Use of rocket projectiles in BPF

[Seahawk]

Sorry to unearth this old chestnut. Over in the "FAA Pacific Theatre Corsair Paint Question" thread ClaudioN linked to a very interesting Canadian biography of Don Sheppard, a Corsair pilot:

http://www.vintagewi...Bitter-End.aspx

Buried in the text is a mention of 1844 Sq (Hellcats) using rocket projectiles for the first time on 31 March 1945. I don't think this was new to me: I believe I have seen references to BPF RP expenditures in posts by Iang. It seems to me there are 2 options: either these were Hellcats fitted with British 60lb RPs complete with rails and massive blast plates (I have seen photos of these both in rear areas (eg S Africa, Australia) and with the East Indies Fleet, but never with the BPF) or these are late model Hellcats fitted with stubs for HVARs (introduced from BuNo 42185 so from somewhere about JV190-221 in the UK serial allocation). The former seems more likely to me. Quite apart from the received wisdom eg from David Hobbs that the BPF only used UK munitions, the pilots complain (as reported in the Sheppard article) about the reduced speed and rate of climb, which didn't improve even after the weapons had been expended: I don't imagine that HVAR stubs would have had that much effect on the aircraft's performance. On the other hand the UK RP installation was too bulky to overlook so I'm surprised it hasn't turned up in photographic evidence before now.

So: has anyone any photographic evidence of rocket-firing Hellcats in the BPF?

[Grey Beema]

I have done some reading around the BPF and the only references to RP carrying aircraft I have come across has been RP armed

Fireflys but it was not something I was searching for so good luck...

[tonyot]

I have seen zero zero US style rocket stubs fitted to late model Hellcat`s in the British East Indies Fleet (800 NAS had these in 1945 including C3B `Joy;, as per the old Airfix kit, as was C3M with the European rdl half converted to an EIF one, seen on Freightdog Decals Brits at Sea sheet,.... plus B9A-JZ807 from 898 NAS had them too). but don`t know whether they were actually used with rockets and I don`t recall seeing them on BPF Hellcat`s,.........but who knows for sure eh?

The British rails and the huge assembly which came with them was most certainly used by East Indies Hellcat`s (B8H of 896 NAS aboard HMS Empress was one) but again I`ve not seen it on BPF machines.

Like you,..I`d love to find out for sure!

Cheers

Tony

PS- I would love some kind aftermarket supplier to release the British style Hellcat rocket rails in resin,....in 1/72nd and 1/48th scales!

Edited September 4, 2015 by tonyot

[Fernando]

Hi, Tonyot,

According to "The Fleet Air Arm Handbook", by David Wragg, 898 Sqn was training with those when the war ended. Therefore, it seems there was some "operational" (if training can be considered "operational" -I guess it is) use of them; "in anger" is another thing.

Fernando

Edited September 7, 2015 by Fernando

[Seahawk]

No, 1844 Sq were definitely using them in action. Interestingly the pilots had had no practice in using them at all but still pronounced them "very excellent weapons" (all info from post-strike report in file ADM 199/595) . Article goes on to say that the BPF went on to use RP-firing Hellcats to mark targets: no source given for that info.

[iang]

During Operation Iceberg there were 315 RP sorties flown. 311 of these were by Fireflies. The remaining 4 sorties were flown by Hellcats of 1844 Squadron. All of these were attacks on barracks and shipping on Ishigaki Jima, and all used 60lb HE RPs. These were the only Hellcat RP sorties with the BPF:

1. S/Lt H Mockardanoe R.N.N. Hellcat II JW872 (fired in pairs), 30/3/45

2. S/Lt P.H. Mogredge R.N.V.R. Hellcat II JX762 (fired in fours, one hung up), 31/3/45

3. S/Lt W.R. Queree R.N.Z.N.V.R. Hellcat II JW881 (fired as full 8 rocket salvo), 31/3/45

4. Lt C.R. Thurston R.N.V.R. Hellcat II JW741 (fired in pairs) 31/3/45

As for codes, two I'm sure of, one I'm pretty certain of and the other I don't know.

JW872: W/1xx

JX762: W/135

JW881: W/144 (probably)

JW741: W/131

I don't have photos of any of these Hellcats

IG

Edited September 7, 2015 by iang

[tonyot]

Cheers Ian,

Great info. I have seen a photo of an overall Glossy Sea Blue Hellcat which was said to be aboard one of the BPF Escort Carriers from the Fleet Train which had the early style rocket rails fitted,.......however it still had European style markings applied so whether this was true or not I`m not sure.

For my bets I would say that the BPF Hellcat`s carrying out the rocket attacks would have been fitted with the older style rails.

Cheers

Tony

[Seahawk]

Think we all agree 60 lb RPs were always more likely than HVARs. Now Ian has told us for certain.

From my limited study of the subject the changeover from TSS to SBG seems to appear around the JX840-890 mark (JX841 definitely in SBG, JX878 poss but not def in in TSS). This makes it probable that the 4 aircraft Ian names were in TSS. I have seen in some archive film a SBG Hellcat with UK-style rocket rails in EIF markings on an unidentified escort carrier but no codes or serials were visible.

Ian: how does your statement re BPF Hellcat RP expenditure during ICEBERG square with an earlier post of yours (9/7/12) when you stated that JX747 137/W of 1839 Sq undertook an attack with 8 x 60lb RPs on 27/3/45? Does that date fall outside ICEBERG?

[iang]

JX747 is probably correct as I will have taken it from primary (Admiralty) sources. I took the figures on RP expenditure during Iceberg from the Admiralty post-war analysis (this is about 300 pages and has never been published). Their analysis was based on the Fair Flying Logs for all the carriers during Iceberg. Once I found the four 1844 aircraft reports in other Admiralty documents, I didn't bother to check the 1839 records.

So it looks like at least 316 sorties and 5 Hellcats RP sorties (or 315 but 310 with Fireflies). An interesting example of how seemingly authoritative primary sources can be in error, so thanks for reminding me about the 1839 squadron use of RP. I think I have all the 1839 Reports, so will check them.

As an aside, the fact that the Fair Flying Logs survived the War is an important piece of information. I have only seen two of these - one for 1842 Squadron and another for 810 Squadron. They are very detailed (much more so than most Squadron Diaries) and the FFLs would fully document all serials/codes of aircraft participating in Iceberg. along with crashes, repairs, diversions to other carriers etc.

Edited September 11, 2015 by iang