Fiat 806 -"Gangshow"- build album.

[Little Andi]

On 31/10/2016 at 06:09, Olivier de St Raph said:

 

A question to Andi, about his choice to make run the ignition wiring by the inside of 121D. How did you decide to make such a choice instead of the outside?

 

 

 

 

It's no good looking to me for confirmation of prototypical details Olivier, I build to the beat of an entirely different drum. My maxim is one that if it looks right it is right - that with believability comes credibility, and that done well enough, with enough panache and aplomb ... it will serve to confuse the students who strive to create order out of what it is they see ... Very mischievous of me you see?

I do have an engineering background and a mechanical mind so the real reason I put the lightening holes in and routed the HT leads through them was simply because that's how I would have done it in real life - as would most engineers. Equally, have you noticed the two horizontal supports that hold the bodywork in place (to a degree). The HT leads are routed as they are because it is the simplest most direct route from the plugs to the magneto's that still retains full and ready access, they are held in place if you look carefully by retaining spacers along their length, and they only drape across the top of the engine due to effects of age and gravity - plus it looks terribly vampish.

 

Olivier, you came to the thread quite late, and I'm not sure how much of the early part you've read - (there is quite a lot of it now)? But I chose very early on to build my model as an illustration to a backstory I devised in order to accommodate all these anomalies in the kit. And the finished model will be presented as a very romantic version of events as I see them within the story that I have written for it. .................................... This is how I have fun with my modelling!!!!

 

I did I must admit work as you're doing now, in the past; but I became so incredibly burnt out, I all but stopped building for several years --- It was NOT fun as can be witnessed by the constant back and forth discussions I see on the board of late. Something that I worry will be alienating the more shy or timid builder that are trying to follow the builds for their own ends.

Each to their own of course but the thread it has now taken a direction, a path if you will, that I choose not to follow.

 

 

[Jnkm13]

I fully agree with what Andi said. I am delighted that i have finished my build.

 

Anyone who is looking for information might be scared off by the amount of information presented on the inaccuracies. But i do applaud the effort and information you guys have presented. It takes real passion for a particular subject for such in depth study and information sharing. For anyone who wants to build the most accurate representation of this car, this thread is the Bible. I doubt you will find more useful tips, tricks and corrections into getting this kit right. It's all here!

 

Until now, I couldn't understand and am annoyed with Italeri for the difference in effort they put into this kit compared with the Mephistofele. How can they take a shortcut and just put in the Mephisto's wheels into this kit?  

 

I am still a keen follower of this thread even though it has gone way above my league. 

 

Regards,

Jeremy

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Hello Andi,

Thank you for your message on the thread. I totally respect your actual conception of model making. When we see your amazing work, we can't pretend giving you any lesson at all.

Personally, even if on the moment I sometimes am angry against myself because I have to redo a step, after I´ve done it, I am glad with the feeling of well done job. I love model making as I practice it, but I can imagine other work philosophies that can give pleasure too.

Most of us on this thread are searching for truth, and in the 806 case, it's difficult but we are so excited when we find something, it is not the less interesting in what  we do.

You are an artist, and your choices , fe for the HT leads are so logical that I could think you had infos you did not share with us. Now I have understood your way to do, I apologize for my mistake feeling.

You are right, I arrived quite late on the thread ( 1st experience  for me) and my english not so good made that I didn't read (or understood) everything was written before. Even now it is frequent that I don't see what someone means...

I look forward to see your next pics.

All the best to all

Olivier

[larchiefeng]

Personally, speaking as a casual observer now, I think that Olivier should have started a separate thread that, gets into the minutiae of correcting this kit to be historically accurate. I feel that the thread has been somewhat highjacked and isn't anywhere as fun as it was when it started out. 

We all know that Italieri kits are full of mistakes and problems, just ask Hendy who did that over the top Wessex build a while back and showed all of problems that needed correcting. I don't mean to offend anyone here but, I think that you're losing a lot of people that started with this entertaining thread and now it's becoming of interest to only those who are actually building one. As Jeremy stated it's going way beyond many casual model builders. 

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Hello Larchiefeng,

I am sorry if the thread has become less attractive for "casual observers" like you. I do my best to make it live (feeling sometimes a bit alone to make efforts and put photos with bylines and many explanations to help the ones interested). Maybe I was too enthusiast and I "highjacked" (without noticing) the thread, and I will probably spend now less time on this, and more on my build. But it is my conception of the thread, not only to show nice results but to give the way to get them. I understand that, if you are not building the kit now, or if you ever know everything about model making techniques, it may be a bit boring, but the thread, IMHO, is made to help the ones who build the kit or who will do it a bit later.

When I read an article on TMMI (french edition), it is true that I don't feel it very interesting if I am not willing to build the kit or if the technical explanations are confuse, so I can understand...

I will finish by saying I don't agree at all with you, who suggested I could have started a separate thread. We are all on the Fiat 806 model subject, and, even if each one of us has his personal ideas, techniques and choices (happily), the subject is the same and every positive contribution is welcome. What people would have thought (with reason) and what comments would I have got if I had started a new thread, a "purist's one", when this one was existing? 

I think Andi, when he respoked his wheels, for example, was also searching for truth, no? I personally regret that he is much less present on the thread he started than at the beginning, and I would appreciate very much him to be more and give hints and recipes, as I do nearly every day (even if I don't have his skills) from the moment I arrived on the thread.

Regards

Olivier

P.S: evolution is life, this thread has evolved, it means it is very lively and, happily, we get everyday likes and good comments of modelers who appreciate our efforts... 

Edited November 2, 2016 by Olivier de St Raph

[Totally Mad Olivier]

 

Hello chaps,

for those who will be interested, the photo shows my 12 connectors made from brass tubes Albion Alloys ((Francis Miniatures)... On CC recommendation, I made a 0,6mm hole with a drill.

All the best

Olivier

P.S: sorry, can't refrain sharing... Should have been a teacher, not a dentist! 

Edited November 1, 2016 by Olivier de St Raph

[krow113]

An opinion wont kill this thread.

At 40 pages its auto-dead.

[Hannes]

Hello,everybody,another Topic...Im almost done with my altered Radiator case and will send some Pictures and a report on thursday.The case and it´s Radiator were enlarged a lot compared with the drawings(and the model).It´s a very important part,because it Shows the "face" of the car and also is the starting reference for the following bodywork´s constructions.The engine must have had enormous overheating  Problems .With a Radiator,compared with the one in the kit ,the engine would have exploded after a short time.It also could have been very helpful regarding the cooling Problems,that it was raining,when Bordino won this race.Maybe some Clouds hanging over Milano on this autumn day back in 1927 made the difference if this thread would exist or not...Many greetings to all! Hannes

[Totally Mad Olivier]

 

Hello guys,

I ditched Photobucket for ImageShack, much better. I recommend this host for your photos...

As you can see, I begin to work on the steering column. John made an amazing steel piece for that, with his lathe. It was my inspiration. I have applied gloss black on it, and will probably, after drying, apply Alclad stainless steel. Any suggestion or hint?

Best regards

Olivier

 

 

 

[Totally Mad Olivier]

[Totally Mad Olivier]

On 30/10/2016 at 8:11 PM, vontrips said:

Word up from (IMHO) the best technical illustrator on the planet; Tony Matthews!

 

He believes from the style it is the work of one of the Betti brothers - more likely Bruno. Must admit, I did a quick search of his work and I think that's most likely.

 

Note, he's a contemporary artist so he would have relied on historical information, or lack off! ;-)

Hello John,

Could you come in contact with Bruno Betti? Does T. Matthews know him? maybe we could have great infos by this artist...

I hope he is still alive (I tried to find infos about him on the net, but nothing except his many great cutaways)

All the best to all

Edited November 1, 2016 by Olivier de St Raph

[sharknose156]

 @larchiefeng May be i would say 'changing lanes' (Sorry English is not my native language   but i enjoy and respect the culture very much and gee.. i almost married an English woman  )

 

This fascinating car's has little references if any.

In this thread, at the beginning, this was turned into an amazing advantage and became a great subject for romantic interpretations and technical liberties. This is what this beautiful thread was about. I hope it still is and still can be. 

 

This was very entertaining and enriching with absolutely brilliant creativity from the different early contributing parties,

not only Andi, who of course beats me and many with his combination of artistic and engineering talents.

 

Later the thread became the exact opposite 'quest', for different reasons. Personally i was 'lost' when the thread talked about modifying the riding height by 1 or 2 mm's..this had no interest to me.  But it attracted VT back with his passion for cutting metals - not to mention resin and photoshop 

 

Two wishes for "All Hallows"  : 

 

1. Hopefully inexperienced modellers will still be encouraged to build this beautiful car no matter how, and will not think it is full of flaws. It is NOT full of flaws.

I do not think Italeri did a bad job -  they decided to simplify their own life - and make a simplified kit.  Experienced modellers have a good base to work on more.

It is great that Italeri did this 1/12 car - i hope they do more, even if inaccurate. Look at Pocher, their cars are still amazing beauties. 

 

2. In any case, i pray we keep the good camaraderie here, and sharing, even if we all have our different technical inclinations.

i also thank Andi for his wise approach. It is not me who started this exciting thread so i hope i am not talking out of place, just expressing 2 'all hallows evening' wishes. 

 

@krow113  ; good one 

 

happy Samhain  

Sam

 

Edited November 1, 2016 by sharknose156

[vontrips]

4 hours ago, Olivier de St Raph said:

Very nice work there Olivier! Well worthy of this thread! ;-)

[vontrips]

16 hours ago, Olivier de St Raph said:

Hello Larchiefeng,

I am sorry if the thread has become less attractive for "casual observers" like you. I do my best to make it live (feeling sometimes a bit alone to make efforts and put photos with bylines and many explanations to help the ones interested). Maybe I was too enthusiast and I "highjacked" (not alone, happily) the thread, and I will probably spend now less time on this, and more on my build. But it is my conception of the thread, not only to show nice results but to give the way to get them. I understand that, if you are not building the kit now, it may be a bit boring, but the thread, IMHO, is made to help the ones who build the kit or who will do it a bit later.

When I read an article on TMMI (french edition), it is true that I don't feel it very interesting if I am not willing to build the kit, so I can understand...

I will finish by saying I don't agree at all with you, who suggested I could have started a separate thread. We are all on the Fiat 806 model subject, and, even if each one of us has his personal ideas, techniques and choices (happily), the subject is the same and every positive contribution is welcome. What people would have thought (with reason) and what comments would I have got if I had started a new thread, a "purist's one", when this one was existing? 

I think Andi, when he respoked his wheels, for example, was also searching for truth, no? I personally regret that he is much less present on the thread he started than at the beginning, and I would appreciate very much him to be more and give hints and recipes, as I do nearly every day (even if I don't have his skills) from the moment I arrived on the thread.

Regards

Olivier

P.S: evolution is life, stagnation is death, this thread has evolved, it means it is very lively and, happily, we get everyday likes and good comments of modelers who appreciate our efforts... 

 

I'm in total agreement with you. If a bunch of us contributed to this thread building the kit out of the box it would make mind numbing reading, rapidly!

 

The very nature of this thread means new builders joining over time with their own ideas, research and approach to detailing and quest for knowledge.

 

I still disagree that it would put off new, or casual builders of this kit. If someone new to this hobby were to go for this expensive kit; I would still put them off, but only with a suggestion they started with a cheaper, old Tamiya 1/12th that would practically fall together!

 

Sorry if I upset some of you on my views, but this thread says it all on the box (and you don't have to read it, or open the contents!)

 

Think someone must be putting something in the water!

[Roy vd M.]

My 2 cents, as a mere follower of this thread.

 

The car is a legend. Very few pictures survived... drawings are, insofar present, not reliable. 

 

The reason this thread has caught my attention is that it is an exciting quest to replicate this legendary car as well as wel can, joining intelligence, knowledge and smart thinking by quite a few modelers. 

 

'The search is better than the catch' is what you gents say... well that holds true especially for this thread. I personally thoroughly enjoy reading about new findings and other developments, leading to a more accurate car. I was particularly exciting about the car height-chapter a week ago. 

 

To me, this is a build thread that can be read just like a Discovery Channel documentary can be watched: "And in the end... after going through all of the pyramid's hidden spaces with their robot-car camera, will they finally find the treasure? And what will be there?" This is exactly how I enjoy this thread. Coming closer to the real thing with every further post. 

 

Although I'll never buy this kit I will definitely keep following this thread. 

 

I slightly disagree with Larchiefeng where he mentioned that a separate thread should have been opened by Olivier. If Olivier had done so, a lot of valuable build information would have been lost to future builders of this kit, rather than centralized in this great source of knowledge. 

 

That having said I feel that each build is as valuable as the next, IF the build is performed carefully. An out of box-build with attention to removing all ejector pin marks, and/or great painting, and/or extremely realistic weathering (the latter of which Andy's model has for example), is a joy to follow. Therefore I'm disappointed to read Andy thinks this thread has taken a direction he doesn't wish to follow (I hope I summarize this correctly). I really, really hope to see more of Andy's build and of all other builds that have been going on. Please let the quest for over-the-top accuracy continue and please let the other builders -who decide to remain sane and build more than one model per two years- remain active here as well. This is an amazing thread and I love every single build progress post in it. 

[Codger]

53 minutes ago, Roy vd M. said:

 Please let the quest for over-the-top accuracy continue and please let the other builders -who decide to remain sane and build more than one model per two years- remain active here as well. This is an amazing thread and I love every single build progress post in it. 

Well, that explains where my sanity went ! One model, 2 1/2 years. Still going.

Must not be amazing enough....

[Roy vd M.]

@Codger please see my pm..

[larchiefeng]

Well, that seems to have stirred up a hornets nest. I have nothing against anyone striving for accuracy and excellence in their builds. I think that, all of you that are building this model are doing great work and I understand the research that goes into a subject can take you places you didn't anticipate. It just seemed to me that where it started and where it's now going could have used another thread. Having said that, you are right John, it is titled as a gang build so, multiple builds within the same thread is to be expected. 

This was a casual observation and I am still of the opinion that there is enough room for two different threads if for no other reason than the longer it gets the harder it gets to find something that you're looking for. So, we agree to disagree. This doesn't make this any less interesting. Sorry if I upset anyone, it's just my opinion and I own it.

 

[Roy vd M.]

9 minutes ago, larchiefeng said:

I am still of the opinion that there is enough room for two different threads if for no other reason than the longer it gets the harder it gets to find something that you're looking for. 

 

 

I think that is not a bad idea at all. 

[Jnkm13]

It would be great if once Olivier completes his build, he would post a dedicated thread for his 806. This would allow someone who wants to superdetail his kit to easily reference Olivier's. Olivier's posts have excellent description on what materials used, so it would be a waste if all these information was buried in a thread more than 40 pages long.

 

Better still would be to make all the information available in pdf format  

 

Just a suggestion.

 

Olivier, your effort in providing detailed information on the materials and paints used to achieve the end result is much appreciated!

 

Regards,

Jeremy

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Dear all,

first of all, thank you very much for your encouragements.

Larchiefeng, I don't denie to you the right to express your opinion, and it's true that myself, sometimes, I was a bit lost, as Sam, because I think we must always try to be concrete (I always say 1 photo or drawing better than 1000 words). 

But I totally agree with John and Roy, I think we don't have to redden of this thread content, and it was for me unfair to read it had become boring, discouraging for new modelers while I do my best (not alone) to show improving very much this lovely model is not impossible, with patience, hints and photos that shows how to...

That said, about Jeremy's suggestion, I recall to all that I am writing a paper for TMMI french edition, that will do exactly what you want, a summary of all the 806 building (I should write an entire book on such a subject, don't you think?). I wrote my first article in TMMI french about the Chevy Bel Air 1957 (I sent my only available copy to John) and the french editor in chief told me my article will be translated and published in english TMMI soon. If the same happens with the 806, maybe, in 1 year, there will be what you expect in english. And the french article, if all goes on as I hope, should be published from next june or maybe august...

This thread won't die as long as I will not have finished my kit. I spent a lot of time to make photos, add comments, try to make simple what is not in fact, but my efforts were highly rewarded, not only by your kind feedbacks, but because my build would not have been what it will be if I had not known you, just working  in my corner, as I did before. In particular, I would not have got amazing cast tyres from John, maybe would not have had the idea to respoke my wheels as Andi suggested, would have placed the steering wheel's screen in front instead of behind as Hannes suggested rightly, would not have spent so much time on the steering wheel hub, inspired by John's great piece, would not have got Thierry (CC)'s precious hints and support for many details like ignition wiring, connectors etc. Sharing on this thread creates an amazing emulation, we are all on the same boat, and if we are all attached, everyone will get the best he may hope. 

Please, put photos, explain simply and clearly what you mean, share your ideas and techniques, it takes time, I am well placed to know that (I recall I am not retired and my pro activity is also very time-consuming), but this will help others... and help you too.

All the best to all, lively to Britmodeler, lively to this thread!

Olivier 

Edited November 2, 2016 by Olivier de St Raph

[Hannes]

 

 

[Hannes]

hello everybody,today I want to Show you my altered Radiator case.

To achieve a more realistic shape I elongated it,shortened it´s height and made it wider too.The bottom line of the side-view goes now into a more horizontal direction.

The form of the frontal opening can be described as follows:The upper part Shows a wide arch that somewhat abrupt changes to smaller arches on both sides to transform into the vertical direction.

It´s very important not to achieve an U-shaped Bugatti-like form!

The bottom line should not be absolutely straight,it Looks better, if it´s very gentle curved.

I elongated the kit´s case about 2,5 mm before the Fixing Points and about 1,5mmbehind them.I also shortened it about 2mm below the Fixing Points by a section.The width was enlarged 3mm by adding plates to both sides.

The next steps will be preparation measures for the following Adaption works.

The Frame will be altered  by removing rivets on wrong places and by changing it´s height(0,5-1mm)

The rails must get smaller where the new Radiator case is situated.

I will replace the engine block and the frontal cross rod for a while by struts made out of thread rods,tubes,washers and nuts.

Pictures and Reports will follow.

That´s it for now,many greetings!  Hannes

[Hannes]

Sorry I forgot to mention the dimensions:Height 5,5 cm,width 3,5 cm and lenght 3 cm (longest line over the Fixing Points.  Hannes

[Hannes]

 

 

 

Sorry again,I forgot to correct the inclination on the 3. photo .Here are 3 more after correction.Hannes