Future Navy

[4scourge7]

From page 28 of SDSR 2015

4 x SSBN (Nuclear Deterrent)

7 x SSN (Hunter Killer Submarines)

2 x Aircraft Carriers

19 x Destroyers and Frigates

Up to 6 x Patrol Vessels

12 x Mine Hunters

3 x Survey Vessels

1 x Ice Patrol Ship

3 Commando Brigade 2 x Landing Platform Dock 3 x Landing Ship Dock

6 x Fleet Tankers 3 x Fleet Solid Support Ships

4 x Merlin Mk2 Squadrons 2 x Wildcat Squadrons

Interesting to hear that there will only be eight Type 26, but five cheaper general purpose frigates added to maintain an escort fleet of `at least` 19 destroyers and frigates.

Cheers, Ian

Edited November 24, 2015 by ian buick

[wyverns4]

Could somebody please refresh my ailing memory, ( ) and remind me how many floating targets were involved in my all expenses paid holiday to the South Atlantic in '82???

Christian, being exiled for three more years to the dark continent

[4scourge7]

A quick cut and paste from wiki ( I`ve no idea how accurate) (links are just to generic wiki pages)

127 ships: 43 Royal Navy vessels, 22 Royal Fleet Auxiliary ships and 62 merchant ships.

Cheers, Ian

PS- a quick scan at the Falklands Task Force list would suggest just over 40 RN ships, right enough.

Edited November 24, 2015 by ian buick

[crobinsonh]

...and no HMS Ocean

[wyverns4]

A quick cut and paste from wiki ( I`ve no idea how accurate) (links are just to generic wiki pages)

127 ships: 43 Royal Navy vessels, 22 Royal Fleet Auxiliary ships and 62 merchant ships.

Cheers, Ian

PS- a quick scan at the Falklands Task Force list would suggest just over 40 RN ships, right enough.

Oh dear, , ...

[Graham T]

_{A far cry from the old "standard" of 50 frigates & destroyers. Much is made of the quantum leap in capabilities between the new vessels & those they are replacingg & I have no doubt this is the case but can these new vessels be in two places at once?}

[Paul Bradley]

I remember those days as well, Graham, when 50 frigates and destroyers was considered the minimum necessary for vital tasks. Even then, there were a lot of objections and experts stating that was too few! I can't help thinking what trouble the UK will be in if some future aggressor conducts a concerted anti-trade submarine campaign - it can't all squeeze through the Chunnel...

[Graham T]

I remember those days as well, Graham, when 50 frigates and destroyers was considered the minimum necessary for vital tasks. Even then, there were a lot of objections and experts stating that was too few! I can't help thinking what trouble the UK will be in if some future aggressor conducts a concerted anti-trade submarine campaign - it can't all squeeze through the Chunnel...

I'm sure I read within the last day or so that the Type 45 is also slated for (or at least capable of) ballistic missile protection of the UK. So one has to remain in port at all times?

[Martian]

Ninety five percent of this country's trade comes and goes by sea. Go figure politicians!

Martin

Not being political just patriotic and concerned.

[Geoff_B]

...and no HMS Ocean

Ocean's manpower will go towards the crew of HMS Prince of Wales and she will be fitted with additional equipment to dual in the Assault role

[Geoff_B]

The smidgen of good news is that in his Intro Cameron for the SDSR document and in the text itself, they state that they hope that the new smaller General Purpose frigates to replace the 5 GP Type 26's originally planned with 5 of a new slightly smaller cheaper design that should hopefully allow additional hulls to be built to allow us to increase past the 19 Frigate and Destroyer limit

[Seahawk]

Hmm. Seems like a repeat of the Type 45 procurement. "How many Type 45s do you need? 12? How about half that?" In terms of hardware at least, the Navy seems to be the biggest loser from SDSR, with no commitment to more than 8 of its future frigate programme. I'm sceptical about these "smaller cheaper" designs. Remember how the Type 23 design started out as the most basic ("austere") platform that could take a towed array sonar to sea, to complement the "high-end" Type 22s? Fortunately someone realised in time that such a design was basically useless and it was redesigned into a more capable well-balanced (but more expensive and possibly larger) vessel. It wouldn't surprise me if we got the 5 cheapo frigates (Why not call them the Blackwood class?) but I confidently expect that merest hint of more hulls over and above the 19 to be quietly forgotten over the years.

[davecov]

When I joined the Royal Navy in 1976 we had over 180 ships and subs. Since then the world hasn't got any smaller and most of our trade still comes by sea. Quite how we can expect to keep our sea lanes open with the pitifully few hulls we now have/will have is laughable.

Dave

[whitestar12chris]

It seems pitiful that we are constantly asking other countries to help us find russian submarines lurking off our coast, a number of coastal submarines similar to the upholder would fit the bill, diesel and quite like the KILO.

But alas we sold ours off, theres some logic there somewhere.

We are one of the few countries with no coastal patrol submarines, yet we are an island?

Chris

[Geoff_B]

It seems pitiful that we are constantly asking other countries to help us find russian submarines lurking off our coast, a number of coastal submarines similar to the upholder would fit the bill, diesel and quite like the KILO.

But alas we sold ours off, theres some logic there somewhere.

We are one of the few countries with no coastal patrol submarines, yet we are an island?

Chris

Not really, we borrow NATO coastal subs to train up our own ASW forces to act as potential Russian Sub, its cheaper and easier to borrow theirs as both sides get benefit from such exercises.

What we probably need is those two additional Patrol ships to be outfitted with sonar, ASW torpedo's and a helicopter to actively patrol those waters backed up by our new MPA to trace them before they get into our waters. Have a type 23 or later Type 26 with an SSN in the off shore area to follow up on any traces.

[Nigel Foster60]

The RN is possibly the most cut and unbalanced force in the light of the review despite or because of the 8 type 26's

If we look at the rest of the fleet there is a reasonable force to land Royal Marines, however this will have to be escorted in time of war., Half a dozen units for gunfire support and escort duties would not seem too many, some would say that was too few.

Then we have the two aircraft carrier groups, half a dozen escorts each?

Mentioned above is missile defence of the UK, say 2 units.

None of that is over the top in terms of escort units

Then we need to escort our tradeworldwide and any military convoys across the North Atlantic.

The numbers just do not add up. If you do not have a food store!

Why are we spending so much on offensive warfare when there is not enough to defend the UK's vital interest?

Nigel

[Paul Bradley]

but five cheaper general purpose frigates added

Doesn't anyone remember the Type 21? Lovely looking ships, cheap and cheerful, built to commercial standards, but not so good in a war.....

[Panzer Vor!!!]

We have the biggest strongest navy in the world

It cost us nothing

It serves all over the world protecting our interests

If your lucky you see it in port saying hello

It's called the U.S. NAVY

That why we run our fleet down

Because the government rely on other powers to fufil our navies role

If you think the navy's bad wait till the Army replaces Challenger2

Panzers anyone ???

[alpine_modeller]

Is it me or are the carriers being accelerated ?

POW is literally hammering along. they will be putting the rear island on in the next couple of weeks,

[Ravens]

Is it me or are the carriers being accelerated ?

POW is literally hammering along. they will be putting the rear island on in the next couple of weeks,

Could be that experience carried over from the previous hull is lending to the speed of construction on POW.

Ross.

[Nigel Foster60]

I think there is a realisation that the world is in a more uncertain state than anytime since the end of the cold war.

Far from the SDR in 2010 being anywhere near the money the world has gone in the opposite direction.

Hearing the news today, what would happen if North Korea and I.S got together and became Allies?

Far fetched, We just have to learn from history.

Its not a party political thing as we have proved recently.

You just have to love our country and our way of life.

Nigel

[phildagreek]

It went wrong back in the Cold War when the RN's NATO role was anti sub so the convoy's could get through (ReForGer), then the Falklands showed we might have to play on our own a long way from home for an extended time & we only just managed it because we had focused on our NATO role for too long.

I don't think we've ever really decided what we wanted poor old Pusser to do since, bit of this, bit of that etc. I was a Leander & 21 rating and they were good ships, as part of a task force not as singletons.

To close then, a joke. An F35 just flew over my house!

[AntPhillips]

Could be that experience carried over from the previous hull is lending to the speed of construction on POW.

Ross.

That's the way it works, efficiencies of scale, the more you make, the easier the process becomes.

By the time we build a fourth we'll be knocking them out in weeks

[4scourge7]

It was interesting how the 8 ASW/5 GP frigate news was presented as `the new way` in SDSR, as this had been the stated plan for some time.

As for getting more than the planned 13, I think the MoD is hedging it`s bets that securing export orders off-sets costs, and hoping for new ships to be ordered for the RN as a result.

Cheers, Ian

[Martian]

Could be that experience carried over from the previous hull is lending to the speed of construction on POW.

Ross.

That seems to be what the Aircraft Carrier Alliance seem to be saying on their web site.

Martin