Little Andi Posted April 17, 2016 Author Share Posted April 17, 2016 Looks like you have put them on back to front Andi If. I am right can I suggest you consider using triangular strip rather than the quarter round .....nth ink it will give you a better look as it's easier to flare into the bodywork Hey Gordon good to see you lurking around these parts ......................... And you're right and wrong? They are in fact facing the correct way - "In" at the front , and "Out" at the back, I suspect cooling for the fuel tank as much as anything. But you are right in as much as quarter round is entirely the wrong profile, and if one were to use it you would go bigger and slice the top off and use that ... as you rightly point out it would make for a much softer and more fluid transition into the bodywork. That said, this is supposed to be a fun build and one I'm trying to enjoy - I'm already beating myself up over details as it is. It looks way better than the kit parts and so I'm going to leave it at that - I know I should be riddled with angst and self flagellating with a thin twig ... but have you ever heard of Steve's FIF? .............. it's a marvellous thing And for want of anything other to say, Steve's right - They're in totally the wrong place. If you take the filler cap as a simple constant. The Left side louvres are in front of it, where-as the right are behind: in order to accommodate the seat cowling. I wasn't entirely happy with the original louvres, and preferred these newer (wrong) ones, so that was enough of a reason to rip 'em out and start again. PS ............. if you look at the reference pic's you'll see the actual louvres appear to have been made with a spoon and a stick of rhubarb so I'm going to go easy on myself over this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharknose156 Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 (edited) Looks to me they are facing in the right direction... the ones 'upfront and higher' to let the air 'in', accelerate downward, providing more fresh air faster, to exit at the back ... but cooling what ? Probably the differential was heating up the gas tank creating 'vapor lock' at the top of the tank and affecting the fuel pressure and supply (coughing). but thats only from where i stand Even the Mighty W 196 had something similar later on in 55, cooling the top of the huge gas tank at the back. Edited April 17, 2016 by sharknose156 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triumphfan Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 And the above pic is another typical example of why we should actually look at how the panels fitted together on these early racers. These panels were on and off like yoyo's pre-race (and sometimes during) The fit may have been great when the car emerged from Mercedes workshop but they didn't stay like that for long. Looking at the photos Andi referred to, I think the phrase 'Stick of Rhubarb and a spoon' is quite accurate. I have heard there are going to be some interesting grids on Saturday at Silverstone so I will be sure to post a few pics of the pre-war cars in our thread. Atb, Steve. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vontrips Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Good work Andi! I'm not sure the bodywork is dimensionally accurate anyway? I've always thought the real car in photographs looks lower and longer? I think the fuel filler may be placed too far back too! When I get a moment, I may photograph Rich's complete model and overlay it on the original photos in Photoshop for giggles! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharknose156 Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Hello Steve, Enjoy Silverstone ! yes, please send us pics. Lucky you i wish i could make it. i think the tyre valves covers where metallic (brass) and cylindric in shape (?). VT, get this camera out ! yes the chassis also strikes me as shorter. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banny Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 Steve I was planning to go to Silverstone also - unfortunately grand-daughter no.5 has a dancing competition. I have had my first day of wheel sawing! This has convinced me to apply for membership to the Magic Circle - my jig definitely has 40 gradients and I counted 40 pencil marks on my inner rim - magically I finished up with 42 cuts! Have filled the cuts and will re-do tomorrow. Andi Perhaps with the magic you're performing, you should join me! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Andi Posted April 21, 2016 Author Share Posted April 21, 2016 Just a quick update to show you the "yet again" revised thinking on these louvres ... although I feel all the differing techniques have their place depending on circumstance. As can be seen from this pic' I've moved the location somewhat forward of the kits, if you're approaching this for the first time it's no extra effort as you're removing moulding and making a piercing just the same, only in differing places. Now then, this is a bit more involved than those on the tail as they have to arc across the bodywork, in itself no easy task and not without its risks within the solution too - namely the desire of the louvre to want to curl when you try and bend it rather than stay straight. I have managed to get it close but it's not perfect by a long chalk. But, as with the mouldings and the proportions of the whole kit, without getting involved in a complete scratch-build (which this isn't, and never was intended to be) pretty much everything "we" attempt is going to be a compromise of sorts. Pic' then.............................. A couple of things of particular note here are firstly I've straightened up the louvre set compared with the original - this looks closer to the "feel" of the original, and taking on Gordon's comments I've applied a slight fillet of filler around the periphery of the louvre in order to aid the visual transition across the panel work ............ but mainly, and I think this is very important, the bridge you'll note is "notched" into the bodywork, this is to keep an accurate location because I've made this a little long and although it's pre-curved to a degree, it's also "sprung" into place to stop it relaxing and flattening out at a later date and ruining the look of the louvres as a whole? And this more overall short to give you a better perspective of the context of these two louvre sets, although one can see the curve of the body it really is quite marked, and more than it looks here. The tail louvres are only covered in a bit of over-spray, but hopefully you can see how much better they look when coloured and they're tied into the general bodywork? I'm hoping/anticipating that they'll look better still once they've been fully painted and weathered?? ................ now to finish these cussed louvres and not to jigger them up - always a possibility? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roymattblack Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 That louvre work is fantastic. Excellent research too - all part of the fun in my op. This will be a belter. Roy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vontrips Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 (edited) Interesting work Andi. What your repositioning has highlighted to me is that the original bodywork was more triangular in cross-section as the louvres are almost flat! The sides seem to flatten from above the exhaust line up to centre top. This is also evident in the rear quarter shot on the rear bonnet line/bulkhead and appears to have the same flat contour on the bonnet sides!!! Needless to say I won't be making those corrections, as it would become a major sectioning, or scratchbuilding project! Your pic has given me food for thought for the louvres. I'm thinking now that I may cut 2mm wide slots and insert 2mm sheet into the slots. If one left them overlong inside for grab tabs they could be shaped to the body contour and moved up and down at will until they look good. I'd then worry about cutting the slots and undersides afterwards. This method would at least give you straight louvres?! Edited April 21, 2016 by vontrips 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jnkm13 Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 A true labour of love Andi. Gonna turn out real good. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharknose156 Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Andi, this is Amazing truly. And also, this "notched into the bodywork" technique to stabilize it ..., thank you for sharing this, i don 't have the skills to do this on mine,... but i will surly try to replicate this on a test shell. i can t wait to see the next step.... am traveling and missing my bench... By the way the Italeri webshop is out of stock for the 806, but one can still find it on ebay, but not in many stores... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banny Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 Andi Some years ago I (very) casually did some work for a Lagonda Club of GB approved body repairer - his handywork had to be seen to be believed! I have to say the same can be said of yours also - awesome! I got an email from Thunder Valley the other day. Paul Raterink is planning to bring some 806 upgrade parts to market. He's looking for suggestions if anyone is interested (and if anyone has the budget!). Although to be honest, I have bought some bits from him for my Williams FW14B build, and was impressed with the quality. Day 2, second attempt at sawing wheel rims today. Steve Enjoy Silverstone! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Andi Posted April 23, 2016 Author Share Posted April 23, 2016 Thanks everyone for your combined support and encouragement through this (quite stressful it must be said) time sorting out the louvres. There have been several incarnations of technique - all applicable, just some more direct, others more circuitous but rather handsome. It must be mentioned that to be honest the more prototypical and elegant you want this? The more involved and sophisticated the modelling will need to be. ME? ...... I kind of plumped for somewhere in the middle - kind of looks groovy and to the uninformed, or certainly not the cognoscenti ...would look perfectly plausible. And on that note ................... A bit of fun to show how I intend to go about replacing the rivets on this here build. Now I know I can be a bit of an inverted snob about craft versus technology but I have this kind of Art dilemma going on and just can't bear to witness the removal of the human element such that the build (Project/Workpiece/Artwork) becomes ought but a clinical facsimile rather than a studious representation. ....................... I am reminded of the oft quoted "Charles Rennie Mackintosh" .... There is hope in honest error; None in the icy perfections of the mere stylist. - taken from the Words of JD Sedding's aphorism. Anyhoo, that got all a bit Arty - (I do miss Arty) but basically to excuse myself for that little bit of kit standing in the Fuel filler void - it's a "cup burr" if you haven't crossed paths before, a jewellers tool for trimming the ends of clipped wire. But when applied to the end of a bit of 1mm rod will give you a fantastic "domed" rivet. And because I chuck it into a pin-vice and use by hand I'm going to give myself that one - sans guilt!!!! Here you are then ...................... Just tuppence worth of fun for the weekend? ................. oo-er. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharknose156 Posted April 23, 2016 Share Posted April 23, 2016 Wow, looking at the above, i have just taken a long moment to reflect and to admire your deep artistic talent and craftsmanship, ingenuity and the Philosophy and love for Arts driving you dear Andi. Gentlemen reading this, do not miss what we see here, the level of modeling prowess on this forum is amazingly high in general, BUT here, with all due respect to all the other members, we have one of few 'masters' - Andi, Codger, Roy and very very few others such as Larchiefeng - who show us "live" how modeling is not about cleverly putting pieces together to reproduce a larger scale object... No Sir ! ....clearly their "level" of 'representation' has become Art, with an emotion, an inspiration and a deep philosophy driving their process and motivation. But why ? of course they have talent, and so do many on this forum, but what sets them apart in my humble opinion ( setting aside any psychological consideration ) is that at one stage, in their desire and frustration to represent their emotion and inspiration, they start having "increasingly clear visions" of what is acceptable, what is possible and what is satisfying to them for honoring this emotion and inspiration ... and this becomes more complex as they go along during their build... Probably this why they refuse the mediocrity of a mere "clinical facsimile"....and therefore, they take all the time needed for overcoming absolutely any technical challenge in their way... to achieve and to honor this emotional vision, sometimes even clearly surpassing the object being "studiously represented". This reminds me of a private visit to the St Petersburg Academia / Art school, which still teaches drawing and painting the old fashion ways of the 15 century Masters. The students sit for hours "studiously representing" classical masterpieces... not copying them. The rector at the time Pr. Semyon Mikhailovsky explained this same difference between a cold facsimile copy and a studied and inspired representation, which Andi shared above. What amazing work Andi... this being said, after seeing the new louvres, i am in the mood for a rack of lamb... "with fava beans and a bit of chianty" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Andi Posted April 24, 2016 Author Share Posted April 24, 2016 Awe! ..... Pish-pash. Sam that is very generous and kind of you to say so. I do not pursue any kind acknowledgement for what it is we all do here - it is nice to know that your/our efforts to share techniques and ideas is appreciated and taken on board. I think that is one of the reasons why I post regular updates, good and bad, successful or otherwise. It is the sharing, the meeting of minds and hearts because basically this hobby of ours is really quite lonesome and insular. Most all of us remember the days when it was just us quietly firkling away in our spare bedrooms, usually in a semi-darkened room with just a spotlight to work by - I know I do: and on reflection it cuts quite a sad image. The ability now to reach out across the world in effect still amazes me, I can swop ideas and resources in a matter of seconds with someone I hardly knew just a matter of a few weeks/days/months/hours ago - and now destined to become firm friends. And as for the whole ART discussion - well that's a can of worms that is! ........................ I actually don't hold with the notion that modelling, or model building is an Art form, it might involve an artistic aspiration, or an artistic endeavour but I honestly think what you end up with is a craft based item. As you rightly point out I do approach my modelling with an Art background, it must tell a story - hence the elaborate backstory to all of my builds, it invariably will exhibit "the passage of time, and the hand of man" as themes, both strong elements of my, serious or more serious attempts at artwork. I will it must be said happily sacrifice prototypicality in order to make a visual point or emphasise any given element of the build, I can and do glaze over if people try to force historical or prototypical facts upon me: but then perversely accommodate said facts into the build in some inverse or erudite manner .................... and sometimes I'm just bloody cuss awkward!! Basically I just crash and stagger along - hopefully forwards, thrilled when I've shown someone something new, worry senselessly when I feel I may of offended someone - anyone. ............. but I do like to feel I have achieved, - spiritually, conceptually, philosophically and creatively................... I've said it before, and I'll say it again ........................ When it comes to this life ............ I'm an Ewok! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vontrips Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 (edited) Managed to get a few hours modelling this week, but still just have a pile of heavily modified parts! Hopefully, soon I may be able to assemble something! Couldn't handle looking at those stupid front springs any longer; so they're chopped! There is just a single leaf on the rear mounting tower now which may break under the weight of the model. At the moment I'm not fussed and shall deal with it as and when. The mould halves are so out of register there's not a lot left when cleaned up. Couldn't resist chopping the solid rear axle too. The bolts are moulded in, but there was no joint lines for the axle tubes! These will be assembled with appropriate gaskets (just to keep Codger happy!). Not sure what the doodad is on the back of the diff housing; guessing it was either a breather tube, or inspection handle. It's a handle now...me being arty as there's not much going on back there! Edited April 27, 2016 by vontrips 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Andi Posted April 27, 2016 Author Share Posted April 27, 2016 Good to see a post in this thread John .................. I have no idea why but I get a bit twitchy if a few days go by and it remains empty, perhaps I feel a certain degree of responsibility? But, that front leaf looks so much better - even happier? I have done pretty much the exact same thing, just couldn't live with that trident fitting, it just screamed at me to do something with it - anything! I certainly couldn't imagine anything looking worse? Looking at your revised piece I was going to try and slice back under the second leaf and then bond either ally or brass shim to the tongue - hoping that might beef it up enough ... I might display with supports anyway (as in the Citroen Avant method). Regards the Arty doodad .................. I went with "breather" so managed with a bit of bent wire ...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vontrips Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Yes Andi, I wondered about some brass shim in there too. Not too worried, as I'm using bolts for the damper arms. My plan is to set the ride height and then lock up the friction dampers as they will take the weight quite happily! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banny Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 I know that sawing the rims is a simple, straight forward task! Having to take a break as the filler I used to rectify my error has proved to be too soft (Squadron White Putty). Different filler on the way. In the meantime have done some work on the steering wheel and floor. Don't know about anyone else but the 'inner ring' on the steering wheel - well! You only have to look at it and it breaks! I made several attempts at forming a wire replacement - they were ok, but not quite. Had a bit of luck - in my pocket I found a key ring that was almost the exact diameter. So a little cut, a bit of judicious bending and it looks great. I'm really getting into this 'scratch building' malarkey! I'll post pics tomorrow (new digital camera whoopee) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jnkm13 Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 Banny, superglue with either talcum powder or baking soda works as a perfect filler. Don't leave it too long or it will be rock hard and tough to sand. But it guarantees no shrinkage. Best on deep and big ejector marks. Worst feeling is that you have done all the filling and sanding, having it look perfect, only to have the sink marks appear when you lay on the primer. Regards, Jeremy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Andi Posted April 29, 2016 Author Share Posted April 29, 2016 Banny, superglue with either talcum powder or baking soda works as a perfect filler. Don't leave it too long or it will be rock hard and tough to sand. But it guarantees no shrinkage. Best on deep and big ejector marks. Regards, Jeremy Just a respectful addendum to Jeremy's post, .... I would strongly suggest that you not use your bestest-freshest cyno' - that prompts an instant set and isn't great to work with - at all!! But, in a rare twist of irony - the perfect stuff for the job is the old slightly thickening and stale glue that you've given up on because it refuses to stick anything except fingers and anything other than what you've precariously balanced in the right place for a nano second in time, before it adjusts itself to somewhere different where it will happily stick like it's been welded!! .............. So using using an older staler glue with "in my case Wilco's own talc" you will get a slightly slower set but you'll go through an identifiable "green stage" where you can carve and model it for removal of surplus and general firkling. And as Jeremy rightly points out - don't leave it too long before you finish because it will cure harder than the surrounding plastic and you'll end up with a sort of lava rock mound. ................ Other than that - it provides an easy and quick solution ... my go-to technique when I need to crack on with a build and not keep stopping for piddle-anty little niggley fixes PS .............. you can get a material called "micro-ballons" to use as filler but as ever with "modelling material" it's really expensive and in this instance not noticeably better(?). For the problem you're struggling with I used the old spokes/stretched sprue as a filler and then "Deluxe" acrylic filler when I realised the solvent based methods where taking for ever to dry - I just needed to get on. Jeremy - sorry chap wasn't intending to stamp all over your post - was/am just trying to be helpful ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banny Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 'Morning Andi/Jeremy Thanks for the tips - I have just the right vintage of cyno (I knew that my magpie characteristics would pay off one day). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vontrips Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 (edited) Good advice Andi! A word of caution on the microbaloons. Do not use the stuff without a mask as they are lighter than air...Very easy to inhale! Just started to use the Deluxe stuff - jury's out so far! Edited April 29, 2016 by vontrips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banny Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 As promised yesterday - here's a couple of photos of some of my wip: I used a key-ring as mentioned and imitation leather from Hiroboy rather than the kit 'stuff'. I know the configuration is different from the kit part, but no matter how I tried I couldn't get a 'good' bend for the bottom flat bit. The kit supplied clear part had a serious blemish so cut a replacement from some 'scrap' packaging. You can't see it in the photo, but I drilled and added a screw into the handle top right (artistic licence?)Anyhow, I noticed that other modellers have followed the same route. By the by, what exactly is the clear plastic for on the actual car? A couple of photos of the engine wip I replaced the cam cover bolts with nickel brass from Scale Hardware. I'm reasonably happy with the 'look', but next time will prepare the surface better before and after drilling. I also need to take more care to ensure all drilling is vertical. But on balance I'm happy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Andi Posted April 29, 2016 Author Share Posted April 29, 2016 Well get you! .................... Great progress Ban my man. That engine is a tougher build than it looks so you've done a pretty bang up job with that. Couple of nice individual touches that I'm liking. The further I've got into this build the more I'm seeing just how fictional the model is in itself, so I'm really taking the pressure off of myself when it comes to prototypicality - and I advise you to do the same - Relax and enjoy it, I'm sure it will look all the batter for it and the fact that on balance you're happy - well I think that's a really good thing. Regards the Steering wheel, I haven't even thought about that yet beyond the fact that i was trying to find a plausible reason to leave that "oil spray"(?) cover off - I may just do that anyway and let it be someone else's problem!! Well done bloke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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