Esmonde's Swordfish painting scheme

[Maciek_66]

I want to build Esmonde's Swordfish. There's one in Tamiya's box, but I've found another version. Differs in camouflage (division line between lower and upper colors) and letter H is red instead of white and painted aft of roundel. Which one is correct or more probable? There is an image of Esmonde standing in front of a Swordfish, but I couldn't find any information if this is a W5984.

Here are the options:

Edited December 9, 2015 by Maciek_66

[iang]

The top scheme is right for a Blackburn built aircraft. The red code should be on the fin (and obviously smaller), judging by other photos of 825 Swordfish.

[Chuck1945]

The top scheme is right for a Blackburn built aircraft. The red code should be on the fin (and obviously smaller), judging by other photos of 825 Swordfish.

Is the fin location in addition or in place of the fuselage code?

[KRK4m]

In my opinion BOTH can be right - the colour profile depicts W5984 in 1941 (while on Ark Royal) and Tamiya one is correct for the Channel Dash period.

The topside/underside demarcation line went down when C1 roundels were introduced. Probably the aircraft has been repainted at this occassion.

[Black Knight]

There is also a belief that Esmonde's Swordfish was painted overall black for the Channel Dash attack.

[FZ6]

There is also a belief that Esmonde's Swordfish was painted overall black for the Channel Dash attack.

Airfix even reproduced this scheme in their channel dash set.

The alternate scheme Airfix provides is also closer to the top illustration in the first post.

I think I plan to do mine in the black scheme.

Hope this helps,

Mark

[iang]

In my opinion BOTH can be right - the colour profile depicts W5984 in 1941 (while on Ark Royal) and Tamiya one is correct for the Channel Dash period.

The topside/underside demarcation line went down when C1 roundels were introduced. Probably the aircraft has been repainted at this occassion.

Unlikely. Blackburn maintained the same scheme (illustrated in colour above) until the switch to anti-submarine duties. Generally, in service repaints were carried out when changes in a camouflage colour was mandated. It is possible that the camouflage could be changed following repair by a CRU or maintenance unit, but although there may be examples of Blackburn Swordfish on fleet duty in 1942 with lowered camouflage, I can't think of one. Moreover, there is no evidence from the individual aircraft history of W5984 that it was repaired at a maintenance or CRU following damage (as recorded in Sturtivant from accident logs).

Edited December 10, 2015 by iang

[iang]

There is also a belief that Esmonde's Swordfish was painted overall black for the Channel Dash attack.

This has been discussed before here:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234916005-channel-dash-swordfish-from-airfix/

If they were repainted (for night attack) I would think it likely that it would have been with black distemper over the undersurface colour only (as per 815 Swordfish during 1940). But who know? One oral testimony 60 years after the event (reported in kit instructions), without any collaborative evidence from aircrew, photographs or written instructions has given rise to a mass of Channel Dash Swordfish models finished in black.

Edited December 10, 2015 by iang

[iang]

Is the fin location in addition or in place of the fuselage code?

In place of the fuselage code.

[Maciek_66]

So upper scheme is most probable, but no code H on fuselage, instead of it smaller red H on fin (fin flash as on the picture?). Am I right?

[tonyot]

I would agree that it was painted with the Blackburn applied camouflage but most likely with black distemper undersides covering the Sky. The Swordfish were there to carry out a night attack if required but were unfortunately sent out in broad daylight with disastrous results. Other aircraft including Albacore`s were finished with black undersides when detached to the south coast for minelaying, anti E Boat and attacks against Channel ports but without any known photos of the actual Swordfish I suppose we`ll never know for sure now..

Cheers

Tony

[Maciek_66]

I've tried to detrmine, how the letter on fin should look like. Most of images show code letters on fuselage (on planes with fin flash). Should it look similar as on these 2 images:

?

[tonyot]

I've tried to detrmine, how the letter on fin should look like. Most of images show code letters on fuselage (on planes with fin flash). Should it look similar as on these 2 images:

?

Yes,.....that was the position usually used for codes on the fin. The lower aircraft was based at Hal Far on Malta and had black painted undersides for night attacks on ports and convoys. From the position of the fuselage roundel you can tell the age of the airframe, earlier ones had the roundel further backas per the lower photo while later ones had a larger roundel under the rear cockpit position, as per the first photo.

Tony

[iang]

The bottom photograph "Q" is about right, though the code was a bit smaller on 825 Squadron Swordfish. If they were painted black underneath for night attack, they probably looked similar to that photograph. Note that when the black distemper was applied it was normal to leave the serial on a neat rectangle of the original undersurface colour.

I can't access my photographs at the moment, but I have a couple of 825 Squadron Swordfish from this period where the code is visible. Because they were red they are very hard to make out on B&W photos under normal conditions. The best one I know of in print is W5986/H - the replacement for Esmonde's aircraft, which can be found in The Swordfish Story (1993: p.102) by Sturtivant. It looks like "H" could also pictured on the previous page, but the code is extremely hard to read. I think I've seen 825/A somewhere too, but can't remember where.

Where the idea of single letter fuselage codes for 825 Squadron came from I've no idea, but it seems to be one of the myths that a repeated by illustrators over and over again and then (not surprisingly) adopted by decal and kit manufacturer's. I notice that Channel Dash Swordfish are incorrectly drawn in the latest AirFile.

Edited December 10, 2015 by iang

[Graham]

It's a pity my late father is no longer here as he was an Air Fitter with 825 and H was his aircraft, he was there when Esmonde and the other crews left that fateful day and it took them a long time to get over their loss. He talked about it but I was not into modelling at that stage so never asked questions about cammo and so on but here's a pic of him in the rear about to go on a test flight in the old stringbag. I plan to build a Trumpy Stringbag and as Ian has said he thinks the codes were 4H on the tail in red so knowing his expertise and knowledge I am going with that.

Graham

[occa]

Does this mean the Airfix instructions for the Channel Dash combo have the position of the code letter wrong and it should be on the fin ?

[noelh]

I've always been interested in doing a model of Esmonde's Swordfish. Have one Airfix kit stashed away for that very reason.

Edited December 11, 2015 by noelh

[iang]

Does this mean the Airfix instructions for the Channel Dash combo have the position of the code letter wrong and it should be on the fin ?

Yes

[Maciek_66]

I'm bit confused - lower camouflage color should be sky or black?

I want to paint my Swordfish in a camouflage like on first picture on the top, with same roundels, Perhaps there is other plane painted this way but more documented?

[iang]

The choice is yours on the undersurface colour. MDC interviewed an ex-825 fitter for the production of their magnificent 1/48 resin Swordfish who claimed they were painted black for the operation. This has now become established 'fact', and as far as I am aware, is the only evidence for the scheme as applied to Channel Dash aircraft. Speaking personally, I need some additional collaborative evidence to accept this. Others might take a different view.

As for the pattern, just find any photo of a Swordfish where the serial begins V, W, DK or HS. It didn't change.

Edited December 11, 2015 by iang

[iang]

It's a pity my late father is no longer here as he was an Air Fitter with 825 and H was his aircraft, he was there when Esmonde and the other crews left that fateful day and it took them a long time to get over their loss.

Graham,

I'm sure it did. It was the last of the valiant but nevertheless pitiful FAA operations in the early years of the war where lives were wasted due to a combination of poor equipment and incompetence at a senior level (the top three being: Skua attacks on Scharnhorst, Albacore/Fulmar attacks at Petsamo, Swordfish attacks Channel Dash). As for the black undersurfaces - he might not have remembered one way or the other. The appearance of the aircraft was probably the least important aspect of the operation from his perspective.

IG

[Maciek_66]

I want to build Tamiya's Swordfish with slats deployed and folded wings. What color were areas visible in this configuration? I saw an image of wings with slats deployed, the area under slats was different color than upper camouflage, darker, so interior green is not probable I think.

[iang]

Good question. I don't know the answer, but my guess is Cerrux Grey.

[Bedders]

I'm happy to be corrected, but I thought C/C1 roundels arrived only in July 1942, some six months after the Channel Dash. This would lead me to treat the Tamiya drawing with some caution. Justin