noelh Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Honestly Edgar please don't take that attitude. You posted some incontrovertible photos of Spitfire interior colours which prove Hu 78 is completely inaccurate for Spitfire interiors. Tamiya X 71 is also wrong although closer to reality. Please repost the photos of the real Spitfire seats. It's not a waste of time. Some of us are listening. I have three Eduard Spitfires to make. I need the reference. Plus finally you answered the question for me in relation to IAC Seafires based on my possession of a piece of a crashed aircraft. I do understand the frustrations of the Internet. People simply ignore facts. All you can do is put them out there and hope someone pays attention. Please repost those photos of the Spitfire seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFlint Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 I do understand the frustrations of the Internet. People simply ignore facts. All you can do is put them out there and hope someone pays attention. Please re-post those photos of the Spitfire seat. yeah.....and they seem to want to believe lies are the truth ; and that truth is lie ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Millman Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 You posted some incontrovertible photos of Spitfire interior colours which prove Hu 78 is completely inaccurate for Spitfire interiors. Wrong. Photos are never "incontrovertible" evidence of paint colour and you have ignored other evidence linked/quoted here, including analysis of actual Spitfire interior paint - see posts # 9 and # 18. You and P Flint think Ivor Ramsden and myself are lying about that? You think those paint measurements and calculations are just made up? Looks like it is me who is the one wasting his time here. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Millman Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 yeah.....and they seem to want to believe lies are the truth ; and that truth is lie ! Well, you won't want to be reading the "lies" at my blog then, especially the 30 August 2014 and 20 November 2012 postings about RAF Interior Green. No need to waste your time being a member. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noelh Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 I never said anyone was lying! As far as l know nobody is lying. Mostly I'm bemoaning Edgar's decision to absent himself from this discussion. A discussion I find interesting and enlightening. There was no implied criticism of your work or anyone else's merely a general comment on the way people on the Internet get hold of the wrong end of the stick and simply refuse to let go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Millman Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 I never said anyone was lying! As far as l know nobody is lying. Mostly I'm bemoaning Edgar's decision to absent himself from this discussion. A discussion I find interesting and enlightening. There was no implied criticism of your work or anyone else's merely a general comment on the way people on the Internet get hold of the wrong end of the stick and simply refuse to let go. Maybe you should have just said that then instead of cherry picking the thread to assert the "incontrovertible" evidence of colour photos whilst ignoring the other evidence. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomBigStu Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) hmm, seems my pot of humbrol 78 acrylic (recent screw top) is much lighter than then ones tested on here, if anything its lighter than the chips as well....will try and get a pic alongside a well known similar shade like sky for reference Edited September 13, 2015 by PhantomBigStu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFlint Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Well, you won't want to be reading the "lies" at my blog then, especially the 30 August 2014 and 20 November 2012 postings about RAF Interior Green. No need to waste your time being a member. Nick Nick , the stuff at your blogs (all of them) is nothing but the truth ! (I am a regular reader at 2 of them) the "they" that I was referring to are the people who are more interested in consensus of opinion rather than cold hard facts. the color science at your blogs are cold, hard facts. and your posts on RAF Interior Green also show that Testors Acryl RAF Interior Green is too dark and too green , also eliminating it from the quest to find a hobby paint that is correct for this color. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 <snip> your posts on RAF Interior Green also show that Testors Acryl RAF Interior Green is too dark and too green , also eliminating it from the quest to find a hobby paint that is correct for this color. Hmmm...Testors RAF Interior Green was what I used as a benchmark when I made a mix using Gunze acrylics, only I made the mix lighter and more grey. Maybe I was on to something and didn't know it. Cheers, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Honestly Edgar please don't take that attitude.It isn't a case of attitude; I have travelled all over this country, calling on various rebuilders, and I photographed those seats (and others) because of their different shades of green (and I've never been diagnosed as colour blind.) Now I'm told that, in spite of 50+ years experience in photography, my photos can't be trusted; however a photo of a civilian aircraft, built in 1932, crashed and written off in 1938, then spent 35 years in wind, snow, rain and sun on a Scottish hillside, is accepted, without question, as having a pristine example of a wartime airframe interior. At the moment I'm too unwell to bother with getting involved in this thread, any more, but, with other contentious threads over the last few weeks, it is becoming plain, to me, that, if one aspect of my research can't be trusted, then neither can the rest, so what is the point of continuing with what is becoming a complete waste of time? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsmekanik Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 It isn't a case of attitude; I have travelled all over this country, calling on various rebuilders, and I photographed those seats (and others) because of their different shades of green (and I've never been diagnosed as colour blind.)Now I'm told that, in spite of 50+ years experience in photography, my photos can't be trusted; however a photo of a civilian aircraft, built in 1932, crashed and written off in 1938, then spent 35 years in wind, snow, rain and sun on a Scottish hillside, is accepted, without question, as having a pristine example of a wartime airframe interior.At the moment I'm too unwell to bother with getting involved in this thread, any more, but, with other contentious threads over the last few weeks, it is becoming plain, to me, that, if one aspect of my research can't be trusted, then neither can the rest, so what is the point of continuing with what is becoming a complete waste of time? Well actually I've benefited rather a lot from your and Nick's efforts so I for one don't consider any of your time spent a waste unless of course you are looking for something of equal value in return in which case I'm sorry to report that I have nothing to offer and as such your input shall be greatly missed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 unless of course you are looking for something of equal value in returnNot my style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 (edited) Now I'm told that, in spite of 50+ years experience in photography, my photos can't be trusted; however a photo of a civilian aircraft, built in 1932, crashed and written off in 1938, then spent 35 years in wind, snow, rain and sun on a Scottish hillside, is accepted, without question, as having a pristine example of a wartime airframe interior. I've just re-read the thread to see if I had lost my powers of comprehension, there are about three posts about the Spartan, John states it 'might be in the ball park' every other posts makes the point that it's unlikely to be related to RAF pre-war and wartime green grey. NO-ONE says it has a pristine example of a wartime interior. It's an aside. As I see it, the thread has three concurrent themes - How do available model paints relate to the standards of Grey Green (In the main based on the colour chip in the RAF Museum reproduction chips) - What's the development/derivation of Grey Green from the pre war colour (introduced about 1935ish) to the current aircraft grey green in BS381C - What colour were Spitfires painted internally (Much evidence points to it NOT being Grey Green as based on the standards) I think Nick's blog of August last year tied up the second point, and made a pretty good stab at the third. At the moment I'm too unwell to bother with getting involved in this thread, any more, but, with other contentious threads over the last few weeks, it is becoming plain, to me, that, if one aspect of my research can't be trusted, then neither can the rest, so what is the point of continuing with what is becoming a complete waste of time? Please don't, your contributions are much valued. The picture is still incomplete and each piece of the jigsaw helps confirm or dismiss the assumptions we have to make to fill the gaps. Edited September 14, 2015 by Dave Fleming 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr T Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 I,for one, do not consider the tremendous input that Edgar and Nick have put into this site as a waste of time and effort. As someone who has had an interest in colours and markings for the last 40 odd years what I have learnt on this site has been invaluable. Because of career and later health issues I would never have been to find the information that Edgar has bought forward. I struggle to understand it appears that some modellers seem to find it so hard to accept that the starting point for any discussions as to colours and markings has to be what was specified by the user or manufacturer. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikB Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Nick , the stuff at your blogs (all of them) is nothing but the truth ! (I am a regular reader at 2 of them) the "they" that I was referring to are the people who are more interested in consensus of opinion rather than cold hard facts. the color science at your blogs are cold, hard facts. and your posts on RAF Interior Green also show that Testors Acryl RAF Interior Green is too dark and too green , also eliminating it from the quest to find a hobby paint that is correct for this color. Ah! Which are they? I only know of the "Aviation of Japan"-blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Ah! Which are they? I only know of the "Aviation of Japan"-blog. The only other one I know of is "American Aircraft for the RAF" (invitation only): http://amair4raf.blogspot.com/ Send Nick a PM and he can invite you. Cheers, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikB Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Ah! Thanks, Bill! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazinio Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Not that it helps much but around 30 years ago I visited a Wellington wreck near the Conwy falls in North Wales. The one thing I remember most is the colour of the interior parts and I've always found Humbrol 78 to be a good match to my memory of the wreck, although of course the weather will have affected it somewhat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 I find that the weather affects MY memory, too bob 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFlint Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Nick also did a SEAC blog....but come to think of it I think that one is not online anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazinio Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I find that the weather affects MY memory, too bob Ba-dum tish! Mind you come to think of it there was mist and light rain!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VH-USB Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 As far as I'm aware, and I see Dave has already commented on this, G-ACYK is unrestored and remains as it was when it was recovered in 1973. What it could, possibly, be is a surviving if somewhat weathered example of a pre-War proprietary grey green finish available to and used by the British aviation industry and as such is surely of some interest to this thread. Nor, for that matter, do I think that either civillian aircraft or BS381c:283 are beyond its scope. John Hi John, I have an original Titanine UK civil color chip folder from 1935 and it contains a color sample of a 'Grey Green'. It looks much like the WW2 RAF cockpit color. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VH-USB Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Hi John, A scan I provided of my 1935 Titanine color chart, and which shows their 'Grey Green' shade, can be found in this Max Decal article: http://www.maxdecals.com/NotesonIrishAirCorpscoloursandmarkingsPart1.pdf Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony in NZ Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Hi guys, I have only skimmed over this thread, but if it is of interest I am rebuilding an ex RAF Auster T7 WE552 to fly. I have had to use many New Old Stock parts as the originals were unfit for airworthy and one thing that struck me when I was trying to match the paint was "what a nightmare!" Most of the parts I had were ex Auster Spares and had been wrapped up and tagged from manufacture, some just in boxes etc. But one thing that struck/frustrated me was that it was difficult to find a definitive colour consistency to get the paint techs to match. By the way Auster has their own shade of green, not the usual RAF interior green we are talking about here. There were different shades, different finishes, some were dead flat whilst others were semi-gloss. In the end I had to settle on something I was happy was a fair representation of the colour. What I have done during the rebuild is not be worried about uniform finishes either. I have deliberately made sure I got the same effect on my aircraft. So some parts are more matte that others and I am really happy with the effect it has given me. Not overly noticeable initially but you would see it if I pointed it out. I think it is the modeller AMS in me that! Anyway the point of this is to say that maybe there will never be a definitive answer? As Edgar rightly says though. I would not be matching colours of bits of plane on a mountainside, I suspect some of these early paints weren't overly stable either? I don't know if this helps, it is just my personal observations Cheers Anthony 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) You might be surprised, having examined a few wrecks on Scottish mountainsides over the years, if not directly exposed, some colours do hold up pretty well. I've mentioned the Hudson on Ben Lui, both the grey green and Dark Earth retain colours close to the spec. Blues fade very qucikly. Even on exposed areas, yellows tend to retain their colour while all else has faded away. As an aside, I've discovered just today that Grey Green (the BS 381C shade) is still specified on the internals of some UK aircraft in service today I would not be matching colours of bits of plane on a mountainside, I suspect some of these early paints weren't overly stable either? Edited September 17, 2015 by Dave Fleming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now