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1/18 Spitfire Mk. XIVe - Race #80


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More stunning work Peter. I was very taken by the subtle recess you made in the top of this opening to accommodate the hinge. Lovely skilled modelling work

 

WIP1263_zpssa6htc1h.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Those hinges are a delight every time you add one Peter. Stunning work as ever.

 

Quote

it is only cheap masking tape and seems to be fine - the solvent thinner I have for the cement seems to just wipe away any residue so should be ok...

 

It was the cheap stuff that gave me grief. I find that isopropyl will "wet" it enough to remove it should it dry on. But as it's cheap I now remove or replace the stuff rather than leave it long term on anything delicate. Lesson learned and all that.

 

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Its exposure to sunlight that causes ordinary masking tape to harden up and become very difficult to remove. If the model is kept out of direct sunlight I'm sure it will be fine for a very long time. There are UV resistant masking tapes available which are usually blue in colour. Such as..

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evening folks :)

 

thanks for dropping in

 

so, on to whats been happening - I have been a bit slow lately as my day job has changed where I have double the responsibility and double the people for no more money (go figure...) so bouts at the bench have been limited by new demands..

 

..I needed to start making up the panel on the other side where the camera lens is - you can see here it is on TZ138 - just a window rather than set into a door like the other side...

 

WIP1269_zps0au97md7.jpg

 

..again the panel is laid out in tape on the model..

 

WIP1270_zpsj1ayyytd.jpg

 

..this is then detailed and the window laid out...

 

WIP1271_zpsnck47ddl.jpg

 

..and the panel before being rolled flat to stop all the detail looking 'blown'...

 

WIP1272_zpsnhanlsum.jpg

 

...now on to preparing the fuselage to attach the panel - it is masked and hinged to a bit of tape so the positioning is right...

 

WIP1273_zpsdvrjsuo1.jpg

 

..after that, the panel sitting below the camera window was prepped..

 

WIP1274_zps9amxudlp.jpg

 

..and both attached to the airframe..

 

WIP1275_zpswed5ktli.jpg

 

WIP1277_zpsii97c6yn.jpg

 

WIP1278_zps7g6okpr6.jpg

 

WIP1279_zps5jbg0qsy.jpg

 

more panels to come - I have a numbered order to do them in so they overlap in the right way - I also need to just do some more tests as these panels are from a new batch of metal and it seems to be reacting differently to the finishing process, the older stuff seems to polish up to a mirror finish, whereas this is needing a bit more work..

 

thats it for now...

 

TTFN

Peter

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Hi Peter,

 

Very interesting to follow this build.

 

If I may make an observation about the reference photo you have at the top of this post - should the FR camera window be curved like the fuselage? Or should it be an optically flat glass panel for the camera to 'see' through clearly? You can see in this photo of TZ198 that the camera panel is flat or 'dimpled in' compared to the fuselage skin. I haven't looked at many shots of this area on operational FR.XIV aircraft, but my work background in photography tells me this should be a flat glass panel. Do you have any clear shots of CF-GMZ to show this area?

 

Spitfire-FRXIV-RCAF-443Sqn-2I-M-TZ198-Ge

Edited by Steve in Ottawa
spelling
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I found these on Alamay, although NOT a photo of TZ198 but still the right mark I believe...

 

http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-supermarine-spitfire-mkxive-nh861-india-1946-69929438.html

http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-supermarine-spitfire-mkxive-tx994-1946-69929436.html

 

Camera windows appear inset and flat on the first photo and flush and flat on the second.  I know by experience with the 34th Photo Recon Squadron that camera installations vary from aircraft to aircraft and that this changed the type of window configuration on any given ship.  Camera Repair did that type of work concerning the 34th PRS.

 

TZ138 is also on these pages and has a window port that (IMHO) matches the second link above.

 

For your consideration!

 

Cheers,

 

PR

 

 

 

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20 hours ago, Steve in Ottawa said:

Hi Peter,

 

Very interesting to follow this build.

 

If I may make an observation about the reference photo you have at the top of this post - should the FR camera window be curved like the fuselage? Or should it be an optically flat glass panel for the camera to 'see' through clearly?

 

 

Thanks for the pic and the question Steve - thankfully the camera lens port is covered with a Canadian roundel so I don't have to worry about anything visible within it - but I have been stressing about is whether it is an optically flat glass panel or was the same contours as the fuselage - this is the evidence I based my conclusion on...

 

At top left is the Thai XIV with the optically flat panel - you can see at the top & bottom it is pretty close to being faired to the fuselage, but in the middle the recess is a few inches from the skin and should be visible in photos of TZ138. All the other pics are of TZ138 and as far as I can see there is no recess and in fact in some shots I think I can see the roundel curving with the fuselage so that is what I have gone with...

 

WIP1280_zpsxgsdjyo1.jpg

 

hope that convinces the court :)

 

back soon as still plugging away with more skinning..

 

TTFN

Peter

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I dunno, Peter. From the four-shot photo spread I'm reading it as a 'flat' panel for the roundel area. The positioning of the roundel over the window seems to indicate that there was a defined area to place it upon. In the bottom left shot of the four it looks like it is inset against the fuselage skin, much like the Thai aircraft configuration. Just spitballing here. It's a tough call.

 

On the original FR.XIV (vice the restoration photo at the top of this post) is the starboard camera window panel supposed to be the same or similar to the port one?

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I think I agree with Peter. In the first photo (top left) of TZ138 in the collage, I don't think the left hand side of the outer circle of the roundel would be visible if it were recessed as much as shown on the Thai example.

 

Cheers,

Bill

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Hmmm. The bottom left picture does seem to show a slight recess around the roundel, but it seems to be an even recess the roundel is sitting in.

Like mentioned above, if the roundel was on a flat surface, you would see it sitting deeper on the horizontal centre line.

It leads me to presume the recess is curved to match the fuselage. Also in the other photos, the roundel seems to conform to the curvature of the fuselage. 

 

Just my humble opinion though.

 

Matt

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As a self-confessed completely uniformed armchair commentator, it strikes me that if I were seeking to replace the panel on the real thing with a "blank", I'd stick a curved panel in unless the mounting options made it very difficult - in which case I'd just take the camera out and paint the window. Intuitively, I reckon one would want to minimise the drag.

 

Not sure that helps any, but in the spirit of the times, "Curved panel" gets my vote.

 

Kirk

PS/ Am I still the high bidder?

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From what I've found on the internet regarding the camera ports on Race #80 I agree with Peter's conclusions. Flush fitting.

 

My suspicion is that TZ138 may have had the optically flat windows prior to being converted to Race #80. The photo of TZ138 on cold weather trials in 1948 looks to show a recessed camera window on the starboard side. All the period photos of Race #80 in my opinion show that the camera ports had a flush fitting. They recent photos of the camera ports on TZ138 make me wonder if they removed the original glass and riveted a flush panel in their place when they decided to put the Canadian roundel over them.

 

Steve on the low back FR XIVe the starboard camera port just has a window, no hatch. In the photos I've found the same flat window is fitted on both sides and is recessed. As for TZ198 it was built at Aldermaston around the same as TZ138, but as a FR XIV. Photos show it has the recessed camera hatch on the port side and is likely to have the window on the starboard side. But I can't find a photo that confirms this.

 

There was a different camera port that was fitted to some of the high back FR XIV. These had a camera port where the glass was fitted in an aerodynamic blister on the side of the fuselage.

 

 

My thoughts on the subject...

Dave

 

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Good discussion as usual. Interesting that we're seeing different things in the reference photos. I'd love to see that area of the Thai aircraft from the same angles as the reference photos - it would an educational exercise in photo interpretation.

Edited by Steve in Ottawa
spelling, what else?
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I concur with you, Peter.  Dave's observation is what I would expect as well.  I agree with Steve that it would be neat to compare other photos as well!

 

Theory:  TZ138 had the optically flat (inset) camera windows as with its Thai counterparts.  I see what looks as a screw pattern on the plate which is the roundel.  Given the "gap" between the access door and the roundel, I tend to think that a flush/curved "plug" was screwed into the window frame.  That plate was painted with the roundel and is curved to the contour of the fuselage.

 

PR

Edited by Pastor Rich
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I've known that that there is a door with a window and an alternate door with that concave (?) fitting in place of the inset optical glass. Now I'm wondering the GMZ had this kind of door fitted after its RCAF use, or if there was another creative solution by the aircraft's civilian owner to modify the original FR door?  Has anybody seen a good photo of the wartime non-glass panel for an FR.XIV?

 

Again, let me say that this is a good constructive discussion and this in one of the reasons I enjoy the BM style of respectful debate. I have a future plan for a 1/48 TZ138 in its RCAF life on skis, and then as CF-FMZ as #80. This is all good stuff!

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To help settle the dust on this window thing I started up I dug through my own files on TZ138 and found photos showing that in its RCAF service the camera windows were covered over with that concave panel set-up on both sides, per the photo I dropped in of TZ198. The aircraft came over to Canada minus any camera gear, as the winter testing was not related to that equipment.

 

Interesting that after it got painted silver that the starboard side camera window was uncovered.

Hope I didn't add any stress to the discussion.:sorry:

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thank you gents for the helpful debate and the references :)

 

I am kind of settled on the window port being concave now - so that is how I will model it. I think it is inset slightly which is how mine is, but I can't see the flat panel as the depth just isn't there for me at the centreline..

 

so the next order in the panel lay down is the spine...

 

WIP1281_zpsc6ps7y87.jpg

 

..i found there is another slot for a canopy guide rail at the top of the spine too so cut that out and after laying the rearmost panel i set down the tape template for the one that runs up to the seat bulkhead. There is a lot going on here - it needs to come down the right height each side to set out the two lower rails, it needs to frame one of the camera doors, it has a fuel filler hole in it and it has the top slot canopy rail so these were all laid out or traced...

 

WIP1284_zps4g2n1xxb.jpg

 

then the panel itself was started...

 

WIP1285_zpsqlfzpszm.jpg

 

..all the detail added and I stared to shape it..

 

WIP1286_zpszcagd9vv.jpg

 

.. I put some dymo tape on the slot to help it form an even curve as I rolled it from below..

 

WIP1287_zps3kzd9s6r.jpg

 

..and fitted it and started to work the surface a bit..

 

WIP1288_zps2gdbmsjo.jpg

 

,,with the finished panel in place - i am happy with how it turned out as when laid down it seemed to hit the spot in all the right places..

 

WIP1289_zpstv5lpeq6.jpg

 

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WIP1290_zpsijsrffqh.jpg

 

..onto the next one - I am happy as I found one sheet of old stock litho so I know I have enough to finish now :)
 

TTFN

Peter

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3 hours ago, airscale said:

 

..onto the next one - I am happy as I found one sheet of old stock litho so I know I have enough to finish now :)

 

 

Finish?!  Now I'm torn between wanting to see this magnificent beast completed, and never wanting this masterclass in miniature engineering to end!:tmi:

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