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FAA Hellcat,s


stevej60

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Hi folk,s,got a Hellcat in the meager stash and want to do an FAA scheme and was wondering how much action

did the Hellcat see over Europe and as it outclassed it,s Japanese opposition how did it fare against German

aircraft?

Edited by stevej60
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Hiya Steve,

The Hellcat was used by the Fleet Air Arm over Norway during the Tirpitz raids and over the South of France during the invasion of Aug.1944, but I don`t think that they came across much opposition. There was a US Navy Hellcat unit covering the S. France landings and one of their pilots scored a couple of kills but I think that they were against light aircraft like the Storch, Henschel 126 or Bucker? I think that they may have been used during D-Day to help cover one of the naval blockades which closed the Channel at each end, hence the D-Day stripes,......but again I don`t think that they came across any fighters?

Cheers

Tony

Edited by tonyot
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At least two Bf109s were shot down by FAA Hellcats over Norway, so it maybe worth looking for accounts of these battles. Those two are where the individual Hellcats involved have not been identified. However, the number of combats are rather low for making any fair comparisons.

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I've always considered them to be of similar performance to a Spitfire V (certainly in terms of ultimate speed) and the Fw190 was superior to the Spitfire V, so......

The Hellcat was built to beat the Zero in every aspect except pure agility in a slow speed dogfight but the German fighters were of a much higher performance than the Zero and in terms of the Fw190, much better armed. I agree with Tony as I don't remember reading about them encountering many enemy fighters over Europe but it would be interesting how the more knowledgable about the tecnicalities of air combat rate the Hellcat Vs the Fw190A and Bf109G.

thanks

Mike

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The Hellcat was not designed to "beat the Zero", despite this appearing in many places, because the design was set before the US encountered the Zero. Although I've been known to argue that the Hellcat was the slowest fighter built with a 2000hp engine (with the admitted exception of the Firebrand) it still has an overall capability superior to that of the Mk.V Spitfire. Just looking at the single point of speed (at what altitude?) does not give a useful comparison.

Indeed, if you look just at the cold numbers of kills vs losses over Darwin, it is by no means clear that the Spitfire Mk.V was better than the Zero, which would by your argument suggest that neither was the Hellcat. I would argue that many other factors (training, leadership, inadequate engineering support) come into this, but there's a lot of wiggle room!

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Well it's not my fault that everything I've read about the Hellcat states, it was designed to beat the Zero. I never said speed was the only consideration but it's always appeared to me that the Spitfire V and Hellcat had a similar performance but again, what I've read might be wrong. The Hellcat was certainly more robust than any Spitfire but I would be surprised if a Hellcat could outclimb a Spitfire or be more agile in every sense as I don't have any means of comparing them in every sense.

My main point is something you've missed altogether. The Hellcat was not designed with combatting the higher performing (and heavier armed) German fighters such as the Bf109G and Fw190, so perhaps it wouldn't have been as good at fighting them as the likes of the late Spitfires, Tempests, P-51's or P-47's. When you compare machines, you also need to do it objectively, we all know that eventually the quality of the German (and Japanese) pilots dropped off that it wouldn't matter what fighter they were given to fly. A case in point would be the Ki-84, clearly a superior fighter potentially than a Hellcat but the lack of decent pilots, fuel and quality materials and construction prevented it's full potential from being realised.

thanks

Mike

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I didn't say it was your fault, just that it wasn't true. I didn't miss your point, but was only making a short response suggesting that you could be under-rating the Hellcat. There is quite a lot of information available in print, and even on the net, from which fuller comparisons can be made but it may take a bit of digging out.

Neither the Spitfire nor P-47 were designed to fight the Fw190 or Bf109 either. They were both designed as bomber interceptors: the Spitfire designed for short range and high climb rate, the P-47 for high altitude (although taking a while to get there!). The F6F was designed as a long(ish) range carrier fighter, but with a high power/weight ratio and a big wing giving it a good agility, it was no slouch.

Edited by Graham Boak
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Hya Steve,

I`ve looked into it further and although Hellcat`s were used mostly in the flak suppressor role during the Tirpitz Raids,..., on the 8th May 1944 a formation of Hellcat`s were intercepted near Gossen Island, Norway by a a formation of Bf109`s and FW190`s from JG5 and the British pilots managed to claim two Bf109`s and a single FW190, the latter falling to Lt. Blythe Ritchie of 800 NAS and made him an ace. Six days later a formation 18 Hellcat`s from 800 & 804 NAS`s led by Lt. Cdr. Stan Orr were attacking shipping off the Norwegian coast near Rorvik and a section of them came across a formation of five He 115 floatplane and shot two of them down. The remaining three floatplanes immediately set down on the water where they were strafed by the Hellcat`s which had since dropped their bombs following their shipping attack. These were the last kills made against German aircraft .

Cheers

Tony

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The Hellcat marking option in the Eduard combo pack (JV132) is one credited with an Fw190 (although no Fw190s were lost that day, so it was likely a 109G) over Norway.

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