Attention to details, a subjective view, submarines

[whitestar12chris]

Having attended SMW last Sunday i noticed a number of submarine models lacking in some aspects to the trained eye of a submarine modeller.

And before any one starts having a go, its a personal observation, i fully respect OOB builders and artistic license.

So heres what i observed;

1) Apart from my own builds i have not seen a modern submarine model with the non slip walkway detailed on the upper deck, in photos it is clearly visible being matt black generally against the satin black of the anechoic tiles. (see photo)

2) In the competition area there was a heavily weathered u-boat, the likes of watch you would probably have never seen as their life expectancy was not great, with the majority of surviving u-boats being sunk after the war, except for a handful split among the allies.

The model even depicted rust to the wooden upper decking and below the waterline.

3) There was a type XXI u-boat, nicely built depicted underwater with the snorkel and mast above water, with the handrail in the up position.

One of the innovations on the type was a retractable handrail post to reduce underwater drag, a twist/turn and drop arrangement. So the type was streamlined for underwater running, a system used today on most modern submarines. (see photo type XXI at sea)

All the best Chris

[Chango]

Sometimes artistic expression just looks better than reality!

It seems to be a common issue among shipbuilders... I've seen lots of 1/72 U-boats for example that overdo the oil canning and rust so much that a real boat in that condition wouldn't have been considered seaworthy enough to go on patrol. Can't say I fault builders for doing it (they just look cool!) but it's also important for the studious viewer to recognize it's not necessarily how the real thing was.

Museum ships mess with reality too; A 70+ year old ship/submarine museum is not gonna look the same as it did when it was 1-10 years old active duty vessel with dozens (if not hundreds or even thousands) of sailors taking care of it daily, even with a restoration job.

I think it's also easy to overscale weathering on ships since most all ship models are a tiny effective scale (even the big ones like 1/200); I've seen more than a few builds with weathering that would look more appropriate on 1/35 armor than a 1/350 battleship.

But when it's all said and done, a well done but overweathered ship model is gonna get more looky-looks than a fairly clean (and ultimately more realistic) build. That's why it's called "eye candy".

Edited December 14, 2015 by Chango

[TallPaul]

Modellers licence is always going to help make for an ascetically pleasing model of what can be a pretty boring subject. We see endless models of boats with all masts raised, in reality for some submarine fits it’s a physical impossibility, you can’t have a rotating radar mast up with its adjacent mast up as well, one will hit the other. Seeing modern submarines posed on a line of flat topped wooden keel blocks, not even remotely close to reality. Unrealistic mooring line depiction, all tight as bow strings. Loud colours around escape hatches and DSRV seats, maybe for trials but on an operational trip, not a chance. Good quality untouched detailed photos of modern submarines are not that common so paying close attention to what is available is important.

HMS Vengeance recently left Plymouth and was replaced by HMS Vanguard to start her refit. There are some photos on the Plymouth Evening Herald website (possibly other places as well) if you are interested. Something that only happens every three years or so.

[Mike McCabe]

Interesting thread (and great photo). I agree on some of the extreme weathering seen to some extent, but so often it depends on context. If the modeller doesn't put the model in a context, it is rather difficult to say if it is reasonable or not. In the example of the U-boat, it was certainly heavily done, perhaps too much for a seagoing boat during wartime. However the modeller could argue perhaps that it was being shown once the war had ended and after capture. Photos I have seen of these boats having sat around for a few months certainly shows them looking pretty rusty.

In terms of surface ships, again it is context, A heavily weathered Hood, no. But I have seen photos of early war escorts, Flower class for example, extremely heavily weathered, more so than would look reasonable on a model perhaps. Then again I have seen models of MTB's with rust streaks running from the plywood hull, so it is a matter of subject knowledge and again, putting the model into context.

Mike

[whitestar12chris]

Mike as you say it is down to how much research is put in, or lack of it that results in the examples we see. MY obsrvations were made during a year of attending various shos and models seen on here.

An example is the X-Craft by merit, i havent seen a single example at any show painted as they were, from my research, this being black upper, dark admiralty grey lower, (quoted by Paul Kemp in Underwater warriors complete with photo showing this).

Seen plenty of all black ones which is correct for the XE class, which happens to be nearly 2 foot longer !!

Paul heres a photo of HMS Vigilant after a tour,

And before anyone says it im not perfect in my models, have made mistakes along the way and am still learning a lot about submarines.

All the best Chris

[Housesparrow]

I like to sand sharper, the plastic propellers that comes with a boat/submarine kit, because the stubby pieces of plastic doesn't seem realistic, though I must admit I am not 100% just how "sharp" the edges on a propeller looks like in real life.

Edited December 19, 2015 by Housesparrow

[whitestar12chris]

Sparrow it depends on the submarine, but your on the right lines, a lot of 1/350 modern submarines come with photo etched props so you dont have this problem, its the older/larger scale models that dont.

Heres a photo as example of sharp edge from a russian typhoon.

Chris

[Flankerman]

The Hobby Boss etched props nice and sharp - but are a bit too skinny.

At least they rotate the right way round (unlike some kits!) - note the contra prop arrangement....

Ken

Edited December 21, 2015 by Flankerman

[TallPaul]

At these scales you can make the blades as sharp as you like. Plenty of examples on Google Images. Submarine props are designed to keep cavitation to a minimum, they were known as scimitar bladed propellers, combined with careful changes of speed they were the best that could be had until the propulsor or so called pump jet took over.

[Mike McCabe]

Research is indeed key Chris to producing a good model rather than copying what others do. Great photo of Vigilant. Are you aware of any reliable plans or drawings of the Churchill class? A friend has been trying to find some for quite a while now in order to build a model.

Mike

[divibandit]

Hi,

I've never built a submarine model but our club had a Secret Santa and I've acquired a PLAN vessel. It's Hobby Boss 1/200 039G 'Song' class. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Steve

[Jessica]

Photos (along with a few ringers). You can generally trust Hobby Boss' painting instructions, or at least nobody but James Bond would be able to prove you got it wrong if you follow them

[whitestar12chris]

Hi Steve, i would suggest replacing the hull red with humbrol 60 which is a closer match to the photos, a lot of submarine models quote hull red which you generally find inaccurate if you search the photos on the web.

Also i would use brass rather than gold for the prop.

As for following hobbyboss painting instructions this has led me up the garden path a number of times, i now know better LOL

Hope this helps Chris

[divibandit]

Thanks Chris and Jessica,

The prop is a brass casting so I was going to leave it.

Steve