Duncan B Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Opening a new can of worms today with a question for Luftwaffe modellers. What paint brand do you use for RLM78? I have various brands attempts at RLM78 but none of them seem to get close to the paint chips that I have for that colour (Merrick's and Eagle Editions). I have the following versions of RLM78: Polyscale, Vallejo's Model Air, Mr Color, Mr Hobby, Xtracrylix, Hataki, AK Interactive. They are all either too purple, too dark or basically just wrong so what other recommendations do we have out there please? Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfqweofekwpeweiop4 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Vallejo and I don't care! I use Vallejo for all Luftwaffe builds, they look close enough to satisfy me. thanks Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted August 17, 2015 Author Share Posted August 17, 2015 I've carried out a little test with all the various Brands that I have and for once the Vallejo actually is about as close as any of my paints get but it is still too purple and too dark, not the bright, light blue of the colour chips. The Hataki paint looks quite close but also looks very watery and I'm not sure it'll actually cover anything (apparently a common complaint with this brand). Maybe there is a non RLM colour that someone uses that is actually a closer match than the ones I have? Humbrol Powder Blue for instance? Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasermonkey Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I like the White Ensign Colourcoats representation. That, and the old Humbrol Authentic! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbhawkin Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) RLM Model Master Floquil Mr.Color Humbrol Revell Tamiya WEM XtraColor PollyScale Mr.Hobby Vallejo XtraCrylix 78Nominal 20874788 118 145' ACLW17 X214 F505268’ H417 XA1214 Edited August 17, 2015 by pbhawkin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Heath Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Why not try mixing your own version to match the colour chip (using your favourite Mr Color paints of course)? Mixing your own colours is not that difficult, you just need a clean, empty pot and a few suitable base colours to work with. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronan71 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I have mostly Tamiya paints, and I think XF23 light blue is the closest I have. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I thought (was told?) that the Akan range was closest to RLM colours? I bought a set but have still yet to use them in anger. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted August 18, 2015 Author Share Posted August 18, 2015 Ronan, I'll have a look and see if I have XF23, cheers. Nigel, the problem with mixing paints for me would be repeatability further on down the road. It would wind me up if I couldn't match it again later on but it is an option. Duncan B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
politicni komisar Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Before that I used in WEM colocoats I am convinced . but last year use : http://mrpaint.sk/eshop/farby/lietadla/Luftwaffe?product_id=119 and bodes well for the artefact in my collection (Bf-109F) brought from Libya in the eighties. P.k 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted August 21, 2015 Author Share Posted August 21, 2015 Having sprayed Gunze's version of RLM65 I've found that it is actually a great match for RLM78, it's certainly wrong for 65 anyway! I wonder if they got their research papers or recipes mixed up? So the search for a decent match to RLM65 is now underway. Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Moore Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 I use MM almost exclusively. Humbrol is not my favorite paint, and I tossed out all my Tamiya paint except for the clear stuff. Oh..I still have two or three bottles of Floquil lacquer in Japanese colors. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seawinder Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 As a mainly enamel user, I've got Model Master and Gunze Mr. Color renditions of RLM 78 in my stash. (WEM paints have been problematic to obtain here in the USA.) The MM is a very close match to, but just a tad darker than, the chip in the Merrick & Hitchcock Monogram Guide. The Mr. Color is also quite close, but a bit lighter. Neither paint is anywhere close to the 78 chip in the Eagle Editions reproduction of the Luftwaffe Farbtontafel 1938-45, which is not a greenish blue but rather a light purplish blue similar to RAF Azure Blue. I'd be interested in anyone's comments vis-a-vis the current thinking on those interpretations. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbhawkin Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 (edited) Duncan here is a chart I did with the common hobby paints available (to me) and the RLM paint chips from the Merrick book on Luftwaffe Camouflage: http://www.petersplanes.com/RLM%20comparison%20chart2.jpg and http://www.petersplanes.com/RLM%20comparison%20chart1.jpg You can judge for yourself what is closest or best for yourself. Edited August 21, 2015 by pbhawkin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Hi Peter, Out of interest I don't recognise any of the paint codes for the samples in the WEM column although I certainly recognise a lot of the colours. Are the 2 digit numbers just the ACLW (or ACLE) codes with the letters dropped? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbhawkin Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Hi the WEM numbers (2 digit) are from their ACLW codes on the tin. So ACLW20 is RLM82. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted August 22, 2015 Author Share Posted August 22, 2015 Thanks again for your paint chart Peter, I have used it many times in conjunction with my various paint chips. as you graphically show the RLM 78 and RLM 65 colours interpretations cover quite a range of tones, even the paint chips disagree sometimes. I think that Mr Color/Hobby's RLM65 is too dark when sprayed with any depth onto a model but comparing it with the RLM78 chips I have it is actually a good match for that. Looking at my built up models painted in the Gunze paints I can see that the RLM65 isn't right. I'll post a picture of the offending model compared to a paint chip later. Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted August 22, 2015 Author Share Posted August 22, 2015 As promised, here are the results of my spraying of Mr Color RLM65. A closer match to Merrick's RLM78 I'd say. The photos were taken with my phone in natural lighting so the quality isn't the best but good enough to get the drift. Firstly compare to the RLM65 chip, this is what it was supposed to come out like. and compared to the RLM78 chip So I think that I've answered my own original question about what to use for RLM78 but now have an issue with RLM65. I've had to swap the colour scheme that I was going to finish this model off as but that isn't really an issue. Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seawinder Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 (edited) Duncan, you're basing your comparison apparently on only one reference -- Merrick/Hiroff (Classic 2004), but there's a lot of disagreement among the various sources. To say your RLM 65 is "wrong" is probably overstating it. Rather, it doesn't match one reference, but that reference itself doesn't match a number of other reputable sources. It's actually a good match for the 1998 Eagle Editions set of chips prepared from relic samples by Warnecke & Böhm, a producer of Luftwaffe paints during the war. You might be interested in this link: http://www.cybermodeler.com/color/rlm_comp2.shtml It compares (using computer generated color samples) the chips found in Merrick & Hitchcock (1980), the Eagle Editions Luftwaffe Color Chart (1998), Merrick/Hiroff (2004) and Ullman (2008). The comparison is useful in showing qualitative variations, but not actual colors. One thing that leaps out at me (and to which I alluded in my post above) is the large variance of the Eagle Editions rendition of RLM 78 to the other three. It also shows that the Merrick/Hiroff rendition of RLM 65 is distinctly lighter/bluer (and less greenish) than any of the other three. This thread is also worth checking out: http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/thread/1272631435/Most+respected+Luftwaffe+RLM+paint-chip+reference- In it, a ways down, Jerry Crandall of Eagle Editions describes how the Luftwaffe Color Chart was produced. Edited August 22, 2015 by Seawinder 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbhawkin Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) And to add to your search Duncan here is another comparison chart: http://www.rlm.at/cont/archiv01_e.htm Or you could just order your paint from Mr Kiroff in Germany who is the one who made the colour chips for Merrick's book. His company makes the paint from the original company paint records by the manufacturer. His company makes paint for a lot of the flying 1:1 Luftwaffe aircraft that are now flying. http://www.kiroff.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=56&Itemid=61Kirol Flieglack 1720 is the Model paint. You can contact him here: Mr. Kiroff + 49- (0 ) -911-748066 Edited August 23, 2015 by pbhawkin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted August 23, 2015 Author Share Posted August 23, 2015 Duncan, you're basing your comparison apparently on only one reference -- Merrick/Hiroff (Classic 2004), but there's a lot of disagreement among the various sources. To say your RLM 65 is "wrong" is probably overstating it. Rather, it doesn't match one reference, but that reference itself doesn't match a number of other reputable sources. It's actually a good match for the 1998 Eagle Editions set of chips prepared from relic samples by Warnecke & Böhm, a producer of Luftwaffe paints during the war. You might be interested in this link: http://www.cybermodeler.com/color/rlm_comp2.shtml It compares (using computer generated color samples) the chips found in Merrick & Hitchcock (1980), the Eagle Editions Luftwaffe Color Chart (1998), Merrick/Hiroff (2004) and Ullman (2008). The comparison is useful in showing qualitative variations, but not actual colors. One thing that leaps out at me (and to which I alluded in my post above) is the large variance of the Eagle Editions rendition of RLM 78 to the other three. It also shows that the Merrick/Hiroff rendition of RLM 65 is distinctly lighter/bluer (and less greenish) than any of the other three. This thread is also worth checking out: http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/thread/1272631435/Most+respected+Luftwaffe+RLM+paint-chip+reference- In it, a ways down, Jerry Crandall of Eagle Editions describes how the Luftwaffe Color Chart was produced. The colour chart I used in my photo comparison was from the Merrick/Kirroff book but I also have the Eagle Editions chart too. The links are very useful and the comments from Jerry Crandall and others including Lynn ( I presume Ritger?) highlight how difficult it is to be 100% sure about these 70 year old colours. One poster hit the nail on the head for me when he said that if it looks right then go with it. Duncan B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbhawkin Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Exactly Duncan. Go with what you like. Look forward to seeing the completed build. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidelvy Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 My understanding is that paint colours varied from the standards. If so then it's a matter of you pays your money and you makes your choice. (Blue touch paper lit, he now retires...) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Heath Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Or indeed bursts into flames... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidelvy Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Oh. Bugger! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now