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Trouble with laser printed decals


Simon Cornes

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I am having a go at printing some decals for the first time. I am using Experts Choice paper for laser printers and I am using the printer at the office. I have run a copy of the decal through on ordinary printer paper and it is perfect.

The Experts Choice paper is slightly wider and slightly shorter than A4 so I don't know if cropping the width is the answer. I have run one sheet of EC paper through with slightly 'iffy' results. mainly in the black toner department.

In some cases the black image is not 100% complete and I also have a few heavy 'scrapes' of black through a couple of other images in the direction of movement of the paper.

It is also pretty obvious that I need some sort of varnish coat. Is it correct to brush a coat of Klear onto the surface or must it be sprayed?

I look forward to receiving your opinion and of course I only have 2 sheets of paper to play with now!

Thanks

Simon

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The Experts Choice paper is slightly wider and slightly shorter than A4 so I don't know if cropping the width is the answer.

This is american "Letter" format. Set your page settings accordingly

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The toner scrapes may be due to the rollers being dirty, may be worth trying the printer self-clean routine if it has one.

Another reason could be that the paper is moving too fast through the printer, see if there's the possibility of changing this setting, for example choosing different types of paper. May also be worth trying settings for thicker paper types, decal paper is thicker than common paper and maybe the roll exercixe excessive pressure with the standard settings resulting in damage to the artwork.

Varnish is not really required on laser printed decals but clearly makes them a bit more robust to handle. Klear will work fine either brushed or sprayed. The only difference is that a sprayed layer will be thinner and more uniform.

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Thanks guys. Not sure if I can adjust the machine for different paper thickneses - not easy when its a machine usd by 30+ people so I'll have to spy my chance!!

Giorgio - I tred to PM you this query this morning but I got a message saying your mailbox wasn't taking any more messages so I assume its full?

Cheers

Simon

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My inbox may well be full, will clear and let you know

Regarding settings, I don't know what printer and what operating system you're using, and most importantly what control you may have on the printer (often office networks have a number of limitations in place) however if you're using a Windows based computer and printer you can alter most settings for the single print you need, just open the printer options/properties panel when you select print for your document and change from there. I'd start with paper type, depending on the printer you may have a number available (heavier or lighter papers, gloss photo papers and so on) if there's an option for light cardboard may be worth trying this if the paper thickness is the potential issue. If the speed of the printer is the potential issue then it may be worth selecting a photo-paper setting as these are usually printed a bit slower. Unfortunately with decal paper it's always necessary to find the right printer settings and in my experience each printer needs its own settings. At least I've noticed that laser printers are less sensitive to settings compared to inkjets when it comes to printing decals

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Hi Simon - you need to set the printer for thick paper or even glossy thick paper perhaps.

Its not down to pressure - its speed. With laser printers the toner is heat fused onto the paper - so for thick paper it needs to travel through the fuser unit more slowly to give the heat a chance to melt the toner onto the substrate. On "office paper" settings which is what I'm guessing yours is set to - it travels through too quickly so the toner doesn't melt properly - hence you get scuffs and scrapes etc etc.

As Giorgio says - its a bit trial and error to find which setting works best

You can also set the printer to US letter format too in the page size options

Cheers

Jonners

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On my old Kyocera laser (now in printer heaven) I had to send the sheet through twice. That's sounds like a disaster waiting to happen but...

The first time I sent the decal sheet through, I printed just one full stop. I then sent it through again printing the decals I wanted (avoiding printing in the full stop area!). This 'warming up' of the sheet (for want of a better word) worked like a dream.

After that, a 30 minute wait and a brush coat of Klear sealed eveything in. Job done. :thumbsup2:

But you do have to be careful sending the sheet through twice as the fuser can melt the toner from the first print (ie the full stop) and cause problems inside, hence why I only print a full stop.

Also I used the single sheet feeder option with straight paper pass.

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Thanks for the feedback chaps. Well its a Kyocera 'big office jobbie' Multi Function affair and I had a look at the Windows 7 print options. No options for US letter format or photo paper but it does include 'thick', 'coated' and card stock. Taking on board what Jon says then I think the 'thick' option may be the one to go for.There's a side feeder but I doubt that would avoid more than 1 set of feed rollers but I'm not sure if I can do anything about the speed at which it goes through the machine - maybe the paper setting will sort that out? I think I will have another go with my first sheet of Experts Choice paper as the print on most of it is pretty useless I think so nothing to lose, providing I don't end up with toner on the feed rollers!! Bear in mind that the sheet is pretty much full - I'm not printing something in a corner - I have a full set of artwork for a project so we're talking about squadron markings, national markings and stencils. If it works then I think the sheet will be very useful to me so I'm keen to succeed.

All good fun!

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Well I sent a scan of my 'effort' to Bare metal/ Experts Choice and and they have suggested that I set the paper type to 'color laser transparency' so that it is cooler. Personally I think that's going the wrong way but what can you do?!! I suppose it sells more sheets of decal paper!!

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Simon,

I took my artwork on a USB stick to out local "Staples" store, they will print your stuff on their laser printer in their copying section. Took my own paper(experts choice) & they reset their settings for the American size. I don't know if you have one in your area but it was less than £4.00 a couple of years ago, printing was excellent, may help you.

Cheers Mac

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Well I sent a scan of my 'effort' to Bare metal/ Experts Choice and and they have suggested that I set the paper type to 'color laser transparency' so that it is cooler. Personally I think that's going the wrong way but what can you do?!! I suppose it sells more sheets of decal paper!!

Have you tried this setting ? Did this improve things ?

Have to say that when entering the magic world of decal printing, at least a couple of sheets must be considered lost for tests... With home printers it's possible to do several tests on one single sheet, just print the test artwork at the top, then chop this part and keep printing on what remains of the sheet. Of course this means feeding the sheet with no other paper in the tray, something that I do anyway with my decal paper. With the office printer this may be a bit more difficult...

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Hi Giorgio,

No not done anymore experimenting yet as I only have 3 sheets. I put the first one through again using the 'thick' setting and the artwork uses a full sheet so I'm Leary of 'wasting' paper but your experience suggests I have no choice! Maybe I have to bite the bullet and try the 'transparency' setting - as it doesn't have the other options but its a 'colour laser' printer so it should do!

Sumo

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Well I went with Mac's suggestion and visited Staples. I now have two very good prints, albeit the blue and red are slightly lighter than they should be but, I hope, good enough. The cost was £3 for, presumably, the setting up and then 65p for each copy - £4.60 in all so very reasonable. I think I will get another 3 sheets of decal paper and get some more printed.

Next stage is to coat them with something. Experts Choice say MS Liquid Decal Film but I'm not sure how easy that is to spray through an airbrush? Same goes with Klear, never sprayed the stuff so, presumably a fairly low pressure if I go that way otherwise the paper will get soaked!!

Simon

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Simon, good to hear you have your sheets printed !

Regarding coating, klear can be sprayed easily with an airbrush, it's "liquid" enough to go through the nozzle straight from the bottle. Low pressure passes are recommended, as you say there's a risk of soaking the paper.

MS decal film should go through the airbrush fine, I've never tried however for one simple reason: I'm not sure what to use to clean the airbrush after its use...

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The "845" code is a decal printed with an Epson C1700 on Expert's Choice decal paper:

PB284409.jpg

It's so thin that the carrier film practically disappears and the number looks painted on the model. This decal paper is so thin that care is needed to apply larger decals as they can curl easily, I always use plenty of water to avoid problems... and print spares just in case...

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Thanks for the advice Georgio. Good point about MS Liquid Decal Film and I have no idea either! I may e-mail EC to see what they suggest - probably something unavailable in the UK but I will let you know what they say.

That's fantastic - F-104? Do you have to be careful with what setting agents you use? I assume a hot DACO would vapourize it if the carrier is thin!!

Simon

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Simon,

yes, it's a Starfighter, a CF-104 in the overall green scheme from the Esci 1/72 kit. I would agree on the setting agents, I use the Microscale products and the decal paper works brilliantly with these while I found the Gunze liquid too strong. Not surprising as the Micro products are recommended by the same Bare Metal on their sheets.

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Thanks Giorgio, I will keep the faith with the set and sol then but I haven't had a reply from Bare Metal/Experts Choice yet about how to get rid of liquid decal film!

I have however bought another 4 sheets of decal film from Little Cars. I couldn't remember where I bough the first lot from but Paul was cheaper on both the postage and the paper, providing you spent at least £10 !!

Simon

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What kind of printing paper must/could one use for printing out decals on a laser printer? I have a mono color laser printer, would love to try this out.

My only experience is with Experts Choice. I have seen other papers on eBay but I decided not to risk it with anything else. Little Cars sell it for £2.50 a sheet, minimum order £10, postage £1.50 so around £2.80 a sheet all in. Not sure what a mono color printer is? I needed full colour!

Simon

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What kind of printing paper must/could one use for printing out decals on a laser printer? I have a mono color laser printer, would love to try this out.

I've used expert choice and hannants clear decal sheets with my very old (now deceased) Kyocera mono laser printer with no problems, other than the pre heating that I mentioned in post #7.

I think the biggest risk is the toner not fusing to the decal sheet, you then run the risk of the toner getting on the rollers. If that happens you're in trouble but it's a fairly small risk.

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