1/9th Brough Superior SS100 (Model Factory Hiro)

[krow113]

Made without the kit jig?

[Mpfiend]

That looks very nice, you have made the assembly and drilling of the wheel look fairly straight froward, how ever I bet it was not.

I'm looking forward to your next updates as I am very tempted by this model and this is the only build of it I have seen, other than the MFH photo's on their website.

Please keep up the great work.

Best Regards

Keith.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Mpfiend

[Mpfiend]

I have a question.

Is the engineering of this kit such that over time it will not "sag" or collapse? I understand that the white metal is very soft in these kits.

The frame and front forks look very slender. Have you any thoughts on preventing them from distorting?

Any thoughts on this would be greatly received.

Best Regards

Keith.

[Cratecruncher]

"Made without the kit jig?"

Hi Steve. Yes, I used the T-pin and plywood arrangement shown earlier in the thread so I could get the hub centered and the T-pins also keep the rim from wiggling around. I've built a lot of wire wheels and screwed up enough of them that my jig is more reassuring. If it goes together lopsided it can't be fixed.

"Is the engineering of this kit such that over time it will not "sag" or collapse? I understand that the white metal is very soft in these kits.

The frame and front forks look very slender. Have you any thoughts on preventing them from distorting?"

Hi Keith. I don't think the weight of this kit will be an issue. Some of the MFH 1/12th endurance cars can get up into the 2-3 kilo range and sitting on thin horizontal suspension arms might sag a bit lower over time. But this bike is less than a kilo and designed to be very stiff and robust. The front forks and rear swingarm are glued together rigidly with the central frame. Suspension springs/dampers are solid and just for scale. Two parts I did beef up were the front and rear folding kickstands. They are very thin white metal and will need to hold up the bike. I plated them with a few thousandths of nickel to make them much stiffer but if that's not an option one could fabricate new ones from brass. I'll probably never even use the front stand but do plan to support the entire bike on the rear one and it looked a bit flimsy. Also, the wheels are VERY strong!

Edited March 16, 2016 by Cratecruncher

[Mpfiend]

Hi Keith. I don't think the weight of this kit will be an issue. Some of the MFH 1/12th endurance cars can get up into the 2-3 kilo range and sitting on thin horizontal suspension arms might sag a bit lower over time. But this bike is less than a kilo and designed to be very stiff and robust. The front forks and rear swingarm are glued together rigidly with the central frame. Suspension springs/dampers are solid and just for scale. Two parts I did beef up were the front and rear folding kickstands. They are very thin white metal and will need to hold up the bike. I plated them with a few thousandths of nickel to make them much stiffer but if that's not an option one could fabricate new ones from brass. I'll probably never even use the front stand but do plan to support the entire bike on the rear one and it looked a bit flimsy. Also, the wheels are VERY strong!

Thanks very much for the reply. I have just ordered this kit today. Your explanation is very reassuring

Best regards

Keith

Edited March 16, 2016 by Mpfiend

[krow113]

Hey whatever works!

I made a set for my Bobber on a rattle can plastic lid , plastic card for rim/hub spacers and toothpicks for pinning/centering.

I think I will try the kit supplied jig for these though , see if I can make it work.

Lead the way , well done!

[Mpfiend]

I received my kit today from Hiroboy in the UK. They provided me with a very fast efficient service.

I have to say I was quite surprised how small the box was for this model until I opened it and saw all the very small highly detailed parts.

I'm looking forward to your next update as I'm sure I will have lots of questions.

Best Regards

Keith

[Cratecruncher]

When I select a new project it's most often within a longer planning horizon, an incremental step in a longer journey. Each project has a series of learning goals to add some motivation (and a little fear of the unknown) to make it interesting. Otherwise, I'd just be doing the same old thing over and over. So for this project I knew I wanted to learn electroplating, specifically nickel plating to achieve as near to chrome finish as possible. This skill is a bit of a choke point and having it under my belt will open up a lot of opportunities going forward. Here are some shots of what I've accomplished so far and the test rig/materials I've been using:

My plating education began by scouring everything I could find on the internet which led me to Caswell Plating here in the USA. They have several kits to choose from at reasonable prices and everyone raves about their chemistry. So, being cheap I decided to purchase their 1.5 gallon "copy chrome" replenishment kit and make up smaller batches and come up with my own power supply and container. I also purchased a few ounces of Vale nickel anode rounds on Ebay to serve as an anode in replenishing my electrolyte bath.

I started safe by plating pennies and brass hardware before moving on to unique kit parts. One thing I learned along the way is to match the current to the surface area of the submerged plating area: too high and I risk discolored plating, too low and it takes forever to plate the part. A 1/4 watt resistor in-line helps "throttle" the power to something appropriate. The fuel tank side shown in the bath has a 12 ohm resistor using a 5 watt power supply rated at 2.2 amps output. The little bolts each needed 680 ohms to get me in the zone.

I learned that the surface finish must be absolutely clean and free of the slightest defect. An even dull surface sanded with 2000 seems better for adhesion than a highly polished surface. The white metal parts in the Brough kit and maybe all white metal casting have tiny occlusions in the surface that are amplified when plated. Sanding and polishing will remove some but create more so I'm still working on how to eliminate that. You can see a "sparkle" effect in that second tank side photo. Plating is more black art than science and I continue to improve. Total expenditure so far about $65.

Edited March 20, 2016 by Cratecruncher

[vontrips]

Brilliant post and nice result! I've been thinking of going the same route recently, having read everything on the Casewell website. Are you brushing it on or just using the tank to plate?

[DominiqueBeerts]

I have the same MFH-kit in my to-do pile and am looking with great interest. I also thought about the chrome parts. Since Alclad chrome is not the ideal solution to replicate chrome because of the fragile pant effect, I was thinking about other ways to do these parts. Plating seems to be a logical step, but the kits I have seen so far all used thick primer which needed to be brushed on. This primer was metal loaded to conduct the power. The wanted effect was then created by choosing different agents.

Works OK, except for the fact that this "primer" is thick, must be brushed, cannot be polished and thus gives a poor final effect. Plus the nickel turns black after a while, like silver. So it needs to be re-polished with silver-polish. So that was a no-go.

Aren't you afraid of having the problem your nickel will turn black in time?

I was considering preparing the parts, and then send them to a professional chroming company.

By the way, very nice work so far! Thanks for sharing your experiences.

[Cratecruncher]

@Von Tripps: The brush plating on their website sounded amazing but I read from a lot of users that it's a bit of a gimmick. I bought the big bag of electrolyte with the intent of trying several ideas. I tried using a gauze wrapped aluminum tube brush and it did work but it took forever and the plating was uneven and thin. I also used a cotton wrapped wire in a Bic pen handle to try and plate local areas. Basically, it's like washing the family car with a toothbrush. It'll work but you're going to be at it for a while. Also, those little kits Caswell sells have no nickel anode supplied so as soon as the dissolved nickel already in the electrolyte depletes it stops plating and you have to buy more bottles of green electrolyte.

@Dominique: Any part made from metal needs no primer to my knowledge, only plastics. There is one exception and that is pot metal and die cast metal because it has a lot of zinc and will dissolve in the electrolyte from what I hear. One thing I forgot to mention is how rich-looking their "copy chrome" really is. It looks just like chrome when it's buffed up - a rich dark blue background. It's that little bottle of brightener that apparently changes the chemistry in some way. As far as tarnish I'm not too worried about it. I'll probably wax the parts with auto wax and forget about it. I have some Pocher models I polished and waxed 25 years ago that still look as bright as the day I built them and placed them in the case. By the way are you the fellow that built that awesome 1/8th Citroen on AF a few years ago?

Edited March 20, 2016 by Cratecruncher

[vontrips]

I have the same MFH-kit in my to-do pile and am looking with great interest. I also thought about the chrome parts. Since Alclad chrome is not the ideal solution to replicate chrome because of the fragile pant effect, I was thinking about other ways to do these parts. Plating seems to be a logical step, but the kits I have seen so far all used thick primer which needed to be brushed on. This primer was metal loaded to conduct the power. The wanted effect was then created by choosing different agents.

Works OK, except for the fact that this "primer" is thick, must be brushed, cannot be polished and thus gives a poor final effect. Plus the nickel turns black after a while, like silver. So it needs to be re-polished with silver-polish. So that was a no-go.

Aren't you afraid of having the problem your nickel will turn black in time?

I was considering preparing the parts, and then send them to a professional chroming company.

By the way, very nice work so far! Thanks for sharing your experiences.

Hi Dom,

This will slow down oxidation on nickel:

http://www.cooksongold.com/Jewellery-Tools/Renaissance-Wax-200ml-prcode-998-118R?p=gs&gclid=Cj0KEQjwlLm3BRDjnML3h9ic_vkBEiQABa5oeWK1IUVdqIZIj9Y-vBXMSuOobnlW-xcrC_iKOHVx16caAngE8P8HAQ

Nickel plate shouldn't tarnish too quickly...all the early blower Bentleys were nickel rather than chrome.

[DominiqueBeerts]

Cool. Thanks!

Gives me somethiing to retest my solution.

[vontrips]

The brush plating on their website sounded amazing but I read from a lot of users that it's a bit of a gimmick. I bought the big bag of electrolyte with the intent of trying several ideas. I tried using a gauze wrapped aluminum tube brush and it did work but it took forever and the plating was uneven and thin. I also used a cotton wrapped wire in a Bic pen handle to try and plate local areas. Basically, it's like washing the family car with a toothbrush. It'll work but you're going to be at it for a while. Also, those little kits Caswell sells have no nickel anode supplied so as soon as the dissolved nickel already in the electrolyte depletes it stops plating and you have to buy more bottles of green electrolyte.

One thing I forgot to mention is how rich-looking their "copy chrome" really is. It looks just like chrome when it's buffed up.

Thanks for the info Crate. I've used brushplating with gold before with OK results, after lots of practice. Not Caswells stuff though (and not for models!). ;-)

[vontrips]

Cool. Thanks!

Gives me somethiing to retest my solution.

Dom, an old museum secret for silver is a laquer known as Frigelene...very old school and needs to be applied very skillfully (so you'll find it easy LOL!).

[DominiqueBeerts]

Dom, an old museum secret for silver is a laquer known as Frigelene...very old school and needs to be applied very skillfully (so you'll find it easy LOL!).

eerrrmmm, doubtfully ;-)

[DominiqueBeerts]

By the way are you the fellow that built that awesome 1/8th Citroen on AF a few years ago?

Yes, afraid I am ;-)

[grahamwalker]

Just seen this build great work, but I think that your wheel are wrong, looking at the kit parts the marking for the spokes are in the wrong place all spoke holes are on the centre line of the rim not either side like the markings, sorry to be the barer of bad news.

[vontrips]

Just seen this build great work, but I think that your wheel are wrong, looking at the kit parts the marking for the spokes are in the wrong place all spoke holes are on the centre line of the rim not either side like the markings, sorry to be the barer of bad news.

Doh, interesting observation! Having just looked at a couple of examples I'd suggest they are slightly offset, not centred; but yes, not as much as the kit!

[Cratecruncher]

vontrips, on 20 Mar 2016 - 2:34 PM, said:

Doh, interesting observation! Having just looked at a couple of examples I'd suggest they are slightly offset, not centred; but yes, not as much as the kit!

Yes, MFH pulled the rows a bit further apart so they could locate a part line down the center of the rim. The cast rim allowed for the rim blisters and the black color makes it difficult to tell they are a bit further apart than the original. Frankly, I'm much more bothered by the rear tire they gave me for the front wheel than I am about spoke spacing subtleties. On this bike with light colored rims it's a bit easier to see:

[krow113]

Working on options for the front tire here:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234991018-19-brough-superior/page-3#entry2300063

I dont have my example as of yet , what size are the rims on Brough?

I'm thinking 19" with an Avon tire...?

Myself I dont care if the spoke locations are off a little due to a manufacturing issue, pretty sure there isnt a rim made with spoke holes directly in the center, a lot of wheel stability is gained with the offset.

As for the chroming, looks interesting, have you ever tried the wax or powders available nowadays?

[Cratecruncher]

krow113, on 20 Mar 2016 - 4:17 PM, said:krow113, on 20 Mar 2016 - 4:17 PM, said:krow113, on 20 Mar 2016 - 4:17 PM, said:

Working on options for the front tire here:

http://www.britmodel...-3#entry2300063

I dont have my example as of yet , what size are the rims on Brough?

I'm thinking 19" with an Avon tire...?

Myself I dont care if the spoke locations are off a little due to a manufacturing issue, pretty sure there isnt a rim made with spoke holes directly in the center, a lot of wheel stability is gained with the offset.

As for the chroming, looks interesting, have you ever tried the wax or powders available nowadays?

Steve, the front rim is 59.7mm diameter at the bead and 61.5mm at the outer lip of the rim. That translates to about 21 1/8" and 21 3/4" in full scale. I just realized I have some old Protar and Heller kits I might be able to copy something from too. I'll take a look.

As for chrome powders, I've done some experimenting with the old S&J powder as well as that new stuff out of Japan called Wave Kosutte-Ginsan. The former is about like Revell Metalizer Aluminum Plate in my experience. It can be buffed to look like aluminum metal but is fragile and will discolor over time. The Kossute is really a different animal. It has a very dark, shiny appearance that really does look like chrome at very shallow angles to the light source. But looking straight down at an application it looks more like black chrome than chrome chrome. Again, that's just my observations playing with the stuff. I've seen photos on the internet of Kossutte that look amazing so maybe it's the skill of the applicator in my case. Here is a tutorial from Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdfICHNAl9U

Edited March 20, 2016 by Cratecruncher

[krow113]

The LA Street Chopper from Revell has a very nice 21" rubber tire with cool Goodyear lettering .

Its on the left in the link in my last post . I have one , it will be the first item I check when my kit arrives. I cant recall which kit has the Avon lettering, I'll find it , Avon would be somewhat correct, I would think... I do have an Airfix edition of the Commando as well....I think a solution is on the way for the front tire.

Add: The Revell Knucklehead drag bike has the 21" as well. The box photo shows a 21" with 19" lettered on it!

I went on the Caswell site, interesting. I have some of the latest Uschi powders but haven't tried them.

I am bogged down with rim and hub casting in metal right now but this kit has my attention.

I'm afraid your wip may get a little convoluted as you build this gem, lots of relevant info coming up, all good.

Edited March 20, 2016 by krow113

[2whl]

Just got finished reading through this WIP. You're doing an excellent job on it. It's what brought me to britmodeller. I've also got a Brough on the bench.

As for the side covers, i polished them with 3x and 4x steel wool. Then I sanded them with polishing pads starting at 3000 and progressing up to 12000. After that I used Novus #2 and was somewhat satisfied with the result until I tried Simichrome polish on them. I think I'll be going that way, but need to seal them from dulling.

[sharknose156]

Very nice, enjoying and learning techniques, thank you.