Jump to content

Aqueous Gunze Paints, tips


mirageiv

Recommended Posts

Hi guys.

After hearing quite a few praises for these I bought a few and gave them a run out on a quick old kit to see what is what. Thinned with levelling thinner they do spray beautifully but I have found they need a good light base primer coat to get the colours to show avoiding lots of layers. The final sheen seemed very glossy, not semi-gloss like labeled, so I thought I would apply decals directly on top like I usually do with Xtracolor enamels.

Problems started to arrive when I began decals. I let them cure for just shy of 24hrs (having read on here leave it a day or so), seemed dry with no solvent smell from the surface I thought good to go. I used Johnson's Klear (old stuff) to help some avoid silvering but it seemed to slightly discolour the paint around the decal, I was worried initially but the colour pretty much returned back again, but not entirely, just wondering why this happened.

The big problem came when I used Microsol softner (the red one) on a few and it began to melt the paint! When I started to move the decal around a little the paint started to smudge and return to a semi-wet state, is this the norm for these paints? That you cannot use Microsol or should I leave the paints to cure over a few days? Or maybe a clear coat first?

Any pointers on this would be much help, or any other things to watch out for with these paints.

Kind regards,

David.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I use Gunze a lot (both the lacquer based Mr Color and the aqueous Mr Hobby) and also use Microsol but I only decal after I have given the paints a clear gloss coat. I now use Gunze's Mr Super Clear UV Cut decanted from the aerosol and airbrushed on but used to use Mr Color GX100 Gloss Super Clear 3 or Mr Color Gloss Super Clear (C180 IIRC). I have the Mr Hobby Gloss Clear H30 too but have never tried it. The others I mentioned can all be thinned with Mr Color Thinners, I use the yellow bottled Self Levelling but the regular works too, they all dry very quickly and are very hard wearing.

Once I've finished decaling and weathering (I use oils, enamels and inks to weather and they don't lift the Gunze clear coat) I use Mr Color Flat C182 or Semi Gloss C181 to tone down the gloss coat to the final finish I want but have also used Alclad's Klear Kotes over Gunze to no ill effect, to be honest you could whatever you want over the top and would be unlikely to do any damage to the Gunze.

I hope that helps.

Duncan B

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

l found a source for Gunze Mr Hobby that will ship to Canada but the thinners still a problem. So now l have to figure out what to use. As for the paint l used it in the past and loved it but suppliers stop bring it into Canada so l been without a source for a bit. l have some projects that l wish to use the paints on so l began in earnest to find a source.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cellulose might be too hot for the aqueous Mr Hobby, I find that the Mr Levelling Thinners is, when painting mottles it'll 'burn' through the base paint.

To thin (aqueous) Mr Hobby you can use Tamiya's X-20A thinners, Isopropanol, distilled water, water + screen wash or Xtracrylics thinners to name but a few.

For (lacquer based) Mr Color you can use cellulose and that is about it other than their own thinners.

Duncan B

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have used Cellulose with Tamiya and Gunze aqueous paints ok, and they spray lovely, agreed you would have to be careful of the previous coats but you would have to be spraying pretty heavy for it to affect that coat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Duncan, ok so I guess I must use a gloss coat then before decals, the shine they initially encouraged my total lack of patience to skip another painting step :D.

I have previously used the aqueous H30 over enamels and it worked ok, very shiny stuff, but maybe slightly grainy at the same time however. I was not too happy with it so I immediately sprayed Tamiya Klear over the top, both with gunze levelling thinner, and then it all cured to a near mirror finish! Completely by accident it seemed to be the best gloss combo I have used oddly enough. I think I might try it again, 50:50 mix of the two gloss coats on some test model to check it wasn't a one off. In fact is it possible to mix Tamiya and Gunze aqueous colours?

How long should I leave differing paint layers/colours before applying the overall gloss coat? I have heard that if you do it too soon over Gunze you get an orange peel surface :shrug:

Thanks so much for the help though Duncan, cheers,

David.

Edited by mirageiv
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I usually leave my stuff 24 hours between coats but that is probably me just needing an excuse to stop for the day as I've masked off and sprayed within hours in the past (but why risk it?). I've heard various stories about strange effects after x period of time but have never witnessed anything untoward and the guy who got me into Mr Color paints in the first place (Arkady72) doesn't hang about when it comes to spraying the stuff (however we both almost exclusively use Gunze paints which might be why we don't usually have compatibility problems).

If you have a system that works for your gloss coat (the Tamiya mix) then stick to it, most of my worst problems have come when I've tried to be too clever and change from my tried and trusted methods.

I think the Mr Hobby and Tamiya paints could be mixed to make another colour without a problem as they seem very similar (although the Mr Hobby is probably a finer pigment). I've never tried it as I've never had the need to but a few tests would be easy enough to carry out. I have used Tamiya paints and Mr Hobby paints on the same model to no ill effect, as I have with Colourcoats enamels and Mr Color, Mr Hobby and Tamiya on my latest build (I just made sure I had a good coat of the Mr Super Clear on between the enamels and the other paints).

Mr Levelling Thinners is apparently the same as the regular stuff but with the addition of a retarder, that may or may not be correct but is what I have been told at any rate.

For me the bottom line is that if I find a system/paint type that works for me then I try to stick to it as I know what I'm doing with the stuff. When I've had problems it's usually because I've tried something new and not known what I was doing.

Duncan B

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 years later...

Apologies for resurrecting a 2 year old topic,  it seemed pointless to start a new thread.

 

The process: micromesh on bare Airfix P51 plastic, cleaned with isopropyl, Alclad black base, Alclad 2 sprayed on, MC GX100 super clear 2 to finish.

 

So far so good.  However;

 

The problem: Wiping off MIG panel line wash has taken all layers down to the plastic.  (Fortunately only on a test area under the starboard wing).

 

I think I left adequate drying time, but only about 4 hours on the GX100 super clear 2.  I misted on several coats.  Is that enough?  Would a fatter wet coat solve the problem or is it a `curing` issue?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Twobyfour said:

Apologies for resurrecting a 2 year old topic,  it seemed pointless to start a new thread.

 

The process: micromesh on bare Airfix P51 plastic, cleaned with isopropyl, Alclad black base, Alclad 2 sprayed on, MC GX100 super clear 2 to finish.

 

So far so good.  However;

 

The problem: Wiping off MIG panel line wash has taken all layers down to the plastic.  (Fortunately only on a test area under the starboard wing).

 

I think I left adequate drying time, but only about 4 hours on the GX100 super clear 2.  I misted on several coats.  Is that enough?  Would a fatter wet coat solve the problem or is it a `curing` issue?

OK, if you used Mig panel line wash that has enamel thinners over Gunze GX with which I assume you used leveling/cellulose thinners: The enamel thinner will take off a cellulose thinned finish effortlessly. This would work if you used a non solvent gloss coat e.g. Alclad's own Aqua Gloss (the clue is in the name) The concept is : oil & water  i.e.

 

Solvent wash + non solvent thinned clear coat

 

or 

 

Non solvent wash + solvent thinned clear coat

e.g Phil Flory's  dirt wash or the internet voodoo of Tamiya  NATO black + water+ dish soap (washing up liquid).

 

Watch the video and it'll make sense...BTW Gloss Thinner as one poster mentioned is lethal stuff and eats styrene on contact, it certainly aint Leveling thinner!

 

A

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The MC GX100 is lacquer based clear not a Acrylic so as MIG panel line wash is enamel based will eat through the clear.

You can use Gunze/Tamiya acrylic clear thinned with Gunze levelling thinner and when dried you will be ok with the MIG wash as it won't attack the dried acrylic clear

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, I used Levelling thinners.

Right. Oil and water....got it. Ok.So a schoolboy error on my part?  Sounds about right. 

 

Its the first time using GX100 and levelling thinner.  I usually seal with Klear, Tamiya X20 clear and recently Vallejo acryl gloss varnish.

 

Thanks for the heads up replies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Twobyfour

 

Not a schoolboy error  at all, its very hard to work out what is what chemistry is in modelling glop these days, hell there's folks out  there who soften decals with tamiya extra thin when they are on the model... and we worry about accidentally wiping paint off? Have fun and there are loads of Acrylic clear coats, our glorious leader @Mike did this review on AK Gauzy FWIW, I've started using Mr Super Clear UV Cut with but with the aforementioned internet acrylic voodoo panel wash which if you add enough detergent flows almost as well as solvent based wash . The Flory dirt was is a bit grainy for 1/72 but again I've seen great results . I'm going to experiment with water soluble india ink so that may another alternative.

 

Cheers

 

A

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've some UMP clay based washes in the post. I'm hoping these will go smoothly on to cellulose mixes.  

 

I'm also considering AK metals for aluminium finishes.  Like you say, there is a glut of products at the moment, complete with their own mixing voodoo, it's hard for an occasional modeller like myself to keep track. 

 

Extra thin on decals?  What madness is this? 😁

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 27/01/2018 at 16:58, colin said:

The MC GX100 is lacquer based clear not a Acrylic so as MIG panel line wash is enamel based will eat through the clear.

You can use Gunze/Tamiya acrylic clear thinned with Gunze levelling thinner and when dried you will be ok with the MIG wash as it won't attack the dried acrylic clear

 

I read about the Gunze with Tamiya Clear, apparently the levelling thinners solves the orange peel effect you get with Clear and Tamiya's own thinners. I will have to try this too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've recently started using Gunze and had issues with Aqueous paint shine red H23 mixed with 50% levelling thinner, I found the finish to be dull so found myself applying a wet coats and got an excellent finish.  After 24 hours the surface was still easily marked with fingers so I popped it in the airing cupboard for a 48 hrs, masked up and applied the second colour, when I removed the tape (Tamiya) the surface was ruined the paint was like a rice pudding 

28079678169_9310b7a84a_k.jpg
39826929882_747cc3a9c4_k.jpg
39859364001_f43e7bdf2f_k.jpg
39148988684_98d34e15e4_k.jpg

 

I'm thinking the wet coats were too much perhaps?  I'm now planning on couple light coats an a final wet coat, or am I expecting too much of the paint.

I'm also planning on using Mr Colour GX Super Clear Gloss UV Cut and I've got Super Clear III GX100, what thinner ratios are recommended with these?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gunze paints touch dry very quick, but stay soft underneath for quite sometime.

Have had this happen to me especially with their gloss paints, so tend to leave to harden up for a week of so before masking

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Twobyfour said:

 

I read about the Gunze with Tamiya Clear, apparently the levelling thinners solves the orange peel effect you get with Clear and Tamiya's own thinners. I will have to try this too.

It's my go to for gloss coats now,I tend to thin it out 70 levelling thiners 30 clear and build up the coats. I will also go back over with just the levelling thinner between coats.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gunze's stuff takes a long time to harden (especially if they're glossy), I've had issues with their water based in particular. The Gloss White needed about a week to dry thoroughly, but the end result was very good. Gloss Brown dried a lot faster, so I guess it's a matter of pigment too (since I used the same acrylic thinner for both).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's still not properly dry and it's been in the airing cupboard for almost 48hrs.  The finish is very disappointing and it's a real bugger to clean out of the airbrush.  I've really gone off the paint it's going into the spare paint box.

 

I'm going to strip all the parts yet again, this will be the third time and respray with Tamiya.  I'm really not impressed with this paint at all. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To date, I've sprayed a few colours of Gunze Aqueous with top notch results. I use Ultimate Acrylic Thinners (the one that works with everything) and thin it similarly to how I thin Tamiya paints (I open a fresh jar and apply thinner to just above the neck curve).

 

Can't complain about them so far :)

 

Gaz

Edited by GazB
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Mr Hobby Gloss Red did take a long time to dry when I used it and even quite a while later masking tape marked it. I have since stopped using the gloss paint and now put a gloss clear over matt paint. I tend not to use a lot of full gloss colours anyway.

 

Duncan B

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, GazB said:

To date, I've sprayed a few colours of Gunze Aqueous with top notch results. I use Ultimate Acrylic Thinners (the one that works with everything) and thin it similarly to how I thin Tamiya paints (I open a fresh jar and apply thinner to just above the neck curve).

 

Can't complain about them so far :)

 

Gaz

Do you mean https://www.umpretail.com/collections/painting/products/ultimate-airbrush-thinner 

 

I've heard of the topping up of Tamiya jars with thinner sounds like a good idea do you have a picture of a new one filled?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Kev The Modeller said:

Do you mean https://www.umpretail.com/collections/painting/products/ultimate-airbrush-thinner 

 

I've heard of the topping up of Tamiya jars with thinner sounds like a good idea do you have a picture of a new one filled?

Y06NeKj.jpg

 

Its basically to just above the little indentation under the threads. I got the idea from a vid I saw about thinning Tamiya paints in the jar, except in that he put it right up to where that line of residue is, leaving a tiny bit of space at the top. I haven't gone that far myself, but possibly anything between how I've thinned and they thinned probably works. I have noticed when I've thinned white to my level, I still get a bit of spatter, so maybe it requires a bit more thinner :) I do the same for both Aqueous and Tamyia (presumably I'd do the same with AKIs new Real Colors because of their similarity).

 

Gaz

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...