Battle of Britain Hall RAF Hendon

[Meatbox8]

The Dinosaur was last seen being examined several Chinese gentleman

It's where about are a mystery now but I believe Nanny Is on the trail

Are you alluding to One of Our Dinosaurs is Missing? Ha ha. I remember going to see it at the pictures.

[Vicarage Vee]

The 'New Museology' that Hhhalifaxxx describes is an 'interesting' theory. I can think of two of my favourite museums that don't appear to follow this: The British Museum and The Pitt Rivers in Oxford. Notably, they are almost always heaving with visitors who look engaged with the exhibits. There is hope.

[Meatbox8]

The 'New Museology' that Hhhalifaxxx describes is an 'interesting' theory. I can think of two of my favourite museums that don't appear to follow this: The British Museum and The Pitt Rivers in Oxford. Notably, they are almost always heaving with visitors who look engaged with the exhibits. There is hope.

I think what was done to the British Museum was a fantastic example of how to modernise and make more accessible an already great place. The first time I walked in to the new hall where the library was it took my breath away. It's a fantastic inner space.

[vince14]

Of course we would all be careful and would never handle them carelessly or do any damage to their airframes.

Sadly that isn't the case. There are plenty of tales of museum exhibits (both aircraft and otherwise) that have been damaged - sometimes irreparably - by over-enthusiastic 'armchair experts' or, even worse, deliberately vandalised by 'collectors'. Little Johnny's sticky fingers are the least of the problems.

We enthusiasts can take things too far. It seems that the modern trend for shining a laser pointer at aircraft in flight is not mainly performed by 'yobbos', but rather aircraft spotters playing a game called 'Laser Tagging'.

[Meatbox8]

Sadly that isn't the case. There are plenty of tales of museum exhibits (both aircraft and otherwise) that have been damaged - sometimes irreparably - by over-enthusiastic 'armchair experts' or, even worse, deliberately vandalised by 'collectors'. Little Johnny's sticky fingers are the least of the problems.

We enthusiasts can take things too far. It seems that the modern trend for shining a laser pointer at aircraft in flight is not mainly performed by 'yobbos', but rather aircraft spotters playing a game called 'Laser Tagging'.

I find it quite staggering that anyone with any interest or understanding of aviation would be stupid or reckless enough to do this. There really is no accounting for some people. The sooner this is clamped down on the better. The consequences of a disabled A380 over central London do not bear thinking about.

[Truro Model Builder]

We are wandering off the topic here, but I have to take issue with comments made recently by certain 'experts' that it is aviation enthusiasts who are doing stupid things with laser pointers.

Please see here:

http://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=71500

And back on topic.

Edited March 8, 2016 by T7 Models

[Meatbox8]

Quite right. Getting right back to topic it is an excellent time for super-detailers to visit.

[tonyot]

***Of course we would all be careful and would never handle them carelessly or do any damage to their airframes***.

Sadly that isn't the case. There are plenty of tales of museum exhibits (both aircraft and otherwise) that have been damaged - sometimes irreparably - by over-enthusiastic 'armchair experts' or, even worse, deliberately vandalised by 'collectors'. Little Johnny's sticky fingers are the least of the problems.

I think that the comment that you are referring to might have been made tongue in cheek and not seriously?

Tony

Edited March 8, 2016 by tonyot

[vince14]

We are wandering off the topic here, but I have to take issue with comments made recently by certain 'experts' that it is aviation enthusiasts who are doing stupid things with laser pointers.

Please see here:

http://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=71500

And back on topic.

I'm not saying that it's only spotters, but there is a small element within the hobby which seems to think it's OK to do it (as there are with those flying drones too close to aircraft, and with those who take a 'souvenir' from an aircraft in a museum).

I know for a fact that BTP issued a memo to officers working around airports to be on the lookout for people pointing anything other than a camera at aircraft (which specifically mentioned checking 'spotters areas').

I think that the comment that you are referring to might have been made tongue in cheek and not seriously?

Tony

True, but there's still an selection of aviation enthusiasts and modellers who seem to think that air museums should be their private property, on which they can do as they like, and that the 'Great Unwashed' should be barred.

[Meatbox8]

I'm not saying that it's only spotters, but there is a small element within the hobby which seems to think it's OK to do it (as there are with those flying drones too close to aircraft, and with those who take a 'souvenir' from an aircraft in a museum).

I know for a fact that BTP issued a memo to officers working around airports to be on the lookout for people pointing anything other than a camera at aircraft (which specifically mentioned checking 'spotters areas').

True, but there's still an selection of aviation enthusiasts and modellers who seem to think that air museums should be their private property, on which they can do as they like, and that the 'Great Unwashed' should be barred.

One would hope that responsible fellow spotters, who I'm sure are the majority, would also look out for this. As for 'enthusiasts' who break off bits of aeroplane for their collection, they rather remind me of those despicable people who steal the eggs of endangered birds.

[AWFK10]

A more "remote" location would allow more space and a more rational arrangement of the exhibits. At the same time been so close to London means that it's possible to visit the museum as part of a visit to the City. My visits always take place over a couple of hours I manage to find during business trips, I can't hope to visit Cosford in the same way. Now my case may be unusual, but how many potential enthusiasts may be in London as part of a visit with their family ? If I'm in London with the family I can jump on the tube and visit the museum in an afternoon while wife and kids see something else, can I do this if the museum is away from the city ? As the Italian Air Force museum has been mentioned, this is actually a good example of what I mean: this museum is not far from Rome but it's not well connected and is far enough to require driving from the city. How many visitors who see Rome will visit the Museum ? Almost none. With today's low cost airlines more and more people travel by plane even to visit cities within their own country, a remote location means missing on a huge number of potential visitors. Pros and cons here, ideally the location of such a museum should be in an area with enough space but connected well enough to a large city, ideally London (sorry for all non Londoners but where people tend to go).

I agree. I live 175 miles from London but I can get there in a couple of hours via a direct train service, transfer straight to the Underground at Kings Cross and walk from Colindale station to the museum. If I'm having a break in London with my wife, there are things for her to do while I take a low cost and reasonably quick trip out to Hendon. If the museum was relocated, say, to Salisbury Plain as one contributor suggested (and he had a valid argument), I certainly wouldn't be visiting it again. As a parallel, I called at Jack Beaumont's bookshop on Holloway Road quite a few times to browse and buy over the last 20 years it was there; visiting its successor in Tunbridge Wells is completely impractical for me. I've been to Cosford, Yeovilton and Duxford just once, in each case more than two decades ago. I was impressed by all of them but I visited the first two when I was in the area on holiday (a day trip is a non-starter) and Duxford required three changes of train. Yeovilton was a pain to get to by public transport too, as I recall. In those days, I was (a) a lot younger and ( a bachelor, with only myself to please. It's not likely I'll make any of those trips again in the foreseeable future - but I'm toying with the idea of another trip to Hendon in a few weeks.

[dambuster]

Perhaps the problem is that the current RAF Museum at Hendon is trying to be everything to everyone, and succeeding at nothing.

I think that it could be significantly reduced in size whilst remaining at Hendon to include a smaller number of iconic RAF aircraft along with a series of side displays and interactive exhibits suitable for the average family to consider worth paying an entrance fee for, an RAF History museum if you like.

The income could be used to fund an RAF Aviation museum, at a different loaction (maybe less accessible) where the less well known and rarer aircraft could be displayed, with the idea of providing an environment for aircraft enthusiasts to get up and close in a controlled environment. This would be free at point of entry, the cost of travelling their being realised in the value to the enthusiast.

Peter

[Max Headroom]

The footprint of Hendon is fine, it's just how it's laid out. If you demolished the buildings and built something from the ground up, there would be more than enough room. However due to the historic nature of the site that will never happen, effectively sterilising any effective redevelopment and optimum use of the site.

So, do you stick with Hendon or move to (say) Cosford? If you sell the site for redevelopment any developer would need to deal with the listed building status. But if a developer could obtain listed building consent to demolish the hangars, why not the RAFM itself? It's a conundrum.

At worst, we have an organisation that has airframes that it can conserve/restore to display or store. I would rather have a fully restored Hampden waiting for somewhere to display rather than a space looking for exhibits......

Hang on a mo, the Manchester Museum of Science and Infustry needs exhibits. What doesn't the RAFM take over the facility..........?

Trevor

[Heraldcoupe]

Hang on a mo, the Manchester Museum of Science and Infustry needs exhibits. What doesn't the RAFM take over the facility..........?

The official line is that MOSI's Aviation Hall will be closed at some point in the future. The building isn't owned by the museum and is in need of substantial repair, which is why the upper gallery has been closed. I've seen no timescale, but the organisation has been quite open on which way it's heading,

Cheers,

Bill.

[Vicarage Vee]

If looking for a large (very large) aircraft related space to refurbish to house exhibits then Cardington must have been a prime contender. Sadly I fear that would be far too costly to contemplate now.

[Meatbox8]

If looking for a large (very large) aircraft related space to refurbish to house exhibits then Cardington must have been a prime contender. Sadly I fear that would be far too costly to contemplate now.

I think I heard they were building Airships there again.

[Britman]

If as it is now Hendon and Cosford remained separate museums under the umbrella title RAF Museum, why not focus Hendon on the years upto 1945 and Cosford beyond. The Hendon site has historical buildings and would be more suitable for the early years. Cosford on the other hand presumably has the potential to house the jet age and consequently the larger items. The ideal of one site fits all is just a pipe dream anyway. Maybe then some or all the aircraft can come down to the floor. I would just like to underline the importance of getting the largest aircraft under cover for as I referred to in a previous post they will be lost forever ( Beverly, BA collection, Duxford T29 etc ).

Edited March 9, 2016 by Britman

[Truro Model Builder]

A number of the aircraft at MOSI -including the Shackleton- are on loan from RAFM, ironically.

[Marvel Onkey]

If as it is now Hendon and Cosford remained separate museums under the umbrella title RAF Museum, why not focus Hendon on the years upto 1945 and Cosford beyond. The Hendon site has historical buildings and would be more suitable for the early years. Cosford on the other hand presumably has the potential to house the jet age and consequently the larger items. The ideal of one site fits all is just a pipe dream anyway. Maybe then some or all the aircraft can come down to the floor. I would just like to underline the importance of getting the largest aircraft under cover for as I referred to in a previous post they will be lost forever ( Beverly, BA collection, Duxford T29 etc ).

I live in Herefordshire so I'm used to being miles from anywhere, but as an enthusiast of WWII planes mostly I'd regret that part of the collection going to Hendon, likewise it would be much harder to visit the museum if it were all centralised- at the moment it isn't a short journey to Cosford, but it is a daytrip; getting to London is a serious commitment of time and money from here.

[Max Headroom]

There's an open cockpit evening on 22nd March

http://rafmuseum.mobi/london/whats-going-on/events/open-cockpi/

Trevor

[Britman]

I live just next to Manston airport and getting anywhere is hike. But I will be at southern expo Hornchurch as Telford is too far for me. It sounds a bit off topic but I hope you get my drift. Wherever "it" is it will not be convenient for everyone.

[charlie_c67]

Having been to both Hendon and Tangmere in the past week I found the contrast and similarities between the two rather surprising.

BOTH suffer from a lack of clear directions around the place, I think the BoB hall at Hendon was the only one that gave a clear idea of the route one should take to see the exhibits in order. This was particularly frustrating at Hendon in both the bomber hall where I found myself walking round the hall backwards, and the main hall where I arrived at the exit after only seeing a third of the exhibits. Both were dark and the lights that were on caused flaring whenever you try and take pictures. Equally the BoB hall had lots of lights on so still flaring when taking pics! I think this is down more to the type of lighting used and the associated problems. As has been suggested, LED lights are the way forward, cheaper to run, and come in a variety of flavours. Only problem is the initial cost of outlay. As for the aircraft themselves, I think that perhaps one answer would be the option to go round with an audio track with memories or experiences of real pilots, or information on the exhibits depending on which you want. Wasn't too impressed that you could only get 6 hours for a museum that needs more than that to do it justice! Maybe the answer is three sites, Cold War at Cosford, WWI and interwar at Hendon and WWII somewhere else? Better directions would help too!

At Tangmere they tired to cram too much into the space they had, as well having a few things duplicated, think I read the thing on Johnnie Johnson three times! I think this is something that affects all of the Smaller museums as the Midlands Air Museum had a whole corner filled with stuff just sat there, including some interesting prototype mock up models. I realise they're often run by volunteers and as a result you sometimes wonder how does one suggest improvements without upsetting those running it, but there is a lot of precious tidbits hidden away that could be better presented. On the plus side they did actually explain the dimmed lights, as well as separating out the papers, uniforms, paintings and medals from the actual aircraft. This allowed proper preservation of the delicate artefacts whilst keeping the aircraft that was under cover in a very light and airy pair of halls, much clearer than at Hendon. Unfortunately some aircraft had to be stored outside, subject to the whims of the weather, but at least you could see them more clearly!

Ultimately, all museums have good and bad points, it's how the curators/volunteers react to feedback is the question.

Incidentally, if the Blenheim at Hendon had been able to go over 400mph like the info board suggests, the early war might've been very different... ;-)

[stevehnz]

But would you even THINK of paying a visit to an aircraft display hall with no photo equipment at all?

Yup, 'cause I just like looking at aeroplanes, but then again, I do tend to take a camera anyhow, but don't take huge numbers of photos, I work on the theory that someone on the net has posted better photos than I can take, mine are just a momento of the time I spent looking & drooling.

Steve.

[Truro Model Builder]

Having been to both Hendon and Tangmere in the past week I found the contrast and similarities between the two rather surprising.

Thank you for an interesting critique, and the points you raised.

The main difference between the two, unsurprisingly, is that RAFM has resources and funding Tangmere can only dream of, along with full time staff -many of whom have qualifications and/or experience that should enable them to make the best of what they have and present it accordingly (seemingly). That Tangmere do as well as they do with far less is reflected in the fact that four of RAFM's airframes are on long term loan to them, including two record holders in the shape of the Hunter Mk.3 and the Meteor F.4.

[charlie_c67]

The lack of money, and space, stifles a lot of the smaller places sadly.

Still, some offer what the bigger ones don't. For example Coventry let you climb inside their Vulcan for a small donation, Tangmere have several flight simulators, one based in a replica Lightning cockpit, Southampton also let you get in several cockpits as well walk through their Sandringham. I realise you can get in the Provost pit at Hendon, but that's about it other than read the placards. No wonder kids get bored easily!