Revell 1/72 Panther Ausf A

[badger]

Well hope your not taking on too much.

With all those kits on the shelf and half finished!!!!, 'well we all know about that', !!!!.

Good luck on finishing something.

Foxy

Cheers Foxy - the photos are nothing - there must be 50+ projects on the shelf of shame. In fairness many of them are awaiting paint and as I've just bought a new airbrush I must try and finish a few!

[badger]

Hi Ben. Thank you very much for the links. I managed to pick up a couple of packs of the Army Painter Tufts to try out from a LMS. They do look very good. Not had chance to try them yet though.

Cheers again!

Kind regards,

Stix

Hi Stix

Glad the recommendation was useful - I've used GW ones on this build but not tried the Army Painter ones.

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234954369-armo-172-alkett-minenraumpanzer-finished/

I've not had much bench time recently with the pending arrival of our first baby - just over a week to go!!

I have managed to complete a 1:1 scale nursery and various items of furniture though if that counts as modelling? Even put stickers (decals?) up on the nursery walls!

Work has also seriously busy recently meaning I've been doing lots of extra hours to catch up with marking and lesson planning.

I'd like to get more done on this but the couple of times I've sat to do some I've been quite tired so the idea of tiny bits of etch wasn't very appealing!

I will return to it - hopefully get chance at the weekend - if the baby doesn't arrive then of course!

Ben

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Best wishes for a very busy time mate.....& congratulations too!

[badger]

Best wishes for a very busy time mate.....& congratulations too!

Thanks Sarge - has been the reason for my absence recently! Will post more as and when as really want to finish this.

Hopefully will get a bit more time before the arrival but who knows?

Ben

[adt70hk]

Wow! Excellent project.

As Greg said above; the damaged Zimmerit is especially impressive. I have never heard of Part. Could I please inquire where you get it from?

Thank you.

Kind regards,

Stix

Hi Stix and Spaddad

........I think I got the zimmerit and detail set from eBay for this project but normally order them from Jadar Models in Poland ................

Hope this helps. I'll try and post some photos of the general etch set in my next update.

Ben

Hi Ben

I've just come across this and I have to say it's looking very good so far.

However, as Stix knows I've recently come back to the hobby after a 25+ year break and so a lot's changed - especially with with regards to all the aftermarket extra's you can now buy.

One example is this amazing PE 'stuff', which I've never used before - so I have some very, very, daft, newbie questions.....so here goes

I'm going to have a go at doing the Panther captured and used by British 6th Tank Brigade aka 'Cuckoo' and I see from all my research and a video I found that it was covered in Zimmerit (albeit some chunks were missing).

I had actually come across Part's Zimmerit and Jadar Models but wasn't sure what it was like and how reliable they are, so thank's for the personal recommendation.

However, I was wondering how easy it is two work with and cut? I'm assuming super glue is sufficient to attach it??

I ask because I do all my modelling with my 7 year old son, so we stick to quick build kits so he can get involved as much as possible. I'm therefore going to use the Armourfast Ausf G as the base model and I'm working on the assumption that the Zimmerit is likely to need a bit of trimming/work to fit properly.

Also, I see you used Aber's etched side skirts and I wondered if you had ever used their MG 34 gun barrels for tanks? Armourfast don't supply a bow machine gun so I've been using short lengths of nylon brush bristles for now.

I was also thinking of using the RB models metal barrel - from your description it seems easy enough to fit?

Thank you in advance for your any assistance you can offer.

Kind regards

Andrew

PS I realise the above is a lot to spend on a kit costing under £4 but as there is a lot of info about Cuckoo I thought I'd have a go at doing it properly and hopefully improve a cheap kit a lot. But it goes horribly wrong, I've not wasted a lot of money on an expensive model - just on PE... .

PPS I've already seen one example on here already that's provided some useful info and inspiration.

[badger]

Hi Andrew

Welcome aboard!!

There's no such thing as a daft question - if I can help with anything please ask.

Photo etch is very thin metal - usually brass. I cut it with a very sharp pair of sewing scissors, but I know others use a knife and cut on a tile or smooth surface.

I attach it with ordinary Loctite super glue. I have some old brushes that I use to put a couple of spots on each piece then stick it on the model, being careful to line it up with the edges as I go. If I get it wrong a sharp scalpel is usually enough to "ping" it off the model again.

If I need to stick it down further I use thin super glue and a cocktail stick to run it along the edges, letting capillary action do the rest.

As the photo etch is designed for the particular kit it is sold for, there may be a few places it doesn't fit or may need trimming. This is where the scissors come in as I can trim it to shape, test fitting as I go.

I have successfully used etch zimmerit meant for Dragon kits on Revel and vice versa with a small amount of trimming. Panthers are not too bad as they are all flat plates. The only issue is that you have to remove all the moulded on tool racks etc if the kit has them - not a problem as I usually replace them with an etch detail set.

I haven't used Abers MG34 barrels, but would if I had some in. They're a bit on the pricy side but probably really nice as I find Aber stuff usually is. The side skirts are a necessity as the kit ones are wrong as they just stick to the hull side.

I absolutely love RB barrels and use them on every build if they make a suitable one. They are a lot cheaper than Aber (although the range is a bit smaller) and just as good quality for the most part. They tend to be made to fit a particular kit but can usually be adapted. For the Revell kit this was a case of drilling out the mounting hole in the mantlet a touch. The turned brass muzzle brake is excellent and far superior to the kit offering.

Cuckoo is indeed a "G" model - a mate made it some years back but used a Dragon kit with pre-moulded zimmerit (which in my opinion is far too regular). I like Parts "worn" zimmerit as it looks far more authentic.

One last thought - I don't know how you paint your models but I find paint doesn't adhere well to etch either by brushing or airbrushing without a primer coat first.

I use Halfords grey primer for virtually everything as it's cheap and come in big cans. Smells quite strong though, so I always spray outside with a decent respirator mask on (not one of those cheap white paper ones).

If it helps most of my kits I buy for under £5 - this one I splashed out on at £7 but it did come with the barrel!!

I also keep an eye on Ebay and pick up etch sets / barrels etc when I see them at a good price as I can always use them on future builds, even if I don't have the kit yet - Then again with several hundred 1/72 tanks and military vehicles in the stash it's not often that I can't!!

Hope this helps - if there's more I can help with just post away!!

Kind Regards

Ben

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Andrew, I've recently taken to fitting metal barrels to my nephew's gaming models.....It saves me having to fix them for him on a weekly basis!

I quite often order in bulk and I'm quite happy to get extras when I do.

[adt70hk]

Hi Andrew

Welcome aboard!!

There's no such thing as a daft question - if I can help with anything please ask.

Photo etch is very thin metal - usually brass. I cut it with a very sharp pair of sewing scissors..............I attach it with ordinary Loctite super glue...................If I need to stick it down further I use thin super glue and a cocktail stick to run it along the edges, letting capillary action do the rest.............As the photo etch is designed for the particular kit it is sold for, there may be a few places it doesn't fit or may need trimming...............I have successfully used etch zimmerit meant for Dragon kits on Revel and vice versa with a small amount of trimming......The only issue is that you have to remove all the moulded on tool racks etc if the kit has them - not a problem as I usually replace them with an etch detail set.

I haven't used Abers MG34 barrels..........they're a bit on the pricy side but probably really nice as I find Aber stuff usually is.......The side skirts are a necessity......

I absolutely love RB barrels .......made to fit a particular kit but can usually be adapted. For the Revell kit this was a case of drilling out the mounting hole in the mantlet a touch. The turned brass muzzle brake is excellent and far superior to the kit offering.

I like Parts "worn" zimmerit as it looks far more authentic.

.......paint doesn't adhere well to etch either by brushing or airbrushing without a primer coat first......I use Halfords grey primer for virtually everything as it's cheap and come in big cans.

Hope this helps - if there's more I can help with just post away!!

Kind Regards

Ben

Ben

Thank you for taking the time to reply with such a comprehensive response.

I had assumed photo-etch was a thin and easily workable brass-like metal of some sort but with the unknown I always like to have confirmation before diving in - I'm naturally very cautious - and fortunately, as the Armourfast Panther are super simple QB kits, there will be almost nothing to carve or sand off.

The Aber MG34s are pricey as you say but do look very good and it's also nice to know their other stuff is of a similar quality. The video clip of cuckoo shows a bit of tarpaulin over the bow MG, so I might stick with a short piece of plastic rod covered in some tissue paper tarpaulin instead, but I'm still in two minds - they do look very nice after all.

Fortunately, I won't need to buy additional side skirts as none of the pictures I can find show them. I've also noted that in the video at least that metal 'strip' mounted on the side of the hull that runs the full length is missing from the left hand side, although it's on the right hand side on all the pics I can find......

The RB Model barrels have always looked good but again it's nice to have a personal recommendation.

And yes I agree that the chipped zimmerit looks good. Can I just check that you used the 'P72 040 Panther Ausf. G - Zimmerit 1A'?

Someone elsewhere also rightly pointed out that there's a big section missing from the front plate, so I'll need to adapt it a bit further.

Halfords primer is already in use in my house following a recommendation from elsewhere...I've gone with black to make those had to reach places look dirty....

Finally, your reply certainly does help - a great deal in fact - so thank you very much again for taking the time to respond!!

Kind regards!!

Andrew

Andrew, I've recently taken to fitting metal barrels to my nephew's gaming models.....It saves me having to fix them for him on a weekly basis!

I quite often order in bulk and I'm quite happy to get extras when I do.

Andy

What can I say but thanks for the offer!!

If I do go down the metal barrel route with Cuckoo I'll probably get it myself as I need to order Zimmerit anyway.

However, there are other things in the pipe line so, so I'll let know if I need anything specific.

Thanks as always.

[badger]

Hi Andrew,

Glad the information was of use.

I didn't get the Ausf G etch set as Part did a set specifically for the Revell Ausf A I'm building and the Ausf G is a slightly different shape. I have got a set (I think they're Part to go on a Dragon Ausf G).

The metal strip is the mounting rail for the side skirts (again a different pattern than the Ausf A). I imagine that it wouldn't be hard to cut the zimmerit to represent the damage.

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with

Ben

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Which Halfords primer do you use please Ben.....I've always used GW, but that option is no longer available to me, so I've got to make the switch.

[adt70hk]

Which Halfords primer do you use please Ben.....I've always used GW, but that option is no longer available to me, so I've got to make the switch.

Andy

I use the bog standard car primer from Halfords - which comes in two sizes and a few colours. Someone on the Armourfast forum put me onto it and I've never had any issues - other than the fumes

Andrew

[badger]

Which Halfords primer do you use please Ben.....I've always used GW, but that option is no longer available to me, so I've got to make the switch.

Hi Sarge

I like this one http://www.halfords.com/motoring/paints-body-repair/car-spray-paints/halfords-primer-grey-500ml

Its usually with the generic colours such as the gloss black and white rather than the specific car shades (which seem to stop in the 1980s - Ford Escort Mustard anyone?)

It's a similar size to the GW stuff and lasts ages. I use grey as I find it a good all purpose colour - black can be a bit harsh if spraying dunkelgelb over the top.

Hope this helps

Ben

[adt70hk]

Hi Andrew,

Glad the information was of use.

..........The metal strip is the mounting rail for the side skirts.....

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with

Ben

Side skirt mounts - of course doh!!! - sorry for the daft question (and the use of the word 'strip' I couldn't think of anything better) - as I said I have been away a long time......

I'll make sure I put some pics up and I'll try and do it justice, although I suspect my young son won't want me to take too long over it.....

He's the British C-in-C in our house and he was still bouncing off the walls for 15 minutes after I mentioned the idea of his British forces being supplied with a Panther to accompany his 6th Tank Brigade Churchills

I'll keep you posted.

Andrew

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Hey Ben.....Look what you went and did: http://www.dragonmodelsusa.com/dmlusa/prodd.asp?pid=DRA7499

Sadly it's up to Dragon's current standard, so no zimmeritt or etched details, useless tracks and all the rest.....At the usual bargain £20+ price!

PS - Actually it's worse than that.....Based on the CAD images it's not an Ausf A at all, it's actually yet another Ausf D!

[badger]

Hey Ben.....Look what you went and did: http://www.dragonmodelsusa.com/dmlusa/prodd.asp?pid=DRA7499

Wow - first time the number one rule of modelling (just when you commit to a an extensive project with expensive aftermarket bits then a major manufacturer will release the same subject in plastic) has come true for me.

Shame it's a bit of a stinker* as I would be in the market for some decent Panther As. Dragon are rapidly becoming a vague shadow of their former awesomeness. I have their Sherman kits which are outstanding, yet their recent output has been tepid at best.

Maybe Zvezda will do one - I have their "snap together" Ausf D and it's lovely!!

Still no progress on this as baby is due on Saturday so not been in the frame of mind to tackle etch. Instead I've been busy clearing some part built stuff from the shelf of shame ready for airbrushing.

As I finish tomorrow for a couple of weeks holiday I might get time to do a bit on this. Hoping to at least start the ground work as I really enjoy that.

Ben

*Personal opinion only

Edited December 17, 2015 by badger

[Sgt.Squarehead]

TBH The Zvezda QB Ausf D is probably the best small scale Panther out there, I have the Dragon Ausf D's too and IMHO, they just ain't as good (& you can buy a platoon deal of three Zvezda kits from PSC for not much more than one Dragon kit will cost you)

[badger]

I have a Zvezda one somewhere I'm sure and remember it being really nice.

Also have another Revell Ausf A/D with a modeltrans modellbau Ausf D turret to correct the main faults on the Revell turret (no side pistol hatch and a dreadful cupola).

I might use the Revell hull with the Dragon Pantherbeobachtungswagen turret as I have photos of this on a D hull not the G Dragon supply. The Modeltrans turret can then be mounted on a fixed emplacement in a Berlin 1945 diorama as many were.

So many projects!!!

Ben

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Is that the command vehicle for the mob with the Elefants (sPzJgAbt.653? ).....If so I'm fairly sure it was an Ausf D hull, but wasn't it originally a Bergepanzer?

[badger]

Is that the command vehicle for the mob with the Elefants (sPzJgAbt.653? ).....If so I'm fairly sure it was an Ausf D.

Not sure actually Sarge - I bought the Dragon kit when it first came out (it's a metal hull one) but never really bothered with it. I got a copy of George Bradford's 1/72 Axis plans book a couple of years ago and noticed it's in there but on the D hull. A small amount of googling brought up pictures of it in overall dunkelgelb as a D.

It's the radio / command version with a dummy gun and fake mantle. I did read somewhere that it was produced on the G chassis as well but no one seems to be able to prove it or provide photos.

As the metal Dragon hull is pretty poor I figured I'd use my spare Revell D and build something that actually existed.

Fairly sure I have a panzer tracts volume on panther versions somewhere that might cover it - will check tomorrow.

Thanks for the input - always useful and happy for any help

Ben

[badger]

It's Dragon kit 7230 - will post a picture tomorrow as typing this off my phone and can't figure out how to link pictures.

Ben

[Sgt.Squarehead]

No worries Ben, I know the kit you mean now.....It's on the shelf 12" to my right as I type.

It's not the one I was on about.....I was thinking of this:

[badger]

Hi All,

For anyone a bit confused by my & Sarge's conversation above this is the Panther version I mean:

Ben

[badger]

Hi All and a belated Merry Christmas!!!

Probably not going to be any progress on this now for a while as I became a dad on Christmas Day.

After a long and exhausting labour my wonderful wife gave birth to a baby girl.

Over the moon with her (although currently barely functioning as only had an hours sleep tonight).

More at some point in the future.

[ytareh]

"More at some point in the future"

Kits or kids ?! Congrats anyway, some modellers report getting some building done in wee small hours during milk bottle feeds etc . Can't imagine it myself but don't worry time passes quick enough .

Colic

No sleeping ( GOLDEN ADVICE :cry it out baby , cry it out ...)

Teething

Kindergarten

school

A few years later thinking they know ( and definitely costing!)more than yourself ....

[badger]

More at some point in the future.

Progress - not babies. One is definitely enough for now!!