Harrier T.2/4/TAV-8A/TAV-8S engine maintenance

[LanceB]

Anyone have any pics of any of the hard-wing Harrier trainers with the forward engine access panels open? I can find plenty of operational single-seat birds with the panels open to check the APU etc., but cannot seem to find any of the T-birds. Am particularly interested in how that large hump behind the cockpits was dealt with under normal circumstances. From what I can recall, it had to be removed entirely from the airframe to access the front of the engine accessory compartment?

[Selwyn]

Anyone have any pics of any of the hard-wing Harrier trainers with the forward engine access panels open? I can find plenty of operational single-seat birds with the panels open to check the APU etc., but cannot seem to find any of the T-birds. Am particularly interested in how that large hump behind the cockpits was dealt with under normal circumstances. From what I can recall, it had to be removed entirely from the airframe to access the front of the engine accessory compartment?

From what I remember there was no issue with the fairing the doors just opened the same as the single seaters.

Selwyn

[LanceB]

From what I remember there was no issue with the fairing the doors just opened the same as the single seaters.

Selwyn

The aft pair (directly covering the APU) yes, but the forward pair, the gearbox doors, are under the hump.

[TimB]

I've no pictures with the doors open, but looking at my pictures of the T4, there were 3 sets of quick release catches on each side of the fairing, which look like they fastended onto the fwd pair of doors. I've also a picture of bits of a T4 scattered over a hangar at Lossie during an engine change. I think that the fairing would just be lifted off then the doors open as normal. Since I seem to remember that the doors could be removed really easily on the GR3, it might be as easy to just leave them off...

Regards

Tim

[LanceB]

Thanks Tim, that is how I sort-of remembered it working, but as my unit didn't have any two-seaters, and the one unit that did was all the way at the other end of the flight-line, plus with an intervening quarter-century between now and the last time I was up to my armpits in Harrier guts, I was getting a 504 error trying to pull the information out of the old grey matter.

You are right about the doors coming off easily - open the latches on the outboard edges, lift the door open, then pull out the quick-release pins that held the hinges together and lift the doors off. The central beam the doors attached to was likewise held in with quick-release pins, no tools at all were needed to pull the doors or that beam, giving unfettered access to the APU, gearbox and other greeblies.

That said, the only times I can recall those ever being completely removed was as step one of an engine change, for general inspections or tinkering about under the hood they were left attached and either propped open with support rods or held fully open by the person on the bottom of the food chain within the shop. British practice may have been different in this regard.

[TimB]

Hi, Lance,

I checked a copy of the Topic 12 (Cross Servicing Guide) for the GR3 that I bought as a reference on evilbay a few years ago. It says that the forward port door had to be opened on After Flight to check the generator oil level. Other than that, your memory on the doors on both GR3 and T4 matches mine - and my last time crawling over (and falling off) the Harrier was 30 years ago...

Regards

Tim

[LanceB]

my last time crawling over (and falling off) the Harrier was 30 years ago...

Never fell off one, although I was given a good knock on the ear by a main gear door once when opening them for inspection...

You doubtless remember the drill with those. ;-)

[sloegin57]

Anyone have any pics of any of the hard-wing Harrier trainers with the forward engine access panels open? I can find plenty of operational single-seat birds with the panels open to check the APU etc., but cannot seem to find any of the T-birds. Am particularly interested in how that large hump behind the cockpits was dealt with under normal circumstances. From what I can recall, it had to be removed entirely from the airframe to access the front of the engine accessory compartment?

Don't forget Lance that the "hump" was a fairing and just that. It had to be removed for access to the fwd doors which had to be open to open the rear set of doors. The fairing was held in place by six quick release fasteners :-

HTH

Dennis

Edited February 18, 2016 by sloegin57

[LanceB]

Thanks Dennis, that looks... familiar. ;-)

That is how I thought it worked (removable aft end of the hump, standard access doors under that) but I could not quite remember.

By the mid-80s, when I worked on Harriers, we were more worried about a TAV-8A falling out of the sky and crashing on top of us than we were with noting how powerplants shop was accessing the engine. ;-)

Now - when the hump fairing was removed to open the doors under it, the exposed aft end was an open hole to the aft cockpit rear bulkhead or was it blanked off with a sheetmetal wall?

[sloegin57]

Now - when the hump fairing was removed to open the doors under it, the exposed aft end was an open hole to the aft cockpit rear bulkhead or was it blanked off with a sheetmetal wall?

The "front" of the "hump" contained the Air Conditioning pack - a lot easier to replace than on the single seater which was above the nose wheel bay up a tapering hole behind an irremovable panel !!

I visited Cherry Point back in the mid seventies - just one question - How many shades of grey (sorry Gray) and Green did you use for touch ups !! ?

Dennis

[LanceB]

Thanks again, Dennis. That pic also solved another question for me, which was did the T-birds use the same speedbrake as the GR.1/3 or the shorter one of the Sea Harrier? The Sword kit's part seems to be the short type, looks like I need to replace it. I thought I had read somewhere that the trainers used the short type, but it seems not.

As for paint we used what was around, we had FS matched spray cans we used for touchups (34064/36099), but it was not unheard of to use OD or Gunship Gray or even one of the Gull Grays, as there were a lot of those cans around as well. Also, the original paint chalked and faded quite badly, which meant even if we used the proper colors on a touchup they stood out like a sore thumb.

Most of the time we at least made an effort to get the color right, the skipper used to get upset if we didn't.

Like the time someone modexed a new aircraft with a spray can of black Plastikote, which of course smeared badly on the first flight. Skipper took one look and said "Alright, who took this bird up to Warp Speed?!?"

Edited February 18, 2016 by LanceB

[sloegin57]

Yeah - we did the same although we did not have spray cans. I did not come across them until I was in the Middle East. Normally for touch ups we used either Gound Equipment Green, which was an acrylic paint and dried in an hour or for the grey (and sometimes the green) we used the old Humbrol paints from the large tins that used to be around. The matt was best as that too fried in a hour.

Good days at Cherry Point, A-6's, A-4's plus the T/AV8's :-

HTH

Dennis

[LanceB]

Yup, typical blotchy Harrier there. Some of that is not touchups, it looks to be where fuel or grease was spilled and soaked in, then the sun faded the exposed bits.

I have heard that sun fading was not such a problem in Britain.

[Julien]

I have heard that sun fading was not such a problem in Britain.

I will have you know summer is one of the best days we have here!

[Dave Fleming]

Thanks again, Dennis. That pic also solved another question for me, which was did the T-birds use the same speedbrake as the GR.1/3 or the shorter one of the Sea Harrier? The Sword kit's part seems to be the short type, looks like I need to replace it. I thought I had read somewhere that the trainers used the short type, but it seems not.

Not quite so simple - at some point, the T4 with the short fin had the small type of airbrake fitted, as did the T4N/T8. As far as I can tell TAV-8As and early T2s/T4s had the longer one. AV-8Cs also had a shorter one, which generally seemed to have been done by sawing off the excess (I suspect to make room for the flare pack in the rear baggage bay) - at least one preserved example has a saw cut mark.

Sword only included the later one, but earlier ones can be found as spares in the ESCI/Italeri Sea Harrier kit - shout me if you need one!)

Edited February 18, 2016 by Dave Fleming

[LanceB]

Sword only included the later one, but earlier ones can be found as spares in the ESCI/Italeri Sea Harrier kit - shout me if you need one!)

Thanks Dave, but got it covered - have a long one leftover from a Fujimi SHAR.

[junglierating]

Hi, Lance,

I checked a copy of the Topic 12 (Cross Servicing Guide) for the GR3 that I bought as a reference on evilbay a few years ago. It says that the forward port door had to be opened on After Flight to check the generator oil level. Other than that, your memory on the doors on both GR3 and T4 matches mine - and my last time crawling over (and falling off) the Harrier was 30 years ago...

Regards

Tim

Cant remember checking genny oil levels but certainly the santotrac / stern oil levels but I dammed if I can remember if that was for the CSDU / aux gearbox so I guess as the genny ran off that you are indirectly checking it.

Long time ago though

[perdu]

You scurrilous bunch of utter dratsabs

I've been trying assiduously to 'DELETE' my long held pash for Hawker's last fab fighter (OK already, Fighter Bomber) but a random 'click' on this post has...

Well I expect you can guess

Thanks for the fabulous pictures

saved of course...

[Rob P]

I will have you know summer is one of the best days we have here!

Exactly - the rain is warm!

You scurrilous bunch of utter dratsabs

I've been trying assiduously to 'DELETE' my long held pash for Hawker's last fab fighter (OK already, Fighter Bomber) but a random 'click' on this post has...

Well I expect you can guess

Thanks for the fabulous pictures

saved of course...

The love of the Harrier can NEVER be erased!

[perdu]

OK you win

Not helped by the fact that the ONLY game I ever got working on my Amstrad PCP464 was Harrier

Dudgeons and dragqweens was way beyond my little brayne

Oh that 'flanging whine'* on take off--- lovely jubbly,,,,,,

..* Not my description

[Rob P]

OK you win

Not helped by the fact that the ONLY game I ever got working on my Amstrad PCP464 was Harrier

Dudgeons and dragqweens was way beyond my little brayne

Oh that 'flanging whine'* on take off--- lovely jubbly,,,,,,

..* Not my description

My sentiments exactly. 1969, was spent in a pram under the Dunsfold flight path listening to Harriers. Subsequent years expanded that to Hawks, then Sea Harriers (saw the first flight of the prototype in primer). Happy days

[LanceB]

Oh that 'flanging whine'* on take off--- lovely jubbly,,,,,,

..* Not my description

I still have hearing issues from that "flanging whine" of Harriers taxiing by. Love them, but the noise...

[Britman]

Just occurred to me looking at the two seater as to whether the rear seat was the inspiration that lead to the Sea Harrier position? Any thoughts?

[LanceB]

I believe the only thing that provided inspiration for the raised cockpit in the SHAR was pilots desperately pleading to be able to see what was going on.

I once met a Brit who, when he found out I was a mere Colonial Marine who worked on AV-8B, decided to upbraid McDonnell Douglas for "ruining" the Harrier by putting that big canopy on it and killing the ability of the AV-8B/GR.5/7/9 to fly supersonic. I pointed out that that wasn't the canopy's fault, but yes, the AV-8B was, in absolute terms a bit slower, however it was a fair tradeoff as speed doesn't matter so much when you are trying to attack a target you can only see at certain angles while looking through a cardboard tube. Anyway, it was the supercritical wing that limited the AV-8B, however it could still fly very near to the sound barrier (and go through it under just the right conditions, as our XO found to his surprise) and more importantly could carry a useful load for a useful range. You were not going to get a GR.1/3 to carry three tons of bombs, plus 'winders, plus gun, have it off the deck in 150 feet and have it hit anything further away than the perimeter fence. Full praise for Hawker, the original Harrier was a masterpiece of engineering, and they succeeded where everyone else failed at making a useful VTOL/STOVL aircraft, but as one of our RAF exchange pilots said when I made a model of his GR.3 for him: "Don't forget the tanks, we couldn't make a lap around the barn without them."

[TimB]

I still have hearing issues from that "flanging whine" of Harriers taxiing by. Love them, but the noise...

Pardon?

Try just 3 years of listening to them start up in a HAS or revetement! I was deaf to 15khz (fan frequency ish) by 26.

Regards

Tim