RAF B.E.2e and the Airfix upcoming 1/72 kit

[Kari Lumppio]

Hello!

Not in my comfort zone here. Airfix will be releasing 1/72 RAF B.E.2c soon. I assume it will be very good and accurate.

What if I want to make the B.E.2e version? The wings are different, but how much? Are the chord and rib distances same? Then one could make the longer e-wing from two normal c-wings. Tail surfaces were smaller in the e, so these could be made out of the c-model ones. Are there any other substantial differences between the c and e?

Are there available any good scale drawings or such for the e-version? Like Windsock magazine or somesuch.

All comments and suggestions welcomed.

Cheers,

Kari

[Old Man]

There is a Windsock monograph on the B.E.2e, Sir. You can probably get one without too much trouble.

The wings are pretty much those of an R.E.8, but the old Airfix R.E.8 wings are not accurate, and would take a good deal of work to get into shape.

Pegasus did a 1/72 kit of the B.E.2e, and the wings on it are decent, if a bit thick. Kit might be hard to find nowadays.

[e8n2]

The B.E.2e also had single bay wings as opposed to the two bay wings of the 2c. Maybe we will get lucky and Airfix will come out with a variant for the 2e, or there might be an aftermarket conversion kit later on.

Later,

Dave

[NZKIWI]

You may find having a look at the TVAL site useful . They have become one of the world leaders in WW1 aircraft restoration and create replicas to original standards , they have restored a BE2f and have built two BE2cs , an early one and a late one . Formaplane did a vacform BE2c years ago , and I was fairly sure they also did a conversion set that gave you parts to do other variants such as the BE2e , however all I have found is a conversion set to buildthe BE12

[sanguin]

Kari,

This British website may be worth a look:

http://ajaviation.co.uk/pegasus-models/

They list the BE2e Pegasus kit but you will have to ask if it is available.

Kingkit in the UK also have it listed but with no price given so it is not in stock with them.

John

[Dave Fleming]

I'm kind of hoping the Sprue layout leads to a BE12c, and then some aftermarket wings to make the 'e's

[Kari Lumppio]

Thank you for all answers!

I got some very good starting points.

Do I have to understand that B.E.2c and e wings have different chord and rib spans? In which case Airfix c-wings are of not help.

Cheers,

Kari

Edited December 4, 2015 by Kari Lumppio

[Old Man]

I am looking at the two Windsocks (B.E 2c & B.E. 2e) right now. Chord measures out the same. Rib spaces may be a little different; on the drawings they are not uniform over the span, and the 2c ribs are running mostly 5.5mm, while the 2e ribs are running closer to 5.0mm. But there is often a certain 'creep' in printing drawings, and I have not regularized either (I have seen variations from scale of up to 2mm over-all when using older Windsock drawings for scratch-building). You could probably skate on the rib spaces, even if there is some slight difference, and on chord.

Where you would have to be careful is span. Upper wing span for the 2e is almost 41 feet, lower wing span is a bit over 30 feet. Span of both 2c wings is almost 37 feet. It would be a close-run thing to get the necessary extension for the upper wing off the lower wing. The dimensions look like they might work, but the shape of the wing-tips is so different the wastage of dealing with the rounded tips of the 2c would, I suspect, leave you a bit short. Scratching some portion of the upper wing tips would probably be required, unless you got two kits to do the one model. I do not have my R.E.8 materials to hand, but the R.E.8 span is a bit greater all around than the 2e. If the wings of the old Airfix R.E.8 were better, I would recommend using them, but as it actually is, a good deal of work would be involved. I did a sort of 'correction' build of that kit a while back, and you can see what would be necessary at this link (see post #3):

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234920871-airfix-re-8-172-with-some-corrections/

But whichever course you choose, it is going to be some work, for sure. Worth doing, certainly. Hope you will post up when you get underway.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Old Man

[malpaso]

I was planning to use my Pegasus BE2E wings on the Airfix BE2c. I figured this should be a better build. Of course then I'll have Airfix 2C wings to go on the Pegasus fuse so I won't be any further forward really...

[NZKIWI]

The Formaplane conversion kit No 1A , supplied alternative parts to convert their kit No 19 , BE2c , into any of six variants , early BE2c ,BE2d , BE2e , BE2f , BE12 and BE12Ae . the BE2c kit had planes by a B D Mortlock dated March 1980 , and the conversion kit plans were dated November 1980 . Though not relevant to the original question I believe one of the other vacform manufacturers of that era did a 1/72 BE2a maybe someone like Scaleplanes .

[vince14]

It wouldn't surprise me if some enterprising aftermarket manufacturer came up with a conversion set off the back of the Airfix release.

[Paul Thompson]

The Formaplane conversion kit No 1A , supplied alternative parts to convert their kit No 19 , BE2c , into any of six variants , early BE2c ,BE2d , BE2e , BE2f , BE12 and BE12Ae . the BE2c kit had planes by a B D Mortlock dated March 1980 , and the conversion kit plans were dated November 1980 . Though not relevant to the original question I believe one of the other vacform manufacturers of that era did a 1/72 BE2a maybe someone like Scaleplanes .

The Be2a kit was by Phoenix. And very good it was too, IMHO. Vac plastic, white metal details, and transfers.

Paul.

[Dave Fleming]

The Be2a kit was by Phoenix. And very good it was too, IMHO. Vac plastic, white metal details, and transfers.

Paul.

The first kit I got in a bidding war on ebay for!

The original version was Vacform only, one of Joe's original Phoenix range before they were sold to Blue Rider

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/962253-phoenix-models-p12-raf-be2a

Edited December 7, 2015 by Dave Fleming

[Paul Thompson]

The first kit I got in a bidding war on ebay for!

The original version was Vacform only, one of Joe's original Phoenix range before they were sold to Blue Rider

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/962253-phoenix-models-p12-raf-be2a

Got mine from the Luchtvaart Hobby Shop, before Ebay became a thing. They had loads of them back then, and the Blue Rider kits, like the MF 11 and Bleriot XI. Most of which I was too ignorant about to grab like a hungry mantis. Tish.

Paul.

[Kari Lumppio]

Hello gentlemen!

Educated myself regarding the B.E.2 wings. Seems B.E.2e used R.A.F 19 airfoil. See this NACA report which gives also 1/12 model wing dimensions: http://naca.central.cranfield.ac.uk/reports/1928/naca-report-279.pdf

TVAL B.E.2f uses RAF6 airfoil, even if the wing should be the same as e? Below are pictures of RAF 6 and 19, they are visibly different.

Can anyone say anything definitive about what airfoil B.E.2e used?

Cheers,

Kari

Pictures are sourced from UIUC Airfoil coordinates database: http://m-selig.ae.illinois.edu/ads/coord_database.html

Edited December 8, 2015 by Kari Lumppio

[melvyn hiscock]

That doesn't look right. Having seen the Memorial Flight BE2F up close and personal on a number of occasions, it is not that second airfoil. It could be a typo on the source information.

[Kari Lumppio]

Hello!

Found a thread about B.E.2e airfoil in an another forum:

http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39528

The OP also mentions RAF 19 as the airfoil used.

Cheers,

Kari

[melvyn hiscock]

I have never seen any reference photos or real bits of BE2s that have anything like that airfoil. There is a mistake somewhere.

That looks a bit severe even for a Bleriot.

[Old Man]

In the body of that thread, Sir, YavorD gives RAF 14 or 15 for the 2e airfoil, and you can take him as authoritative. He is a serious researcher.

In 1/72, it is not going to make too much difference anyway, all you need is a wing that shows some camber. Judging by the pictures on the Airfix site, their upcoming B.E. 2c will have a cambered wing, certainly the preserved example they referenced has such a wing.

[Britman]

I bet when it comes out it will look like a Be2!

[Kari Lumppio]

Hello!

A wing is defined with planform, twist (geometric and aerodynamical) and airfoil. All rest is details. That is why have been pondering about the B.E.2e airfoil. I hope it has not overburdened any reader.

It is interesting that the original poster at the aerodrome thread started from where I was, too. I found couple of the references YavorD pointed and it looks like D.E.2e used R.A.F 14 or 15 airfoil. The "R.A.F 14 is a modification of old B.E.2c, the sections being identical in their rear parts. R.A.F.14 is old B.E.2c with the leading edge raised" (quote from ARC R&M 659).

The horribly looking very cambered R.A.F 19 was used only for experiments, so that question is solved.

I think the summary is that using two B.E.2c wings one should be able to make one B.E.2e wing. But the idea of arranging some virtual bits to 3D shapes is also tempting. If there only was time.

Cheers,
Kari

Edited December 10, 2015 by Kari Lumppio

[mhaselden]

You could always use a second Airfix kit to create the longer span wings, then use the spare fuselage in a depot diorama without it's wings - put the tail on an A-frame trestle to add a bit of interest? Just a suggestion...

[Dave Fleming]

You could always use a second Airfix kit to create the longer span wings, then use the spare fuselage in a depot diorama without it's wings - put the tail on an A-frame trestle to add a bit of interest? Just a suggestion...

Or build an balloon hang above it

Edited December 12, 2015 by Dave Fleming

[stevehed]

Nice one, Dave. I quite fancy a balloon some time in the future and it has been done on the GWAF forum which has unfortunately been lost to us. Does the thread exist elsewhere?? And apart from the BE2e what else do fellow modellers have in store for the Airfix BE2c? I've ordered three and intend an OOB night fighter, a standard two seater and a conversion to a BE12. As a WW1 devotee I'm quite happy the Fokker is an E.11 as it is different from the bog standard E.111 offering from the other companies.

Regards, Steve

[Old Man]

Nice one, Dave. I quite fancy a balloon some time in the future and it has been done on the GWAF forum which has unfortunately been lost to us. Does the thread exist elsewhere?? And apart from the BE2e what else do fellow modellers have in store for the Airfix BE2c? I've ordered three and intend an OOB night fighter, a standard two seater and a conversion to a BE12. As a WW1 devotee I'm quite happy the Fokker is an E.11 as it is different from the bog standard E.111 offering from the other companies.

Regards, Steve

Found that build here, Sir:

http://dirigible-modelers.lefora.com/topic/18025579/HMA-SS16-BE2C#.VmuUcL9mLIV

The attachments seem to work, I clicked on a couple.

Regarding B.E.2c projects, I am thinking of doing some operating in out of the way spots; against the Senussi, or in India, for instance. One involved in the Kut airlift for certain. And some odd things; single-seat conversions in Mesopotamia, some of the early oddly marked examples, with roundels on the tailplanes, or with radio transmitter mounted externally....