Jump to content

Ships plans - that's me


brooker

Recommended Posts

A bit of a long shot I know, but I've been looking for pictures and plans of the SS Northfield for some time now without much success.

98 years ago on Thursday she was torpedoed by U-60 SW of Lundy and lost with all hands, one of whom was my great uncle, a 19 year old AB.

I'd like to scratchbuild a model of her if I can find enough info, the best I've come up with imagewise is a painting which may or may not be her. Any help would be much appreciated.

Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Shouldn't think you will find plans anywhere, as that was a pretty obscure shipyard. But a lot of these coasters were very similar - drab in appearance and uncomfortable to sail in! Here is Ashfield, I built some years ago. Different company, despite name and similarity!

Bob

Ashfield_Large.jpg

Edited by ShipbuilderMN
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here you are:

http://www.photoship.co.uk/JAlbum%20Ships/Old%20Ships%20N/slides/Northfield-01.jpg

I doubt whether the painting is the right one. The above Northfield was a British coaster.

Bob

Hi Bob

Unfortunately I'm pretty sure that one isn't the Northfield I'm looking for, I found that photo some time ago, and another that cropped up on ebay of the same ship taken in the 50's.

The painting, however, is promising but I can't prove it.

The name is right, as are the funnel colours and house flag.

The style of the painting is also right for the time, I have a couple of original watercolours of the sailing ship "Starling" which my Great Grandfather was Master on, although a few years earlier, they are very similar in style.

Field line only operated between 1902 and 1919, and as far as I can ascertain only ever operated 5 ships, all ex Ruthen & Co. Northfield, Eastfield, Westfield & Huddersfield plus one other I've yet to identify.

Huddersfield was wrecked on Hartland Point, not far from where Northfield went down, but fortunately without loss of life. Photo's of the wreck plus the tonnage/dimensions indicate that although built in a different yard, if the painting is the Northfield I'm looking for, she would have been a near sister to Huddersfield.

The flag hoist in the painting (SHWP) should indicate the ship's call sign, what I need to find is some document listing both callsign and official number (114672) to tie them together.

I'd agree that finding original plans is unlikely, but if you don't ask....

Another cracking model there, Bob, but not the usual "signature" Parker pen, I see a Papermate one has slipped in there! ;-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The official number and identification letters will be in Lloyds Register. Unfortuntaley, I have a gap in my registers between 1900 and 1923!

My Ashfield was built years ago when I first started putting a pen in front of them! There is a postcard of the painting of Northfield on Ebid at the moment!

Bob

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Bob

Unfortunately I'm pretty sure that one isn't the Northfield I'm looking for, I found that photo some time ago, and another that cropped up on ebay of the same ship taken in the 50's.

The tug alongside the Northfield is MSC Quarry which was built in 1951. This scene would make the possible location as either Salford Docks or Ellesmere Port; however, the view could be of Northfield entering one of the locks in the Manchester Ship Canal.

When it comes to signal letters (flags, callsigns, pennants), there is another element to note in that signal letters were completely reassigned around 1924. This means that a vessel built before 1924 would have been allocated a set of signal letters but these would have changed after 1924, even without changing name, or owner.

I suffer a similar gap in my records as my LR's also have gaps up to 1926.

Edit - here is a link to the names of those who died when the ship sank, plus the name of the cemetary/memorial location.

Richard, I apologise that your thread has gone off astray a little but you have brought together some interesting parties with your thread. The majority of subjects on BM are aviation related but you have opened up a maritime thread that has got a few of us talking, and contributing, together. Thank you!

Mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the confirmation of the date of the tug Mike, and also possible locations, interesting mainly for elimination purposes.

Re-assignment of signal letters I was aware of, and is irrelevant in this case as the ship was sunk in 1918! The painting in Field Line colours would date to between 1903 & 1915 - post Ruthen & Co bankrupcy & prior to being sold to Harry Keep / requisitioned as an RFA auxilliary. She was carrying coal from Glasgow to Devonport (presumably fleet bunkers) when sunk.

I also recollect reading somewhere that the code flags themselves changed at some point (post WWI?), so the flag hoist may not actually read SHWP.

All being well I'm planning visiting the SS Great Britain in Bristol en route to Devon on Friday, hopefully the Brunell institute there will have at least one copy of LR for the relevant period, and I'm not holding my breath, but I'll check for plans in the David MacGregor collection

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mike, I'd found that page before but the pennant number hadn't registered, thanks for pointing it out!

I'm presuming this would have just been used for signalling purposes and not painted on the hull.

I'm guessing she'd have been painted all over grey by the time she was sunk, but I'd love to see photo's of her (both sides of course) in a dazzle finish.

Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Richard, I apologise that your thread has gone off astray a little but you have brought together some interesting parties with your thread. The majority of subjects on BM are aviation related but you have opened up a maritime thread that has got a few of us talking, and contributing, together. Thank you!

Hi Mike,

I seem to "wander over yonder" (at 69) when I reply to any of the threads in this forum, so don't be concerned about the thread going off topic, for example, there was a thread about a museum at RAF Halton and my father was an Halton Apprentice, he joined up at 12 by fibbing about his age and was involuntarily transferred from the RAF to the Navy on HMS Tracker, a Submarine Hunter-Killer Aircraft Carrier and did 2 convoys to Russia (where they were treated as heroes), towards the end of the War, (I've told the stories he told of his time onboard) after which Tracker was returned to America under the Lend Lease program and my father was based in Aussie in charge of a group of men, like the American SeeBee's, whose task it was to go in with the first wave of troops attackingJapaneseheld islands, to put down temporary runways, to get the fighter aircraft in, quickly - fortunately, I suppose, the War ended before that happened, otherwise I might not have been here now - or someone else might have been my Dad - or I might have ended up as a girl - in today's age, that would probably have not been a bad thing to be.

I've loaded 186 pix on Photobucket, of my Dad's HMS Tracker pix from WW2, my Pocher 18 cars collection (in part) and the detailed scale card warships I used to build, mainly ironclads - today is the day, I hopefully start posting them, in the various forums, as I work out how.

Richard

Mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All being well I'm planning visiting the SS Great Britain in Bristol en route to Devon on Friday, hopefully the Brunell institute there will have at least one copy of LR for the relevant period, and I'm not holding my breath, but I'll check for plans in the David MacGregor collection

I visited SS Great Britain in 1990, when I visited my parents from my rented home in Aussie - back then, she was in dry dock and work had not really begun on her and we could not have a look inside the hull, but I did walk under the hull, which from down there seemed huge.

Guess SS Great Britain looks much better now.

Richard

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Richard if you let us know what model you are building its likely youll find a WIP (work in progress thread on here) to help, giving you hints and tips on construction.

All the best Chris

Hi Chris,

I'm not building any plastic models yet - I have not decided which one - I have 2 x Italeri 1/12 Fiat racing cars, the 806 and the other one and a 1/8 Monogram Corvette and a 1/8 Revell Jaguar, which has been partially built and probably needs dis-assembling and rebuilding and an Ichimo 1/200 IJN Yamato kit which I've had for years, about 6 feet long, which I'd quite like to have for R/C, if I can work out how - plus a number of Pocher Rolls Royce Sedanca kits that need assembly and a Rolls Royce Torpedo I had to strip down because it arrived with a busted front axle and broken front mudguards - progress was going OK - until I met and my latest lady partner moved in, some 18 months ago and the Torpedo got pushed aside - the honeymoon period is over, so I shall probably get back to something, sooner or later........being retired is a plus.......not having to work, anyway.....

Richard

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do not regret growing older. It is a privilege denied to many.

That simply means, "Do not make the mistake which kills you", those of us who live to an older age, do so, because we have been lucky enough to survive thus far, by not doing risky things and looking left, right and left again, before crossing the road.

Met a young man living around "here" about a year ago - he was married with 2 kids. He left a tool up on the scaffolding, where he worked, that he wanted and nipped up, without putting on his safety gear and slipped and fell off and died on impact. QED. His young wife and kids moved back to New Zealand, absolutely devastated..without him.

Life is precious, especially good health and what seems to happen is the more you exercise and exert yourself in your youth or play physical sports - are the things which come back to haunt you as you grow older with pain and lack of mobility - I am fortunate at 69 to be without pain or discomfort, my partner, as above used to play netball and she has had to have 2 knee replacements and eventually a hip replacement because of that period in her youth.

Take a tip from an oldie (me) and limit the physical sports in favour of an enjoyable old age and don't make the mistake which kills you !!

We are after all, a long time dead.

Richard

Mike

Edited by brooker
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks very much - what sort of Filler?

Thanks,

Richard

Richard, you can make your own filler with talcum powder and super glue. There are a number of brands on the market that you can buy at your local hobby shop, depends what's available in your area.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow, that's easy - looks like Polyfilla might have the same result, as long as it remains stuck to the plastic, once it has dried out.

Dave:

Whilst I don't have a plan for Northfield, I might have a plan from a book I got on English Coasters of that period, by Lambert, if my memory serves me correctly - perhaps a plan of a similar coaster, with the same superstructure and hull lines, if that would be of any help?

Richard

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...........The flag hoist in the painting (SHWP) should indicate the ship's call sign, what I need to find is some document listing both callsign and official number (114672) to tie them together.

I have many Lloyds Registers, but only from 1924 onwards, so I asked a fellow enthusiast to check these details. This is an extract from Lloyds Register 1909:

NORTHFIELD 1901. 1,099grt. 1,938dwt. 1,329net.

Off No. 114672 Callsign: SHWP

Builder: Tyne Iron Shipbuilding Co; Willington Quay. Yard No. 133

Length: 288ft. Breadth 43ft. Depth: 18ft 9in

Focsle length: 30ft. Bridge deck: 73ft. Poop deck: 27ft

Owner: Northfield SS Co. Ltd, London

Managers: Ruthen & Co. Ltd.

The focsle, bridge and poop dimensions would confirm an engines amidships vessel, as in the painting, and the signal letters also match with the registered data. This little exercise in research has helped me as my friend has offered to sell me that 1909 edition of Lloyds Register!

HTH

Mike

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Mike

Apoloigies for not getting back to you sooner, been away for a few days the rather busy when I got back.

The trip involved a visit to the SS Great Britain and the Brunel Institute, fantastic library, including all David MacGregors books so heavily modelling orientated. Staff were most helpful and I got to examine 5 original copies of LR - 1902, 1915, 1917-18, 1918-19 & 1919.

The info you posted has a typo, all the entries for Northfield I saw quote 2099 GRT.

1902 has the same owner/manager as you quote for 1909. Owner isn't a problem, it's a single ship company set up to limit losses to the parent company, still happens today. The manager however is intriguing as Ruthens allegedly went into receivership whilst Northfield was on the stocks, and all their ships (6) were bought by E. Jones & Co of Cardiff who then set up Field Line to operate them.

I've been able to interpret most of the entrys for Northfield, but there's a few little bits you might be able to clear up for me if your copies of LR list abbreviations used

SteelScSr is Steel construction, Screw propulsion, ???

Equipment letter "s" ?

FK under registered dimensions - False?? Keel

WB=CellDBa&uE110'f122'551tAPT39t

Water Ballast = Cellular Double Bottom a??&u??E?? 110feet f?? 122feet 551tons Aft Peak Tank 39tons

The painting I found on the internet is definately the right ship, and now I know what it looked like and it's dimensions I should be able to adapt plans of a similar ship from one of my Waine books, there's a few likely candidates in British Steam Colliers.

That just leaves me with the colour conundrum....

Dave.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I took the details of the LR 1909 over the phone so could well have got a typo in there. I won't get the actual book for a week or so but will re-check the details for you when I do receive it.

Mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...