bertie Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Hi folks, Well I'm getting really frustrated with those "strutty cross-brace thingies". They're causing me grief when attempting to remove them because the plastic is so frail. I use very fine sprue cutters but the slightest pressure cause the plastic to bend or worse still pop out of their glued wing points.I can't seem to find any after market photo-etched struts or better quality strut rods. I didn't have this problem when building the "new" Gladiator.All the build reviews I've come across don't refer to problems I've had. I love biplanes and intended to do a couple of civvy ones plus the restored one based at RAAF Museum, Point Cook (A17-692) but I'm getting the feeling the new Airfix Tiger Moth is a tad over-engineered. Any suggestions or thoughts greatly appreciated. Bertie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) Can I suggest removing the cross-braces before gluing the struts into the wings? The old Tiger Moth did without these cross-braces, as did and do a large number of biplane kits over the years. They have been made successfully by many kids and serious modellers. OK, I had smaller fingers and no arthritis when I was a kid. If you don't like that approach, how about using a knife to weaken the join before assembly, so that the final removal creates less stress? PS The clippers are one of my favourite tools, but we are warned that a sharp knife is better at avoiding damage - if considerably slower. Clipping close to the part is not recommended, but that is what has to be done in this case. Edited October 10, 2015 by Graham Boak 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewE Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 My solution was to ignore the instructions and do as follows:- 1) attach the central struts to the fuselage first (instead of the top wing). 2) attach the top wing 3) attach the wing struts one by one having removed the cross-brace thingies beforehand. Even this method did not prevent me breaking one strut but at least it was easy to repair before attaching to the model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertie Posted October 11, 2015 Author Share Posted October 11, 2015 Thanks chaps, I had thought about doing what you suggested. Just goes to show that following instruction sequences is not always the right way to build. I do wish Airfix/Hornby would use harder plastic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwinism Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 I made this model a year or so ago and remember having the same trouble cutting away the x's. Thank goodness I had a pair of sprue cutters or otherwise it would have been even more difficult. As bertie says, the idea would have probably worked if Airfix had used harder plastic. It has certainly put me off buying the Gladiator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewE Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Bertie, I hope you manage to finish the build because I have to say that apart from the struts being rather delicate I think this kit is one of the best Airfix have ever produced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stever219 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 You could try using a fine razor saw (the smaller of the pair that Scale Aircraft Modelling sell is quite adequate), drawing the blade in one direction only. I used this method to get the pitot for the 1/48th and 1/72th Gnats, both very fragile mouldings, off their spruces without breaking them 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Coombs Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 If the cabane struts are four-square, there shouldn't be any great problem putting the upper wing on them and installing the struts individually (having removed the cross-braces, of course). It worked for the Gladiator and Tiger Moth I have built so far. I didn't break any struts, but it was a close-run thing. They are delicate, to say the least. The solution presented by the new Swordfish kit for doing struts is elegant and practical, but the wings are a lot thicker and need to be for it to work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedB Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 I found the tiny Moth a bit of a challenge - on my build I fitted the struts with the "strutty cross-brace thingies" and then removed them with an RS Productions nano saw and then trimmed with a new scalpel blade. Worked for me HTH 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyot Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 I`m building the Tiger Moth and have broken two of the struts which I`ve found unbelievably fragile! So much so that I`m seriously worried about rigging the thing! I`d like some white metal struts too! Cheers Tony 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Aero Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Using sprue/side cutters causes outwards pressure on the struts as the blades vee into the plastic. You could take out the centre of the cross braces with an old pointed blade heated with a candle flame, being careful not to touch anything else. With no connection between the main struts the remaining thin pieces should then clip off. ensuring the flat side of the cutter is adjacent to the strut. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyot Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Hiya John, I removed the cross bracing before adding the struts to the kit but the slightest bit of pressure when attaching the upper wing just broke the struts like matchwood! It has certainly put me off doing another one which is a real shame. Cheers Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Vale Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 I removed the bracing as well so I could clean up the struts properly, and painted/installed them individually after gluing the wing to the cabane struts and letting it dry. Bit scary popping them into place but it did work and they're nice and fine. I think the Airfix Moth is a nice kit but suffers from "almost great" fit - it feels like you won't need to do any work which makes it somehow more annoying when you have to do even a little bit. I think I needed to fettle or fiddle with pretty much every part in some way. Cheers, Will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Dapple Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 I removed the bracing as well so I could clean up the struts properly, and painted/installed them individually after gluing the wing to the cabane struts and letting it dry... I nearly did this - I mean I did that, but I don't remember gluing the cabane struts to the top wing... I fitted them to the fuselage and installed the wing struts one by one. I didn't fancy trying to remove the x-brace after fitting. I think I did the same thing with the Gladiator too. Cheers, Stew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Vale Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Sorry, didn't describe it well but I did what you did - glue the struts to the fuselage, let dry, then attach the wing. W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptmvarsityfan Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Hi, I found the struts to be the worst point of an otherwise very nice kit. I have actually found the cabane struts to be more of a problem, have completed three models but took me five kits to do so. In one box the cabane struts were covered in flash and and the runner attached directly to a strut member. The cabane shattered on another model. Had hoped to build half a dozen of these kits but will now likely stop at three. For the main struts I attached them to the wing then removed most of the x-pieces with clippers then VERY carefully trimmed back to the struts with a sharp knife. Surprised that Airfix have managed to use a plastic that is both soft and brittle! Think this kit may well put off a few youngsters! Bit of a shame as it can be built up into a superb model as per the examples on the Tiger Moth group build. Cheers, Paul 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertie Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 WOW!!! I didn't expect so many similar responses. All I can say is that this kit won't be built by too many junior modellers. Thanks for all the responses and I'll endeavor to struggle on. The funny thing is I didn't have this problem building the original Airfix Bristol F2B (yes,I am a bit of a fossil!!) I sincerely hope that Airfix/Hornby reconsider their choice of such soft plastic. Happy modelling to all from sunny,Springtime Melbourne. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 You could take out the centre of the cross braces with an old pointed blade heated with a candle flame, being careful not to touch anything else. With no connection between the main struts the remaining thin pieces should then clip off. ensuring the flat side of the cutter is adjacent to the strut. John Was going to suggest this too - I use it to remove Airfix control columns from the sprue, as any other method I mangle them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishbed Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Using sprue/side cutters causes outwards pressure on the struts as the blades vee into the plastic. You could take out the centre of the cross braces with an old pointed blade heated with a candle flame, being careful not to touch anything else. With no connection between the main struts the remaining thin pieces should then clip off. ensuring the flat side of the cutter is adjacent to the strut. John This is how I removed the offending part on my gladiator without any issues. Hot old blade followed by new sharp blade :-) Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellsprop Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 What Andrew said! It's a fantastic kit, providing you think about how to put it together. I cut of the weird cross braces, attached the struts that go from the cowl to the wing, then plopped the upper wing on top. Ben 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Just to say that one of the struts on one of my Tigers (or did I only get one?) was broken at one of the 'cross-brace' points. Agree, they seem rather soft and frail. bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galgos Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 .....and why have Airfix not even provided the two small bracing struts at the rear of the main undercarriage legs? It just looks wrong without them. Max PS Tiger Moth fans, you'll see several fine examples of completed and WIP ones on the STGB which is ending in a fortnight's time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayB24 Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 I build wwi aircraft. I'm used to lots of struts, cabanes etc. In 1/72 it doesnt matter if the plastic is soft or hard, they are always fragile. Always use a jig to mount wings, that way the upper or lower (Bristol Fighter) wing is restrained and so is the fuselage. Then you're only manipulating the strut. Dont think flat on the table either, I have built small jigs where the nose was at a 75 degree angle down which means its easier to see and manipulate the struts. Predrill all rigging points and dont pull too hard, in 1/72 I use stretched sprue as its way easier. For struts use one of the PE saws to separate them from the sprues, Ive resorted to tape hold the part from flexing. With some struts you can also replicate them from bamboo chop sticks.. Sounds like a lot of work but isnt and the bamboo has grain that stops it breaking as easily. I've also used flattened 0.005 brass tubes. There used to be a brass product called Strutz but I dont think its available anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveCS Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 My suggestion, while it's an expensive option (but if you build biplanes fairly often it is something that you will definitely re-use), is to opt for thin walled micro brass tubing via Albion Alloys to create some more solid struts. It worked for me with that kit (I did it in order to create a DH-82c as those struts are different from the DH-82a). Again, it's not inexpensive but at least you'll have effective struts that support and are solid on that kit. Cheers, Dave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espeefan Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 This uses bamboo struts as RayB24 describes: I used the kit's struts on this one, no real problems-Have not built the Tiger Moth though, but the Gladiator went together fine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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