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Radar

Avro Shackleton AEW Mk. 2 Details

95 posts in this topic

I think it is time to start a new thread regarding the newly released Revell Avro Shackleton AEW Mk. 2 Kit. There have been heated discussions and comments on the (now old) Rumour Monger section relating to this model.

Well now the kit is out, I received my example today from Jedlam Racing Models. I also received the Eduard Paint Masks in the same post which should make the spraying of the transparencies a lot easier.

I think that now is the time (as we are receiving the kits) to look at the kit and for those in the know and with the info to assist fellow Britmodelers with their builds. So I will kick the ball off with the fact that some of the aerials on the aircraft in the kit and at least one anti collision light are missing, see the photos below.

Revell%20Shack%20Upper%20Fuselage%202.jp

This is a shot of the Revell model taken at SMW 2015 it can be seen that the two white (I think UHF aerials) are missing as is the antic col light next to the "spark plug" and also the sextant aperture just behind the anticol light. All ringed in the photo below.

Fuselage%20Top%201.jpg

Don't get me wrong here I am not having a go at Revell, far from it, I am just trying to establish what we need to do to improve on an already excellent kit. I'm hoping that the Shack Experts on here can highlight any other bits that we need to ad to the kit before I start my build. I have several other photos of "Dougal" taken in the Manchester Museum and wow do those rivets stand out in them, an aspect of the kit Revell appear to have got spot on.

Thanks in anticipation.

Ian

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Starting from the top...

The escape panel in the cockpit above and between the pilots, and marked out by a neat little yellow decal on the SMW display model, isn't there on the AEW2 or MR2. To get out through that window you'd not only have to smash the perspex panel (not a blank panel as on the model - I can ony assume the aircraft researched had a repair patch. WR963 has a similar patch only covering half the panel.) you'd also have to smash your way through the overhead instrument panel holding magneto switches, radio and autopilot. Pretty pointless as each panel above each pilot seat is a jettisonable panel.

Above the Flight engineers station is a hole, which is where the flare pistol muzzle fits. Also used in service in hot climes as an extra air vent, or somethimes for popping a flag out of.

The DF loop is the wrong size and shape, it shouldn't be square or black, its oval and a brown resin colour. Its stated in the manual for the aircraft that it should be unpainted. Just in front of the DF loop, and offset to the port side is one of the small triangular IFF aerials

199409_10150184160532049_5587427_n.jpg?o

The two white blade aerials you point out are the V/UHF system, there's two more underneath the aircraft, but smaller.

Anticollision light you've already mentioned, and the little fitting at the side of the Orange Harvest mast (which is a probe with a cowl round it. Can't remember offhand what for...)

198039_10150184160602049_7533250_n.jpg?o

Further back on the port side, near the roof, is a rearward facing scoop (seen in the picture above to the right of the escape hatch) this is the exit for cooling air from the overhead equipment cabinets.

Further back from that is the rear escape hatch, which has no window in it, and its offset to the port side.

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There's also an incorrect window position on the Revell kit - there's no window in the fuselage in front of the leading edge of the starboard side of the horizontal tailplane, the window is present only in the MR3 when the Elsan switched sides in the fuselage.. There is however a very small window under the starboard horizontal tail which gives a little bit of light when you're crawling over the tailwheel bay.

The large long window positioned just forward of the crew door isn't a window, its a batch of four large flare dischargers with fabric tape over them. The perspex window I've only ever seen on a few (not all!) preserved MR3's instead of constantly having to replace rotting fabric tapes.

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Thanks Rich for the as usual very detailed reply and excellent photos.

I've now had chance to have a good look at the Revell kit instructions and noticed that the small white blade aerials near the ends of the wings mounted above and below the wings are also missing. Looking at old photos it seems these aerials were installed part way through the life of the AEW Mk. 2 as they are not visible in the early 1970's pictures. Fortunately no show stoppers so far just a bit of fetling really.

Thanks again.

Ian

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Believe from another thread the panels on the upper wing need correcting.

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Thanks Rich. I have just assembled the radome and it has a strange flat spot on the bottom Should it not be round underneath?

la

20160302_205319_zpsfn9itrwv.jpg

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Thanks for kick-starting this thread Radar

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Gents, I'm wondering if it's worth asking the mods to make this into a pinned post? I suspect both the Shacks are going to be popular for a while, some maybe even making the two together (or more, as and when more become available) so I wonder if it would be beneficial having one thread where everyone who's interested can refer to it to make the necessary improvements or alterations to their kits - or not - or just visit and browse?

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Believe from another thread the panels on the upper wing need correcting.

Not just the panels - the ailerons are MR3 ones.

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Gents, I'm wondering if it's worth asking the mods to make this into a pinned post? I suspect both the Shacks are going to be popular for a while, some maybe even making the two together (or more, as and when more become available) so I wonder if it would be beneficial having one thread where everyone who's interested can refer to it to make the necessary improvements or alterations to their kits - or not - or just visit and browse?

Any chance the mods can merge as many shackleton topics as possible? These threads on the shackleton are becoming fragmented and like shrapnel...........

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Yes please MODS please pin the thread.

I started this one as now the kit is out I wanted to get away from the incessant moans and rows about detail that is or is not there on the model. The kit is now out, it is what it is, let us all use the latent expertise productively to HELP US ALL build an accurate model of the AEW version. Please and no moaning about Airfix and Revell, com'on we love them both for doing what they do and I for one am very very grateful I didn't have to use that Aeroclub AEW conversion set I had in the attic (though the decals will be useful). Let's revel (sorry) in the enjoyment of building this kit ...at last.

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At the end of the day both kits are now out so the points on accuracy of research are irrelevant - we now get to work with whats out there. I'm happy to post scans from the manuals I have, some of the drawings (if I can scale them down far enough), and as many photos as the forum can handle.

What do you want to know or see? I'll do my best to help.

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Yeah, just a general Shackleton improvement/correction thread and not a "Revell knocks the socks off Airfix because...." soap box. Personally I'm just grateful to have two come along at once rather than none at all. As I said it's not compulsory for everyone modelling either (or both) to employ corrections galore, but for those that want to, they'd have a one-stop shop with all these posts in one place. After all, there's a pinned post in RFI on the Hobbyboss Tornado, and four in WIP.

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At the end of the day both kits are now out so the points on accuracy of research are irrelevant - we now get to work with whats out there. I'm happy to post scans from the manuals I have, some of the drawings (if I can scale them down far enough), and as many photos as the forum can handle.

What do you want to know or see? I'll do my best to help.

The flat spot on the radome , whats that about please?

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Just to pick up on a couple of points already mentioned,

The flat spot on the radome does exist, on both the Gannet and Shackleton AEWs. This may have been a clearance thing when originally fitted to the Gannet.

The kit ailerons are correct for the Mk.2 (ie MR.2 T.2 and AEW.2), indeed MR.3 ailerons wouldn't fit this wing. The wing detail looks right to me.

The marked upper cockpit escape hatch of the kit doesn't exist on the real aircraft, as mentioned in post #2.

Contrary to the kit instructions this should not be painted over as it is a clear roof panel, make note of this when you get to the painting stage. There is no need to use the yellow dashed decal (no 66) at all, the two yellow rescue arrow decals (No 76, 77) can be moved slightly outboard to point at the two upper pilot escape hatches.

http://ksaviation.co.uk/WL795/?page_id=23

The MR.3 aft stb'd window is included (points to an MR.3 coming!), but it is just a case of sticking in the glazing, a smear of filler, and paint over with the main airframe colour.

There should be a very small window under each tailplane, these are probably better represented by a gloss black decal, than opening up apertures in the plastic.

The ADF Loop roof aerial is indeed the wrong shape, should be easy to reshape and stick in place.

Also mentioned above, two large roof blade aerials were fitted, as were four smaller ones, one above and one under each wing tip. These seemed to have been fitted a few years after entering service, WL795 seemed to have gained them during 1976.

The Shackletons' trailing aerial was removed on AEW.2s, this is the molded in bulge just above the weapons bay just aft of the cockpit window line. This should be shaved or cut off.

There should be two anti-collision lights, one above as stated, and one underneath, right near the back just ahead of the rear observers position.

There are a couple of small fairings/outlets on the lower stb'd side, which aren't represented on the kit.

There should be two small whip aerials on the upper nose of the aircraft, just aft of the gunner/observer position.

http://s9.photobucket.com/user/pagen/media/st%20mawgan%20aircraft/WL795move3.jpg.html?sort=3&o=231

These are all very minor points, but including them will add accuracy to the already excellent kit.

I hope to add some detail pics at some stage.

Edited by 71chally
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Chally, Brilliant stuff just the sort of detail I was looking for. Especially those whip aerials on the nose. Also great pictures of yours in the Hangar.

It really helps when we have photos a referance too, so we can see the portions of airframe being discussed. As such I'm still not really sure of the exact location of that second anticol light underneath the fuselage.

Rich - what would really help would be a scan of the wing upper surface drawings so we can see which sections of detail (the discussed wing tank access panel lines) we need to be filling in or sanding off. Also a drawing of the location and shape of the DF loop would be helpful, thanks.

Must admit I have written a book including the AEW Gannet and Shack and have never realised that the AN/APS-20 radome was flat underneath!

Thanks all for the help and advice.

Cheers

Ian

PS Thanks MODS for pinning this thread makes life a bit easier.

Edited by Radar
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Looking at pictures of the Shackleton in the Manchester museum it looks like the cockpit overhead panel that should be left clear ( as stated revell suggest this is painted )is tinted.

Is this just a trick of the light, I'm sure anyone who has sat in one will know.

I also note the offending bulge on the port below the cockpit side that needs to be removed on the kit has a neat line of rivets where it used to be on Manchester example.

Very impressed by 71chally's knowledge.

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Driver,

This picture illustrates your point.

IMG_0887.jpg

IMG_0869.jpg

Something else I have noticed whilst studying photos of Dougal is the inside colours of the extended flaps. I had always thought that they were white inside but apparently not according to this:

IMG_0866.jpg

How I regret giving my Aeroclub "Dougal" decals away a couple of years ago.

Cheers

Ian

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I've fiddled with both Shack and Gannet radomes in the past, and noticed the flat spot.

However, I would say that Revell have perhaps over emphasised it or something (going from pic in post #6), so it might be worth sanding or shaving it so that the distinct flat area edge is removed or made less obvious - if you're fussy.

As mentioned previously aswel, the rear upper escape hatch should be solid, again a case of gluing it in and painting over in the airframe colour.

Worth noting that WL795 wore what I believe were unique markings to the AEW.2. During the late 1970s it temporarily wore 'Danger Propeller' markings on the engine cowls. http://ksaviation.co.uk/WL795/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/LOSc.jpg

In the early 1980s until it's retirement in Nov '81 it wore a Union Jack just ahead of the main crew door.

The two links in my previous post are very useful for detail shots, worth navigating around.

This one is quite useful for '95s interior shots, and WL756 if you scroll to the bottom http://www.flickriver.com/photos/tags/shackletonstmawgan/interesting/

and here, https://www.flickr.com/photos/56270329@N08/albums/72157628305057591- though note many exterior revisions to look like an MR.2.

Just a personal perspective on weathering as I seen it mentioned elsewhere,

The AEW.2s seemed to have been well maintained and always looked quite smart, they were originally painted in gloss Dark Sea Grey all over and this appearance lasted well for quite a few years, and to me never looked weathered as such. One exception was WL756 which towards the end of its life looked tatty - it didn't look 'weathered' though, it was a case of various paint touch ups and so appeared in various shades of grey over different panels. Surprisingly this was used as a display aircraft in '88/89.

I'm really chuffed with the choice of aircraft on the decal sheet, as I spent much time on WL795 helping to turn it into an MR.2, and parts robbing from WL756, so knew both machines intimately!

Nice shots Ian, WR960 is easily the best preserved AEW.2 and the best as a reference source as never been messed with since retirement.

It would be great if the Aeroclub Shackleton decal set would be reissued as it contained every AEW.2, plus many options fro the MR.2 & 3.

James

Edited by 71chally
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Just to add to James' points then put some more reference material up.

The small windows under the tail on the MR2/AEW2 - on the starboard side it is a true window, on the port it is an access point for the first aid box, so is lowere down and further forwards as its at floor level in the fuselage.

Okay, the wing panels. This is the reference, it covers all marks of Shackleton, 1 - 4 and AEW.

12321409_10154026227917049_1106002471480

This is how the kit is laid out.

12814000_10154026228047049_1084990643337

This is how it should be.

12814704_10154026227912049_8418789170523

Edited by richw_82
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Here's the canopy.

12814000_10154026242187049_7646111057867


DF loop info on the way, I just have to find it. Two house moves inside six months means I'm a bit disorganised!

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Window under the tail.

12042692_10154026257402049_6137420423423

UHF aerials out on the wings. Upper and lower are in the same location.

12803258_10154026257377049_2342424701132

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Thanks Rich. I have just assembled the radome and it has a strange flat spot on the bottom Should it not be round underneath?

la

20160302_205319_zpsfn9itrwv.jpg

The Radome does have a flat spot, you can see it better on the images on this link

http://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=51813

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What a shame they've painted the perspex grey, totally ruined a good paint job.

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