Luft46 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) I managed to find this little gem on eBay recently... One of my favourite aircraft of all time and a legendary combat plane, i have very fond memories of watching these at Mildenhall and Weathersfield as a kid so im really looking forward to this build. The plane in question is 68-0493 which had a confirmed Mig-21 kill in July 1972. Its a good looking kit with plenty of detail, very little flash and a really nice decal sheet so it should go together quite well. Im going to try some different paint on this build, im usually a Tamiya kinda guy but ive heard good things about Hataka paints and the colours are apparently a really good match so looking forward to giving these a try. Edited September 16, 2015 by Luft46 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PZRGREN Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I'm in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper_city Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Great choice. I will be interested to see how the paints work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight_Flyer Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I think you may have to modify the kit for it to be a Vietnam bird. Looking at the box art, that F-4E has slatted wings and I'm not sure they were introduced or retro-fitted until after the war. You may have to check the tail code as well, most MiG Killers kept their kill markings when re-assigned to different squadrons after the conflict ended. Other than that, look forward to seeing the completed model. The Phantom is one of my favorite planes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luft46 Posted September 17, 2015 Author Share Posted September 17, 2015 Retrofitting of the slatted wings started in October 72 so they are accurate. As for tail codes, she wore 'JJ' and 'PN' during the war so again, markings are also accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyhunter66 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Ok this should be good! Interested to see how those paints work out Cheers Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luft46 Posted September 17, 2015 Author Share Posted September 17, 2015 I managed to make a start on the Phantom yesterday, got quite a lot done considering i only spent a few hours on her but already I've run into a few problems. Some of the parts on this kit are a terrible fit and the main body of the plane is quite warped. Its going to take a lot of fannying around to make good but i suppose that's half the fun of it. Cockpit is now finished but i discovered that these Fujimi decals don't work with Microsol at all! They curled up and started melting right before my eyes so i may have a rethink about using them on the rest of the build. As you can see from the picture, the cockpit decals started to disintegrate and curl after a coat of Microsol so i patched them up as best as i could and sealed them with a coat of clear and matt varnish. This aircraft was brand new during Vietnam so no weathering of the cockpit as such, just a little silver drybrushed onto the main surfaces. Nose has been well weighted with soldering wire and the insides of the air intakes have been sprayed with XF-16 flat silver with a top coat of X-19 smoke, with a drop of flat black added to darken it up a little. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 If you haven't closed the intakes yet, you may think of repainting them: the intake trunkings on the Phantom were white.Regarding the slats, very few slatted wing F-4Es served in Vietnam, to find out if this was one of them would require to find the assignment history of this particular aircraft. Good start on the cockpit, the decals look much better than the ones I found in my Fujimi F-4N. I'm not surprised that you found warped fuselage halves, all Fujimi J79 Phantom kits I've seen seem to suffer from the same problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hacker Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 . I'm not surprised that you found warped fuselage halves, all Fujimi J79 Phantom kits I've seen seem to suffer from the same problem Good to know. The Fujimi British phantoms seem ok so if the J79 are like that then the best bet would to go Hasegawa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Good to know. The Fujimi British phantoms seem ok so if the J79 are like that then the best bet would to go Hasegawa The Fujimi British variants are much better kits than the same company's J79 powered ones in terms of detail, fit and accuracy. Yes, for the US versions Hasegawa is the best, while Fujimi is best for the British ones. Still all Fujimi kits can be made into good replicas with some work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luft46 Posted September 18, 2015 Author Share Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) If you haven't closed the intakes yet, you may think of repainting them: the intake trunkings on the Phantom were white. Regarding the slats, very few slatted wing F-4Es served in Vietnam, to find out if this was one of them would require to find the assignment history of this particular aircraft. Good start on the cockpit, the decals look much better than the ones I found in my Fujimi F-4N. I'm not surprised that you found warped fuselage halves, all Fujimi J79 Phantom kits I've seen seem to suffer from the same problem Giorgio, while its true that the vast majority of the Navy and Marines F-4's had white intakes, the same cant be said for the Air Force F-4E's in Vietnam, these mainly had a mix of black or dark green intake trunking. Having had a good look at other examples of this plane that have been modelled, I'm going to stick to black intakes. As for the wing slats issue, priority was given to aircraft 'In Theatre' and all of the 34 TFS aircraft had been fitted with slats by mid to late 1973. in fact, all of blocks 39, 40 and 41 F-4s had received slats before the end of hostilities in Vietnam. (68-0493 was a Block 40) The below pics are dated 1974 and 1976 respectively. Typical 34 TFS F-4E dated 1973 68-0493 as depicted in 1972 Edited September 18, 2015 by Luft46 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) Even on USAF Phantoms, the intakes are white for most of their length. It's only the first part that is painted in the surrounding camouflage colours. How far into the intakes the camouflage goes, depends on the era and the scheme. This picture shows well what I mean http://www.aviationspectator.com/files/images/McDonnell-Douglas-F-4-Phantom-II-266.preview.jpg Nice pictures there, thanks for posting them ! Note that the two pics of 68-0493 were taken when serving with 18th TFW in Alaska (top) and with 3rd TFW in the Philippines (lower). The picture of 269 is also very nice, the load is particularly interesting. This aircraft has been captioned as having slats in one of the Osprey books, however I can't see any slat in the picture In any case, looking forward to seeing more of your model ! Edited September 18, 2015 by Giorgio N 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene K Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 I'm going to stick to black intakes. That would be absolutely WRONG ... absolutely!! Giorgio diplomatically gave some excellent "advice". Gene K 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cooper Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) I think you may have to modify the kit for it to be a Vietnam bird. Looking at the box art, that F-4E has slatted wings and I'm not sure they were introduced or retro-fitted until after the war. As Luft 46 & Giorgio observed, leading-edge extensions were added on F-4Es starting with mid-1972. By December that year, most of in-theatre F-4Es should've got them. EDIT: and yes, except for occassional painting of the 'first few 10-30 centimetres', insides of intakes were always white. Note: early F-4Es operated by 388th TFW have worn a number of personal insignia, and some had their radomes painted in tan. Zotz has a beautiful - and really well-researched - set of decals: Edited September 30, 2015 by Tom Cooper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight_Flyer Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 As Luft 46 & Giorgio observed, leading-edge extensions were added on F-4Es starting with mid-1972. By December that year, most of in-theatre F-4Es should've got them. Hi Tom, I don't suppose you know of any pics or evidence to confirm most in-theatre F-4E's had retro fitted slats? Last time I looked into this no definitive conclusions could be determined. Giorgio has mentioned in his posting very few slatted wing F-4Es served in Vietnam and I kinda agree with him. I tried doing some more research on the internet and wasn't able to find anything to the contrary except no one can say for sure and the program to retro fit started around October 1972. Could be I'm looking in the wrong place which is always a possibility for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cooper Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) Was a little bit 'overenthusiastic', becase I recalled that corresponding upgrades were introduced starting with summer of 1972... but couldn't recall the date at which they began arriving in the SEA. So, consulted an absolutely superb book to this topic, 'Clashes', by Marshall L Mitchel. It lacks photos, but it's extremely clear in this regards. Summary of most important details: during summer of 1972, the USAF launched the project Rivet Haste, within frame of which the F-4Es were equipped with LES (leading-edge extensions), enemy-IFF-interrogators, TISEOs, and so-called Mod552 cockpits (something like prototype of HOTAS). So far, I was right. But, instead of using such aircraft to replace existing F-4Ds and F-4Es of units already deployed in SEA, the USAF created a new unit (arguably, staffed with crews trained for air combat), and then designated it the 555th TFS. This 'Tripple Nickel' squadron had very little in common with the famous F-4D-equipped unit active over NV for most of that year. Plus, it ended flying air-to-ground sorties over Laos and South Vietnam, because by the time new F-4Es arrived, Linebacker I ended. That was in October 1972. It wasn't much different during Linebacker II: the 555th did score 3 kills during that op, but all by old hands flying F-4Ds. Additional 'Mod552' F-4Es were subsequently deployed in theatre, but by the time they arrived, the war was de-facto over (at least for the USA). Bottom line: the 'target' of this thread - F-4E 68-0493 - had no LES, no TISEO, and no Mod552 cockpit at the time she scored her kill. Talking about that kill: the date mentioned above confused me a little bit, so started searching around various sources of reference. I think the actual date at which Capt R E Coe and 1st Lt O E Webb (from 34th TFS/388th TFW, tail-code 'JJ') were successful with this Phantom II was 5 October 1972. They used a single AIM-7E-2 to knock out a MiG-21. AFAIK, except with Sparrows, during that sortie she was armed with old AIM-9Bs (i.e. not even with more modern AIM-9Js!) and carried a single ALQ-87 pod in the front left Sparrow bay... Edited September 30, 2015 by Tom Cooper 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight_Flyer Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Tom, thanks for taking the time to post your reply It really has made sense of the research I have so far. Project Rivet Haste turned out to be an interesting read for me and I have another book to add to my collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luft46 Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 That would be absolutely WRONG ... absolutely!! Giorgio diplomatically gave some excellent "advice". Gene K And it's very much appreciated Bottom line: the 'target' of this thread - F-4E 68-0493 - had no LES, no TISEO, and no Mod552 cockpit at the time she scored her kill. Talking about that kill: the date mentioned above confused me a little bit, so started searching around various sources of reference. I think the actual date at which Capt R E Coe and 1st Lt O E Webb (from 34th TFS/388th TFW, tail-code 'JJ') were successful with this Phantom II was 5 October 1972. They used a single AIM-7E-2 to knock out a MiG-21. AFAIK, except with Sparrows, during that sortie she was armed with old AIM-9Bs (i.e. not even with more modern AIM-9Js!) and carried a single ALQ-87 pod in the front left Sparrow bay... Interesting, that's the third different date that I found for the kill. Not really relevant to the build though thankfully so not something i am going to put any more time into researching. She isn't being depicted on the day of her kill, if she was, i'd certainly put more time in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luft46 Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 On with the build... I took a little time out to make a bit of progress on a Fine Molds ME-410 and then my airbrush broke... disaster! But it has new been replaced with one of Harder & Steenbecks excellent Evolution CRPlus 2 in 1 jobbies, and very good it is to! A bit of progress so far... I've come to the conclusion that NOTHING fits on this kit, and after a whole 48hrs spent filling and sanding, i still have a few bits i need to go over again. Nozzles were given a base coat of AK Interactive Burnt Metal. Has anyone else used this before? only i think i have a duff jar, its very bitty and blocked the airbrish straight away. Might need to invest in another. Still, nozzles look okay and will get a coat of smoke and a light dusting of titanium next. And here is the nightmare that is the front end... Before sanding and filling.. After sanding and filling... I've still got a bit of filling and smoothing to do in a few places, notably around the gun which isn't a great fit, but its actually starting to look like a phantom now Made a start on the Missiles and drop tanks too so starting to come together quite nicely now. Needs a new canopy though, the original has a crack in it and is an awful fit, so will be ordering a Rob Taurus canopy from Hannants soon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper_city Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 This kit is definitely making you work for it. I cannot comment on the slats or TISEO as I don't know or have the time to research sorry. At the end of the day it is going to look like a great Phantom. It's good to hear you are getting on with the new airbrush. I bought the same one only a couple of weeks ago but still have not used it in anger. Next week hopefully will be it's first outing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cooper Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Don't want to become something like 'pain in the a...' now, but this photo caught my attention. Namely, the 'Sidewinders' here look like AIM-9Bs. Sorry but: if you're building this F-4E as a 'post-Vietnam-example', they're a definite 'no-no'. (...and back to 'curious observer' mode...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llking Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 build it the way you want to, your not building it to make anybody happy but yourself. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luft46 Posted October 2, 2015 Author Share Posted October 2, 2015 This kit is definitely making you work for it. I cannot comment on the slats or TISEO as I don't know or have the time to research sorry. At the end of the day it is going to look like a great Phantom. It's good to hear you are getting on with the new airbrush. I bought the same one only a couple of weeks ago but still have not used it in anger. Next week hopefully will be it's first outing. I don't think I've ever had such a poor fitting kit before, and i always thought Fujimi were supposedly up there with Hasegawa for fit and finish? Oh well, a bit of hard work never killed anyone did it. Probably. You'll love the airbrush too, just make sure the air head is done up nice and tight, i had a "Raining Primer" incident because it wasn't done up properly... messy! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luft46 Posted October 2, 2015 Author Share Posted October 2, 2015 Don't want to become something like 'pain in the a...' now, but this photo caught my attention. Namely, the 'Sidewinders' here look like AIM-9Bs. Sorry but: if you're building this F-4E as a 'post-Vietnam-example', they're a definite 'no-no'. (...and back to 'curious observer' mode...) Building it as a Post War example would be outside the boundaries of the build rules. This particular aircraft 'went home' before the end of the conflict and I'm depicting it as it returned home at the end of 73, where i could choose either AIM-9B or E missiles as both were in use. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene K Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 build it the way you want to, your not building it to make anybody happy but yourself. Gene K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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