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RAF P-51 Mustang Mk.III gun muzzle seals?


Steve in Ottawa

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I'm working on a 1/48 Tamiya Mustang Mk.III to do up as a RCAF 441 Sqn aircraft. The time period is just-barely postwar, in May/June 1945.

In looking at the available 441 Sqn photos to get an idea of some of the details, I noted that the 0.50" cal wing guns are sealed over with something. The photos are of fair quality but are clear enough to determine that the gun muzzle openings are not visible. Note that this cover does not go over the entire gun opening (like a Spitfire) but just over the gun barrel itself.

Is this a Mustang III detail something that's known to the group, and, if so, what were the guns sealed with, and do we have any idea of what colour it was?

As nice a detail as it would look I don't want to arbitrarily assume it would be coloured red.

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Well these ones are red, I know it's a Mk.IV, but it's the only colour shot I've found. I've no idea what material was used, I guess some sort of tape? White was used on P-47's sometimes, but it should be easy to tell red from white in a B&W photo.

871-16.jpg

Edited by Tbolt
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Thanks for the shot, but, as you alluded to, that is post-war RCAF in Canada. I wouldn't bet the farm that the 1947 and later RCAF regulations were in line with the almost-still-wartime RAF practices.

Edited by Steve in Ottawa
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Hi Steve,

I can't find any clear shots showing covers, I thought I had some.

Unless we have color pictures or a part number for the tape we really won't know. I'd guess yellow or red.

How old are those 441 decals? I though I had them but can find them. What year did they come out, I really want to build one now.

Go Esks Go!

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Note that this cover does not go over the entire gun opening (like a Spitfire) but just over the gun barrel itself.

Hi

Probably a light yellowish colour, an item issued to every soldier, incase they met the female population :)

A few armours told me they used them on the 20mm barrels etc to keep out dirt etc ...

Athough in those days I dont think they came in various flavours :)

or ribbed :)

cheers

jerry

Edited by brewerjerry
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I found this photo, but don't know where it originates, therefore can't say if it is original colour or 'hand' coloured.

B18.jpg

It's interesting in that the patches look a bit billowy in the center, like they are not sticking, particularly the outboard one. This recalls a posting by the late Edgar Brookes, (God rest his soul), where I do recall he stated that a form of plaster was used on Spitfire muzzle openings. I think this is the same as band aids, which might explain the dull light red colour.

regards,

Jack

Right, I found the thread with Edgar's post, and he has a few other entries there worth reading:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234968071-red-leading-edge-gun-tube-patches/

Edited by JackG
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There were two approaches taken to protecting P-51 gun barrels from dirt and water.

The first, as illustrated by JackG's image, is exactly the same as that used by the RAF, which is to apply doped patches over the entire blast tube opening. The dope could be either clear, or the same red substance as used by the RAF.

The second, more often used on the P-51d, is a rubber cap. This was normally red and similar to that used to cover the cannon barrels fitted to Spitfires and Hurricanes.

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Hopefully I did this correctly and you can see the 441 Sqn aircraft and a decent blow-up of the gun muzzles. They don't appear to be purpose moulded covers, so I'm leaning towards them being taped or doped over with something.

Okay, instead of posting the photo inline, here's the Dropbox link to the image

https://www.dropbox.com/s/nv7pfox35rzzxdq/Mustang%20III%20gun%20covers.jpg?dl=0

Edited by Steve in Ottawa
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Hopefully I did this correctly and you can see the 441 Sqn aircraft and a decent blow-up of the gun muzzles. They don't appear to be purpose moulded covers, so I'm leaning towards them being taped or doped over with something.

Okay, instead of posting the photo inline, here's the Dropbox link to the image

https://www.dropbox.com/s/nv7pfox35rzzxdq/Mustang%20III%20gun%20covers.jpg?dl=0

Those were the pictures I was looking at. I'd guess that was a tape and not a dope. I'd only speculate on the color as being yellow or red.

I know this is a Tiffie but they likely use the same material:

Typhoon_R8656_257_sq_FM_L_warmwell_1943.

Edited by Scooby
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I'm waiting to hear back from a friend who's really into Mustangs. I've asked him for any insight or info he might have gleaned from the 441 Sqn diary or ORB that gives any hints about the guns being done up in this way. They received their Mustangs in May '45 and did not fly them on ops, so the shooting was over in Europe for the time they had them.

As a modelling note, this feature saves me the prospect of drilling out the extant gun barrels, since I not-so-cleverly hadn't considered replacing them with metal tubing until after I'd closed up the wing sections... :banghead:

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I found this photo, but don't know where it originates, therefore can't say if it is original colour or 'hand' coloured.

B18.jpg

It's interesting in that the patches look a bit billowy in the center, like they are not sticking, particularly the outboard one. This recalls a posting by the late Edgar Brookes, (God rest his soul), where I do recall he stated that a form of plaster was used on Spitfire muzzle openings. I think this is the same as band aids, which might explain the dull light red colour.

regards,

Jack

Right, I found the thread with Edgar's post, and he has a few other entries there worth reading:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234968071-red-leading-edge-gun-tube-patches/

Zinc chromate? great image

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I once read somewhere that "frangible" covers were used over gun muzzles (if not red foped tape a la Spitfires. This implies a plastic material. I also dimly recall condoms being used but that might just be a made up account!

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