Truro Model Builder Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 If MRA.4 had been built entirely from new then I think that BAE would have had a good chance in the MPA market, but it was all down to cutting costs as usual. As to whether the RAF is likely to get the P-8, very possibly. It depends on what the MoD wants any regenerated MPA capability to do, and it is worth bearing in mind that several senior officers were taken on a lengthy trip in one of the JMSDF P-1s that came to Fairford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Foster60 Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 If the RAF gets true MPA aircraft again I will only believe it when they are in Squadron Service, did I say Squadron service, sorry I meant a Flight, though it will probabbly be comanded by a Group Captin. Nigel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robvulcan Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I remember seeing the MRA4 fly looked fantastic to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabba Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 I was told that the Typhoon can't target any of its own weapons yet and relys on Tornados to do it for them. Seems a shame if true after 30 years of development. Cheers Rob At the time of the Gulf War the Tornado had to rely on the ancient Buccaneer to lase for it and it had been in service for 10 years then. The TIALD pod was rushed into service at that time otherwise it might have been longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabba Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Perhaps it's been canned because we now operate our Reaper fleet from there along with the Air Seekers on top of the likes of Sentry and Sentinel. I get the feeling they don't want the general public that close to our intelligence hardware anymore, thus the suggestion to switch to Scampton - lots of history, but not a lot to keep under wraps. When I worked on 51 Sqn at RAF Wyton we used to have a yearly air show there. Admittedly it was not as big as Waddingtons but it was still a security risk as our aircraft and other parts of the station were classed as secret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartp Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 (edited) Jabba, on 04 Oct 2015 - 4:50 PM, said:Jabba, on 04 Oct 2015 - 4:50 PM, said:At the time of the Gulf War the Tornado had to rely on the ancient Buccaneer to lase for it and it had been in service for 10 years then. In fairness to the Tornado, the war role it was assigned at the time didn't need laser-guided accuracy. Secrecy or not, the sad truth appears to be that there is no appetite within the RAF, at any level, for running airshows 'in house' any more. I remember Finningley, Church Fenton and Leuchars fondly from the 70s and 80s, but, lets face it, the RAF was three times the size then and apart from SHFNI for most of that time they weren't actually trying to fight anyone. Edited October 4, 2015 by stuartp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Aero Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 They've gone downhill since I started going to Airshows Meteor 8's fired their 20 mm's in the gun butts. No Neptunes or flypast by a Sunderland, Meteor 14's, Lincolns, Baliols or Vallettas or B.45s... John 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selwyn Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 I don't think that XM607's existence relies on the airshow somehow. Rob, go and find the current issue of Air Forces Monthly, which has an excellent article on the integration of the Tornado's armament onto Typhoon. As PLC1966 says, Typhoon FGR.4s s can currently carry Paveway II (GBU-16) and IV LGBs and self designate using the Litening III pod. I believe that the GBU-10 Paveway II is not quite cleared for service, and validation work to carry Storm Shadow and Brimstone is ongoing with completion due for 2018. They do of course have a full air defence capability with AMRAAM and ASRAAM, and Meteor will follow in due course, while a reconnaissance capability is also being pursued. I'm not sure what you mean by saying that abandoning the Nimrod AEW was due to a security gap, Rob. The whole saga was a dismal one, but it had nothing to do with security. Read up on it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Aerospace_Nimrod_AEW3 RAF Typhoons do not carry GBU 16 or GBU 10. But both of these weapons have been cleared on European air force Typhoon aircraft for many years. They use the Paveway II (UK) and the Enhanced PW II(UK) LGB's targeted with Lightning III. They also carry PW IV PGB. They have been able to self designate for quite a few years now. Selwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascoteer Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Secrecy or not, the sad truth appears to be that there is no appetite within the RAF, at any level, for running airshows 'in house' any more. Which, if the case, is totally understandable. When I joined in 1981, the RAF (and WRAF) totalled some 140,000 uniformed regular personnel, it now totals some 33,000. In fact the Air Cadet Organisation is approaching twice the size of the Parent Service! Factor in also that since January 1991 (aside from about a 6 month break at the end of 1991/early 1992) the RAF has been on constant combat ops. People are (and have been) working pretty bloody hard. To actually run an Airshow is manpower intensive (I know, I was involved with the organisation of the last ever RAF Finningley show).The Contracted Out trades aren't going to do it (not without a LOT of overtime) and there just aren't the light blue bodies left to do it without severely overstretching people, which would really be good for morale not! Even back in 1995 and with a lot of student aircrew to do things like set up fencing, FOD plods, etc, we were overstretched and it teed a fair number of people off what with leave bans and having to give up a weekend just so that Joe Public could go 'ooh' and 'ah' at flashy pointy whizzy things, especially at a time when we all knew that Finningley would be closing some 2 months later. And bear in mind this was a Training Station with a fairly relaxed schedule and not a Front Line Station. Sad as it is, the days of the big airshow outside of RIAT are long gone. Don't blame the RAF, blame the bloody Politicians that carved the RAF up. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilfish Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I am reliably informed (by my ex-wife, who works in the Mess at Scampton) that the new venue for the RAF Waddington show, will be RAF Scampton, starting in 2017. Apparently the Station Commander did want to start in 2016, but it was impossible to get the infrastructure in place in time. I'm happy, as I live right next to the runway! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breaker Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 Which, if the case, is totally understandable. When I joined in 1981, the RAF (and WRAF) totalled some 140,000 uniformed regular personnel, it now totals some 33,000. In fact the Air Cadet Organisation is approaching twice the size of the Parent Service! Factor in also that since January 1991 (aside from about a 6 month break at the end of 1991/early 1992) the RAF has been on constant combat ops. People are (and have been) working pretty bloody hard. To actually run an Airshow is manpower intensive (I know, I was involved with the organisation of the last ever RAF Finningley show).The Contracted Out trades aren't going to do it (not without a LOT of overtime) and there just aren't the light blue bodies left to do it without severely overstretching people, which would really be good for morale not! Even back in 1995 and with a lot of student aircrew to do things like set up fencing, FOD plods, etc, we were overstretched and it teed a fair number of people off what with leave bans and having to give up a weekend just so that Joe Public could go 'ooh' and 'ah' at flashy pointy whizzy things, especially at a time when we all knew that Finningley would be closing some 2 months later. And bear in mind this was a Training Station with a fairly relaxed schedule and not a Front Line Station. Sad as it is, the days of the big airshow outside of RIAT are long gone. Don't blame the RAF, blame the bloody Politicians that carved the RAF up. I was feeling very bitter about the whole thing but this post has made me look at it in a completely different light. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F4u Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I was told the Runway work was complete obviously duff information !! With regards to Scampton you have the Arrows there but they are moving to Cranwell at some point and the people who have the Hunter and Buccaneer HHA I think, is that all that's operating there ? So makes me wonder how long Scampton will remain in the RAF !! Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascoteer Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 (edited) Move the Reds back to Cranditz? Oh my, you couldn't make it up if true! It worked so well when we tried it before back in 1995... Oh, yhat's right it didn't! It was a bloody disaster and the reason why they moved back to Scampton. Personally I can't see an airshow at Scampton. Firstly there isn't the infrastructure, secondly communications and road access are a nightmare and thirdly (and most tellingly) there is the(uncontrolled by the RAF) track along the eastern boundary. which people will invade rather than paying to enter. Edited October 8, 2015 by Ascoteer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Norman Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Looks like the Death is slow for shows in Britain now, Time to look to Europe to provide the on base Experience and spectacle. Waddo was a fab Venue gonna miss that trip.The Seaside show just leave me cold and I could not be Arsed traveling from Ireland to go to one either. At least there still is Shuttleworth..... Ahhh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F4u Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I'm also led to believe that some areas of Scampton are in poor condition, but as Ascoteer says some areas of the base is not RAF does make you wonder about the future ? So that leaves Cosford with its short runway that no jets can use !! Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilfish Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 The Reds aren't moving to Cranwell, or Waddo. It makes no sense, as they found out before. There is no open airspace over either for them to practice, so they have to fly over......Scampton. Which means they have to have fire, medical, ATC, etc etc. Anyway, as I said, my ex, who is in charge of front of house at Scampton mess, says they have been told 2017. Yes, I can see problems. But nothing Waddo didn't have. "Uncontrolled roads" can be controlled. Even the open quarters patch can be controlled. All these problems were sorted at Waddo. I worked at Waddo airshow for 10 years. It worked! The company that use Scampton are Hawker Hunter Aviation, and I believe (but not sure) that BAe use it too. But, RAF Scampton is still completely RAF. These companies just use the airfield and hangars. In fact, on the families days, they are more than happy to bring out their Hunters, Bucc and Sukhois.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) Being a local and having several contacts at the base I got to hear about this some time ago so the news doesn't come as a surprise at all, apparently it was always on the cards. Sad to see it go ....I'll just have to make do with living on the short finals approach ! Like others I'd be quite surprised if Scampton was up to the task of hosting a large show, is all the necessary infrastructure still in place ? half the living quarters are now privately owned so don't know how they'd all feel about the event, hopefully just enjoy it but you never know. As for the flying I'm assuming it would be something like Cosford as I was under the impression that the runway weight restriction was now severely limited as it hasn't been touched for years. As Debs points out there is easy access to watch the show right around the base so they would have to restrict parking on all the side roads, (which in fairness they have to do at Waddo as well), access from the A15 is easy enough though but I would imagine the tail-backs might be rather nasty, (thanks Gawd for my push bike !) ... it would be great if they could pull it off as it used to be a top venue, but I certainly won't hold my breath, (especially if the local council is involved). Sadly I feel it might well be out of the hands of folks that would really want it to happen. I well remember the fantastic 1970's shows with Vulcans littering the airfield with one from each squadron parked up on the pans having been 'bulled' up to showroom condition.......long gone days, wouldn't be surprised to see shows all but disappear in the near future. they are more than happy to bring out their Hunters, Bucc and Sukhois.... True, seen them out there a few times and the Hunter makes the occasional flight over the house..... Edited October 10, 2015 by general melchett 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilfish Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Well, I'm hoping it does happen, because I live right on the edge of the runway. I have the runway in view from my back garden and the peri-track is literally 100-odd yards from my kitchen window. All I know for sure is that the Station Commander is apparently backing it to the hilt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace From Outer Space Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Don't blame the RAF, blame the bloody Politicians that carved the RAF up. Absolutely, and it does not matter what colour tie the politicians wear. Cheers Viv 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shar2 Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Keep politics out of this please, no matter how frustrating it can be, there are enough sites covering all that stuff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace From Outer Space Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Sorry Shar, but in my defence M'lud I was not being partisan.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shar2 Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 I realise that Ace, otherwise the post would have been deleted and you would be on the naughty step Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace From Outer Space Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Naughty step? Moi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F4u Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 I think it's a case of lets wait and see but I hope it happens and will be just as good as Waddington ! ( More duff info on the Reds sorry ) Guy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurrantBunbury Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 I think it's a case of lets wait and see but I hope it happens and will be just as good as Waddington ! Hear, hear. I reckon we'll all support it, whatever it turns out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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