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Beaufighter TF.X Wing Armament Question


andyrowe

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Hey everyone, need some help please. I'm building Airfix's Beaufighter TF.X in the 144 Squadron colours (Coastal Command I think) which is armed with a torpedo. The wings have shell ejection chutes on the undersides but no gun muzzle holes in the leading edge. I have found out that the wing guns were omitted from some Mk.X's and probably had the muzzle holes blanked. But does anyone know if the shell ejection chutes were blanked as well? I have looked at period photos but it's very difficult to tell. Any guidance would be much appreciated. Thanks.

Regards

Andy

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The basic rule was that the Coastal Beaufighters had a fuel tank in the leading edge and so no guns. Not just "some" Mk.Xs but Mk.VICs as well. Also Mk.IC? I don't know that this was always the case but I'd assume so unless there's photos/text showing otherwise. If this was, as I believe it was initially, a conversion done at an MU then you can see the ejection slots remaining, but the Mk.Xs were built as such so there's be no need for them - and that little bit faster production. I suspect that the ejection slots on the underside of the kit are for versions with wing guns, i.e. night fighters.

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I suspect that the ejection slots on the underside of the kit are for versions with wing guns, i.e. night fighters.

I taught the same, especially looking at the way the tailplanes and rudder are done, but holes would have to be drilled in the leading edge... I know I'd make a complete hash of that! Mind you, that's a whole different discussion.

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large.jpg?action=e&cat=photographs

From the IWM - are those patched over gun ports on the leading edge? According to the caption:

Damaged Bristol Beaufighter TF Mark X, NE831 'PL-O', of No. 144 Squadron RAF, at rest after crash-landing at Dallachy, Morayshire, on returning from the costly attack on the German destroyer Z-33 and its escorting vessels in Fordefjord, Norway, on 9 February 1945. 31

Beaufighters of the Dallachy Strike Wing were involved in the operation, of which 9 were shot down by German fighters and anti-aircraft defences. Flight Sergeant S Butler (pilot) and Flight Sergeant Nicholls (navigator) in NE831 were the last to attack the vessels, during which they were hit by flak from Z-33, and then by fire from a Focke Wulf Fw 190. After manoeuvring violently, Butler managed to escape over the North Sea to make a successful wheels-up landing at Dallachy.

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Thanks for the photo - it certainly looks that way. It raises the possibility - in this example the near certainty - that the TF Mk.Xs were built to a different standard than (at least some of) the earlier Coastal Beaufighters. It still leaves the question of the model's leading edges open, however.

Presumably other photos will also show these guns.

I suspect that the rocket fairings will cover up these openings: which triggers the memory of another thread discussing precisely that point - about RAAF Beaufighters?

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Cheers, that's a great photo. That Beau looks like it was hammered out of a single piece of metal!

Are those whip aerials protruding from the either side of the nose cone?

Yes, some kind of aerial but I have never been able to find out exactly what they were for. I first asked about this on a few forums 10 years ago but have yet to get a clear answer. I have also seen similar aerials on Beauforts.

Chris

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The large whip aerial above the pilot's left shoulder is I think for Gee

The short blade aerials either side of the nose were originally part of the ASV setup. There as also a large Yagi aerial pointing forwards under the nose. Terry Higgins states in the May Airfix model world that the blade aerials are receivers and the yagi aerial was the transmitter, but I'd associate a yagi aerial more with recieving than transmitting (it's your basic TV aerial)?

The Yagi aerial was removed, but the blade aerials were retained and re-used for Rebecca until aerials inside the wingtips were introduced. Rebecca and Gee were both navigation systems

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Beaufighter's on Flak suppression may have had the 6 x .303's plus the 4 x 20mm , as they were "slick" aircraft without the drag of Torpedo's or Rockets could keep the wing .303's, the Mk X could have wing .303's ( with no wing tanks) or Rockets (with wing tanks) or Torpedo (with wing tank) all the options are possible just not all at once, though I have a photo of a Mk X with rockets and a 200 gal drop tank on the torpedo mount shackles.

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The large whip aerial above the pilot's left shoulder is I think for Gee

The short blade aerials either side of the nose were originally part of the ASV setup. There as also a large Yagi aerial pointing forwards under the nose. Terry Higgins states in the May Airfix model world that the blade aerials are receivers and the yagi aerial was the transmitter, but I'd associate a yagi aerial more with recieving than transmitting (it's your basic TV aerial)?

The Yagi aerial was removed, but the blade aerials were retained and re-used for Rebecca until aerials inside the wingtips were introduced. Rebecca and Gee were both navigation systems

Perhaps, but I have never seen a Rebecca aerial that was just a thin blade. They always look like the " H " shaped antennas that you see on the noses of Lancaster, Halifaxes, etc. Also, none of the other No, 404 Sq. Beaus that have the whisker antennas have a Yagi aerial fitted.

http://www.404squadron.com/

Chris

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The large whip aerial above the pilot's left shoulder is I think for Gee

The short blade aerials either side of the nose were originally part of the ASV setup. There as also a large Yagi aerial pointing forwards under the nose. Terry Higgins states in the May Airfix model world that the blade aerials are receivers and the yagi aerial was the transmitter, but I'd associate a yagi aerial more with recieving than transmitting (it's your basic TV aerial)?

The Yagi aerial was removed, but the blade aerials were retained and re-used for Rebecca until aerials inside the wingtips were introduced. Rebecca and Gee were both navigation systems

The Yagi (or Yagi-Uda) antenna array can transmit and receive. In typical ASV applications the receiving array was usually 'T' dipoles in series on each side of the rear fuselage or 'H' dipoles each side of the nose with the transmitting "TV Aerial" centrally under the nose or projecting from the leading edge of one wing. I have seen the same single dipoles on each side of the nose on some Beauforts too but I would like to find out more about them and if they really were the receiving antenna for ASV radar. A photo of a Beau with a Yagi antenna array under the nose does not have the twin dipoles.

Nick

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Also, none of the other No, 404 Sq. Beaus that have the whisker antennas have a Yagi aerial fitted.

Chris

Maybe not, but 489 had them. If Terry is right about thier use, then 404 were using Rebecca and not ASV.

Nick, check the colour photo towards the bottom of the page linked above, the blade aerial and it's mount is visible right on the shadowline of the nacelle on the nose if you look closely.

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Maybe not, but 489 had them. If Terry is right about thier use, then 404 were using Rebecca and not ASV.

Nick, check the colour photo towards the bottom of the page linked above, the blade aerial and it's mount is visible right on the shadowline of the nacelle on the nose if you look closely.

Yes, thanks, but there are also two photographs of Beaus in the Datafile book showing the twin nose dipoles but without a central Yagi array. What I'm after is confirmation that they were the receiving dipoles for the ASV radar rather than something else.

Nick

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Hi again Nick,

Sorry to dwell here (with apologies to the OP for topic drift) but just to clarify…

That description describes, with only partial accuracy, ASV.II in its full-installation Long Range Air-to-Surface Vessel (LRASV) form. What follows is grossly oversimplified, but should give a general understanding.

LRASV was actually two aerial systems – one side looking, or "search" and the other forward looking, or "homing" – slaved to a single indicating system inside the aircraft. The words in parenthesis are MAP / RAF terms… those in other armed forces using similar equipment may have been different.

The full kit of both systems were typically installed on larger GR types that ranged far and wide in search of U-boats. Various configurations of aerials – usually in-series dipoles as you describe – were used to receive the search signal. Transmission aerials for this part of the system ranged from the larger yagi arrays as seen on the RCAF's Cansos and some RAF Catalinas, to the huge vertical dipole arrays as seen on Whitleys, Wellingtons, early Liberators, and Sunderlands. For each aircraft's separate homing aerial system, the transmission was usually via a single Yagi array (like the Type 118 as used on the Hudson and Beaufort) with reception on two larger Yagi set at symmetrical (mirror image) angles under each wing.

The aircraft would patrol with the search set switched to the operator's indicating unit and, should something worth investigating be detected, he would direct the pilot to steer course towards it and switch power and indication to the homing system for more precise detection and azimuth indication. In some ASV.II (LRASV) A.R.I., which varied from aircraft type to aircraft type, there was also an indicator on the flight deck for the homing phase.

Smaller shorter ranging / tactical strike types would typically have only the less demanding homing set installed.

Cheers,

Terry

Thanks Terry. That all makes perfect sense except for your preliminary reference to the Type 12 'whiskers' being receiving aerials. In the Yagi the transmitter and receiver dipoles (the driver) are usually positioned either side of the central rod. A longer transverse conducting rod behind them is the reflector and in front a series of successively shorter rods are directors (enhancers) of the signal to create a directional radiation pattern. The number, length and spacing of those is determined by experiment (Yagi theory is difficult to apply and inaccurate so empirical design is required). On the side arrays (I should have said transmitting-receiving in the description above) the fuselage skin acts as the reflector.

The Type 12 should have consisted either of a transmitting dipole on the left and a receiving dipole on the right to substitute for that part of the Yagi and to create a narrow lobe directional radiation pattern or duplex transmitting and receiving within each dipole (as you suggest later) to create a directional radiation pattern of two intersecting lobes. Either way the range and receiving pattern(s) must have been quite limited.

'Homing' usually referred to navigational applications rather than target search/acquisition except where the radar is designed specifically to detect non-passive transmitted signals from the target/destination, e.g. from its own radar or radio systems. Usage changed with the introduction of homing missiles.

"Lucero" permitted a single display unit to be used with the various Rebecca applications.

"Rooster" is usually used to describe an airborne radar beacon which enables other radar-equipped aircraft to home on it.

Nick

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