Revell 1/72 Panther Ausf A

[badger]

Hi

As threatened in my comments in the review section of this kit I thought I would start a WIP to blog my efforts to build this.

I refer you to Paul's review of the kit for sprue photos etc:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234990201-panther-ausf-dausf-a-172-revell/

As well as the kit I have an RB Models metal barrel, Part's etched zimmerit and general detail set, Aber's etched side skirts, Lonewulf's resin cupola and an AB Figures crew.

This is not a new kit and has a few issues (these are the ones I know about and plan to correct - there may be others, but ignorance is bliss!):

The road wheels have the wrong number of bolts. If I was inclined CMK do replacement wheels to address the bolt issue but I'm not bothering with those as I've spent enough!

The sprocket wheel doesn't have enough teeth - will replace the sprockets with spare Dragon items as these have the correct number of teeth. Also replaced the tracks with Dragon DS spares as although the kit ones are quite nice the links are too big, hence why the sprocket has too few teeth.

The underhang on the rear sides of the hull is incorrect in shape. The part etch set I'm using corrects this with new pieces of the correct shape.

The Ausf A cupola only has six periscopes in the kit, whereas the real one has seven. Lonewulf make a very reasonably priced replacement, which as a bonus has interior detail, so I'll be using this.

The kit side skirts are too thick and mount directly to the hull instead of on brackets. I will replace these with some very tasty Aber etched ones.

The anti aircraft machine gun is hideously over-scale and too short. I'll replace this with a spare from a Revell panzer IV, as I want to use the etched ammo belt and box from the Part set.

There are no towing clamps and the tow cables are way too thick. I'll replace the towing clamps from Dragon spares and will replace the tow cables with braided wire and spare Dragon ends.

Now to add some issues of my own!!! As I'm adding zimmerit I fancied building a late model Ausf A so need to modify the kit to represent this:

The centres of the circular air intakes are the Ausf D / early A pattern. I've replaced these with Esci / Italeri centres to correct them for a late A (to be fair these are some of the only decent bits on the Italeri Panther (mine came from a scrapped Jagdpanther)).

There is no close defence weapon on the turret roof for a late A. I'll add this from Eduard etched spares left over from when I built an Ausf D as the etch set includes parts for both the D and A models. Kit is fine for a Ausf D or early A.

Despite all the work I'm enjoying this build and the kit has gone together very well so far.

These are initial photos after a night's work - the actual build is somewhat further along now.

More to follow soon

Edited October 26, 2015 by badger

[badger]

So more progress - exciting!!!

To start with this was where I'd gotten to:

The white is Vallejo filler to blend in the new intake and repair the glacis plate where I trimmed a bit too much off whilst removing the kit mudguards. These photos also show the first etch piece fitted under the hull to correct and reshape the hull overhang. The etch zimmerit was then bent to fit this.

I have also attached the first of the etch tool racks.

I then had a couple of very productive hours at the kit during which I trimmed up and fitted the second intake which went much smoother than the first (it still needs blending in a touch).

I then drilled out the small circular intake below the engine hatch and fitted the etched mesh, there is a second piece of etch to go on here with some bolts.

I then attached the remaining piece of etch under the hull to finish sorting out the overhang.

Whilst this was drying I worked on the turret. I drilled out the mantlet to take the metal gun barrel and fitted this. Once set I glued the mantlet to the turret and supported this while it dried (There is still a piece of etch to fit to the mantlet).

I cleaned up the moulding plug on the base of the new cupola and attached this. Although a bit tricky to get it in the correct place I think it looks much better than the kit offering. It still needs a final clean up and a couple of the periscopes need flash removing but I'm pleased with it.

The last thing I did was to start cleaning up and attaching the wheels - my least favourite part of any kit! The fit of the wheels onto the stub axles was less than stellar and it took a long time to get them straight and true. I ended up using CA glue due to its instant grab as my normal poly cement was too slow setting meaning the wheels had time to droop. I only did a couple of sets as I was getting pretty tired at this point!

I also folded up the etch jack block which was interesting due to it's tiny size (no photo of this yet!).

Finally I fitted the drivers hatch after thinning down the mounting ring for the hatch swivel to a more realistic size.

The next session I get I'm hoping to finish the wheels (minus sprockets which will go on when I fit the tracks), blend in the second intake and clean these up and start on the etched tools. I need to get the wheels done so I can mount the kit on a temporary wooden block as it's getting tricky to handle without knocking bits of etch off and there's lots more to go on!!!

I have an idea how to display this - more on this in a future post!

Ben

Edited October 27, 2015 by badger

[robw_uk]

man that looks fiddly... but oh so good... looking forward to more

[badger]

man that looks fiddly... but oh so good... looking forward to more

Cheers dude!!!

Nice to know people are looking in.

I'll hopefully get a bit more time on it tonight - there's a small shedload of etch to go on it yet!

Ben

[GREG DESTEC]

Wow, this is impressive! I really like the worn/damaged zimmerit.

[badger]

Wow, this is impressive! I really like the worn/damaged zimmerit.

Cheers dude!

I can't really take credit for that as that's how Part supply it (they also do a non damaged set). To my mind it looks a bit more realistic as it chipped off and got damaged in real life.

I plan on bending / battering the mudguards a bit and having a couple of the side skirts missing to match the worn effect, as I like my tanks to look "used".

Ben

[badger]

Sadly I didn't get any time on this last night and have visitors down for a few days so it'll be after the weekend before I am able to get back to those roadwheels!

Edited October 28, 2015 by badger

[PlaStix]

Wow! Excellent project.

As Greg said above; the damaged Zimmerit is especially impressive. I have never heard of Part. Could I please inquire where you get it from?

Thank you.

Kind regards,

Stix

[spaddad]

tasty so far, ditto the part parts!

[badger]

Hi Stix and Spaddad

Thanks for looking in. Sorry no progress for a couple of days but there will be more soon I promise!

Part are a Polish company and are very much my chosen favourites for 1/72 AFV etched sets. They are very complicated and comprehensive compared to Eduard, but also more reasonably priced for what you get.

There's 160ish sets in the range so pretty comprehensive. Strangely enough they don't seem very popular in the UK and I struggle to find them.

I think I got the zimmerit and detail set from eBay for this project but normally order them from Jadar Models in Poland (sorry can't post a link as on my phone). Used them many times and recommend them.

Hope this helps. I'll try and post some photos of the general etch set in my next update.

Ben

[PlaStix]

Hi Ben. Thank you very much for the information. I will investigate Jadar Modes!

Kind regards,

Stix

[Ingo Degenhardt]

Cheers dude!

I can't really take credit for that as that's how Part supply it (they also do a non damaged set). To my mind it looks a bit more realistic as it chipped off and got damaged in real life.

I plan on bending / battering the mudguards a bit and having a couple of the side skirts missing to match the worn effect, as I like my tanks to look "used".

Ben

I have the same set by PART here for my Panther and I wonder what the Zimmerit was applied onto, i. e. what will show up beneath the chipped Zimmerit....red primer or bare metal?

[badger]

Hi

Thanks for dropping by.

That's a really good question and one I hadn't thought about. I shall look into it and post the results here.

I would imagine primer rather than bare metal but anyone know for sure?

I have done a bit more on the panther - wheels are now all on.

Photos to come when I get a moment to upload them.

Ben

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Nice looking cat you have here Ben, that Lonewulf cupola looks very nice indeed.....Gonna have to get me some of those fellas.

I recently found another fix for the Revell Panther's peculiar dimensions and angles, but I've not attempted it yet.....I believe its linked at the OTW! review for this kit.

It's amazing to me that we still do not have a really accurate Braille Scale Panther.....Dragon D's & G's are almost as far off as the Revell kits, just in new and interesting ways.

RE - What's under the zimmerit.....Dunkelgelb. The tanks were painted in overall gelb at the factory, zimmerit, camo and unit markings were applied in the field at various stages.

[badger]

Hi Sarge - was hoping you'd drop by!!

Thanks to everyone for looking in - it's taken a while to find time to be able to update this WIP but I have been busy working on the Panther - I promise!!!

First off as promised here's a photo of the Part photo etched set for the Panther - this has an awful lot of very small details and is much more comprehensive than the Eduard set I used on a previous build.

The missing parts are the hull sponson corrections, jack block and one of the tool racks which I have already used on the model.

Next we have the photos that relate to my previous post showing where construction had got to at the start of yesterday's session.

Wheels are all on and I removed the small etch intake cover on the engine deck as it was misaligned and really bugging me! I then stuck the tank to a small piece of laminate with some double sided tape so I can handle it without (hopefully!) knocking off lots of tiny details.

I then had a couple of hours on it last night and made some significant progress.

To start with I cleaned up the filler around the transplanted engine deck intakes. This was quite tricky and to make things easier I removed all the lifting hooks from the kit. I figured there would be replacements on the etch set which turned out to be only partially true!

Part include 4 hooks for the main engine cover, but do not include the 6 that go around the circular intakes. Luckily I have several Panther etched sets in the stash so one of them will donate the extra hooks needed.

Once clean-up was completed I removed the drivers and radio operators periscopes ready for etched replacements. I then attached the six intake grille mesh screens on the engine deck as well as replacing the small circular intake cover and its separate frame.

I then moved on to the turret and added the final two pieces of etched zimmerit to the mantlet.

Next I blended in all the joins in the zimmerit with some Vallejo filler and left this to dry.

I did start folding up the rear stowage boxes which have a crazy amount of folds, but ran out of time to complete these. Once done they will have etch zimmerit applied before fitting to the tank.

As Sarge has said - there are some dimensional problems with this kit. The issues seem to be the hull length, turret position and angle of the glacis plate. I was aware of some of them before I started but these are beyond my current skill set to rectify. I may look at moving the turret back slightly, but more likely will leave it for this model.

I had the Part zimmerit set and really wanted to use this, so correcting the hull would mean this wouldn't then fit. I have a cunning plan to further distract the eye by breaking up the outline with some branches as are often seen on many real vehicles in the Normandy campaign.

There is no really accurate Panther Ausf A kit on the market - the two choices I am aware of in plastic are the Revell kit and the much older Esci / Italeri kit. Whilst each have plus points and negatives I chose the Revell as I wanted to model a late Ausf A with Zimmerit and I prefer Revell's ease of assembly.

By correcting a few of the more obvious faults I hope it will at least look like a Panther to the untrained eye. It will be going on a diorama base with some groundwork and figures which I hope will help hide the dimensional issues a bit.

I also did some research on Zimmerit colours and what is underneath it. As ever with German tanks this is a huge minefield with many conflicting opinions.

I agree with Sarge that the tank would be Dunkelgelb underneath if the Zimmerit was field applied. Some tanks had zimmerit applied in the factory according to some accounts so I would suspect these would be red primer underneath.

Thomas Jentz and Tom Cockle both state red primer but go on to explain that Zimmerit was applied in two layers and it was more common for the upper layer to be chipped off than both as the adhesion of zimmerit to zimmerit was less than zimmerit to steel..

Zimmerit apparently has an ochre pigment included in the mix, so in the photos I have seen it is a pale sandy grey colour not unlike fresh Dunkelgelb. Therefore I plan on painting most of damaged areas this sandy grey with a few scratches and patches of red primer showing thorough in high wear or damage areas. I shall experiment a bit first to see what this looks like however.

More soon!!

Ben

[Sgt.Squarehead]

That really is looking the business now, I'm going to have to give etched zimmerit a go......On something as small and square as possible!

I may be having a change of heart on the colour beneath the zimmerit, from September 1943 zimmerit was applied at the factory, this practice appears to have continued until the end of the run (an order was issued in November to apply zimmerit to Panthers in the field that had not already received it at the factory).....Pg.76 of Jentz & Doyle on the Panther shows a Panther turret very largely covered in zimmerit, beneath it is either primer or raw metal, rather than the gelb that I expected.....As to whether this is typical, your guess is as good as mine!

I've scanned the page so you can be your own judge:

Is this a production turret or a demonstration item?

The apparent thickness of the zimmerit on this turret came as something of a surprise to me, the section of paste over the rear turret hatch looks at least an inch thick.

[GREG DESTEC]

excellent progress Ben, your Panther is looking really good.

[badger]

That really is looking the business now, I'm going to have to give etched zimmerit a go......On something as small and square as possible!

Hi Sarge

Apologies for the lack of updates - busy week this last week!!

I quite like etch zimmerit - certainly less fiddly than doing it yourself and without having to waste half the kit that resin replacements often have you do.

Here's a few more from the shelf of shame to inspire you:

Revell Tiger 1 with Eduard zimmerit - needs quite a lot of work this one to correct and detail - hopefully if I can finish the Panther I'll be inspired to get back to it.

Revell Pz IV Ausf H - completely built and in base dark yellow with Part zimmerit. Needs green and brown patches adding but my current airbrush (Badger 200) sadly isn't up to the job as it can't spray fine enough lines. However I have just treated myself to a new double action one so hopefully this can get finished soon.

Revell (get the idea I quite like Revell kits!!) Stug III Ausf G in the process of being converted into a final production version with ET Models waffle pattern zimmerit (meant for the Dragon kit but it fits well enough).

More to come on the Panther soon ...................................................

[badger]

I may be having a change of heart on the colour beneath the zimmerit, from September 1943 zimmerit was applied at the factory, this practice appears to have continued until the end of the run (an order was issued in November to apply zimmerit to Panthers in the field that had not already received it at the factory).....Pg.76 of Jentz & Doyle on the Panther shows a Panther turret very largely covered in zimmerit, beneath it is either primer or raw metal, rather than the gelb that I expected.....As to whether this is typical, your guess is as good as mine!

Hi Sarge - Thanks for this.

No idea whether it's a demo item or not but it's a very useful photo. I believe the zimmerit thickness is due to the two coats maybe?

My Panther will be a late production version (not sure exactly what month yet as I need to re-read my copy of Jentz's Panther Tank - The Quest for Combat Supremacy to cross reference all the changes and decide what features it will have).

It fits into the time frame for having zimmerit applied at the factory so I still suspect the hull and turret would have been primered to prevent corrosion, I have seen photos of German tanks on assembly lines that show this and it would make sense to me.

There's time for a definitive answer to appear as I'm nowhere near the painting stage yet, but I at least have a fairly logical idea of what it will look like.

No progress this last week due to work commitments and workmen doing some stuff on the house. However I did mock up the final diorama so will let you all have a sneak peek to make up for lack of updates.

The crew and figures are my usual AB Figures and the walking ones will be removed from their bases and pinned. They are just placed on for now, hence the slightly drunken look. The radio operator in the tank also needs a new head as I pinched his for a previous model. I intend to depict a typical Normandy country lane with a high hedge at the back of the base. Have some nice Eduard etched flowers to try out and some new varieties of static grass tufts and weeds I picked up at a local wargames shop some time back.

Hopefully more updates this week as I'm itching to get back to it.

Ben

[badger]

excellent progress Ben, your Panther is looking really good.

Thanks - really pleased people are dropping by as it's giving me the encouragement I need to stay on track with this

Ben

[PlaStix]

Looks like it should be a good scene you are building. I will be interested to see the use you make of the Eduard etched flowers and the new varieties of static grass tufts and weeds. I like making bases for some of my kits and I'd like to introduce a bit more variety in the greenery.

[badger]

Looks like it should be a good scene you are building. I will be interested to see the use you make of the Eduard etched flowers and the new varieties of static grass tufts and weeds. I like making bases for some of my kits and I'd like to introduce a bit more variety in the greenery.

Cheers - I have a few of the different packs of this range:

http://shop.thearmypainter.com/products.php?ProductGroupId=3#Swamp Tuft, 6mm - XP

I bought from here - no connection other than a satisfied customer

http://ibuywargames.co.uk

The Eduard set I will be using is this one:

http://www.eduard.com/store/Eduard/Wild-Flowers-Butterfly-1-72.html?cur=1&force_sid=3aaa281a29a14c01d3778accbaf7257d&redirected=1

I quite like the groundwork stages, so will probably start this fairly soon, as I can then work on it whilst I do bits on the Panther.

Really enjoy the figure painting and looking forward to this - going to have to decide what unit my Panther will be from as to whether the troops and crew are SS (and therefore have camouflage uniforms (or elements of)), or whether they are Wehrmacht and in standard feldgrau uniforms / black panzerwraps.

Ben

[badger]

Hi All

Not forgotten about this build but the combination of a hectic couple of weeks at work, the pending arrival of a baby badger and a pinched nerve in my back haven't left me any time to build.

Hopefully I'll get some time on this soon ..................

[foxy]

Well hope your not taking on too much.

With all those kits on the shelf and half finished!!!!, 'well we all know about that', !!!!.

Good luck on finishing something.

Foxy

[PlaStix]

Hi Ben. Thank you very much for the links. I managed to pick up a couple of packs of the Army Painter Tufts to try out from a LMS. They do look very good. Not had chance to try them yet though.

Cheers again!

Kind regards,

Stix