboard of doom'.

 

It is a shame no one makes a straight Type 10 kit, and also that no one makes a useful Type 5 canopy (at least in 1/72).

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6 hours ago, Nick Millman said:

I haven't seen the Begemot Decals sheet but 24/IV had received Type 10s at Lanchou in March 1939 for the defence of Chungking and then much later the first Type 18s at Hami in February 1941. They were then avoiding fighter combat (proving disappointing against the Zero) and the Type 18s were subsequently used in attempts to intercept the new Japanese recce aircraft perhaps because of their more powerful engine. The later use of the I-16s seems not as well known as the earlier 1938/39 period so the unit/type/date context is important.

 

Nick

 

Thanks for this piece of information! The I-16 I wanted to build was one involved in combat with Zeroes on the 13th of September 1940 over Chungking, so that would rule out the Type 18. Cheung mentions the 24/IV had received some Type 17s by the spring of 1940, but simply says I-16s were involved in combat on 13/9, not specifying the type. Would it be safe to assume that those were Type 10s since there simply were fewer Type 17s? I'm also guessing the latter were used mainly as bomber interceptors.

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