Folkbox1 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 As you may have seen below I'm planning to do a captured 190 flow by Captain Eric "Winkle" Brown (for, or perhaps not, for a possible GB). I've got the Decals from H Model for the correct plane and it shows that it was painted in dark green and dark grey upper surfaces and trainer yellow on the undersides. My question is this: The decals include lots of stencils in German. If the plane had been repainted in an RAF scheme would these have been painted over and replaced (in German), painted around leaving little patches of German camo and stencils, painted over and replaced (in English) or just painted over? All the schemes on the sheet are for repainted planes so I'm guessing they think they were left on or repainted in German but, on the face of it, that would seem unlikely to me. It's sheet HMD72025. Thanks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beard Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) I doubt that many ground crew had enough knowledge of German to make sense of the stencils so, in my opinion, they would have been painted over. If they were replaced by English versions it would have required some-one to translate them, while not impossible I think the need to test the aircraft would have overidden that. Edited July 29, 2015 by Beard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) Note the decals instructions are wrong , it was Dark earth and Dark Green, not grey as for the stencils, I think some are still visible, but the bulk might be for the subject in the original german scehe Edited July 29, 2015 by Dave Fleming 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Folkbox1 Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 Cheers Dave, that's a good bit of info. I will update my painting guide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewerjerry Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I doubt that many ground crew had enough knowledge of German to make sense of the stencils so, in my opinion, they would have been painted over. If they were replaced by English versions it would have required some-one to translate them, while not impossible I think the need to test the aircraft would have overidden that. Hi The flight that operated it was a special unit, so the groundcrew would have probably needed at least a basic knowledge of german to be able to service / repair it and the other german aircraft with the unit So there might be a small possibility some essential markings were retained, it would ensure only suitably knowledged groundcrew worked on the aircraft. cheers jerry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Folkbox1 Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share Posted July 30, 2015 Hi The flight that operated it was a special unit, so the groundcrew would have probably needed at least a basic knowledge of german to be able to service / repair it and the other german aircraft with the unit So there might be a small possibility some essential markings were retained, it would ensure only suitably knowledged groundcrew worked on the aircraft. cheers jerry good point Jerry Darren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewerjerry Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) hi PM me your e mail, i found some photos on the old lemb that shows at least some of the original stencils were still there on original paint patches, to me the writing looks german Also there is some odd paint work over the fuselage crosses Opps just noticed photos are of MP 499, but it shows maybe what they typically did . Found some of PE882, not as clear as the above mentioned photos, but it shows patches in the same areas Cheers Jerry Edited July 30, 2015 by brewerjerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritJet Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Eric Brown is fluent in German and many others responsible for testing would have been so the stencils may have been painted around. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Folkbox1 Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share Posted July 30, 2015 hi PM me your e mail, i found some photos on the old lemb that shows at least some of the original stencils were still there on original paint patches, to me the writing looks german Also there is some odd paint work over the fuselage crosses Opps just noticed photos are of MP 499, but it shows maybe what they typically did . Found some of PE882, not as clear as the above mentioned photos, but it shows patches in the same areas Cheers Jerry PM sent darren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Folkbox1 Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share Posted July 30, 2015 Jerry, just looked and the decal sheet has MP499 on it too. Shows it as dark green and dark grey so not sure if they've got that wrong like on PE882. Doesn't show any odd paint work on fuselage crosses either. Could they have been repainted later? Darren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewerjerry Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) Hi until i can send them here are a couple of links although they are not very good quality pls ignore my previous comment about odd paint work, seems i was tired, at the end of a long shift cheers jerry http://farm8.static.flickr.com/7179/6903618357_7540141fb8_z.jpg http://farm8.static.flickr.com/7043/6903618847_ddf18d7ac9_z.jpg http://s6.photobucket.com/user/mikermurphy/media/Captured%20German%20aircraft/RAFFW190cp.jpg.html Edited July 30, 2015 by brewerjerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) I'm pretty certain the early Fw190s were in Dark Earth/Dark Green, including MP499. Pictures of it alongside other RAF fighters show it to be a different shade. It was important to keep the styencils where possible as they highlighted something (Look at the Me163 Eric Brown flew as a glider for example) Edited July 31, 2015 by Dave Fleming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewerjerry Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Hi Yeah the main opinion i have seen is all the early captured a/c aircraft were DE/DG. but logic seems to say the later captured aircraft would have been in the later scheme, although there seems to be two views of thought in print & on the web cheers jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 The colour pics that exist show a green/brown Fw alongside a grey/green Bf109. having examined some other photos, it's clear the stencils were often left on in blocks of original colour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k5054nz Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 I have no photos or information to assist but I'm very keen to see your build! A very cool idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Starmer Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 As I understand the RAF system, captured aircraft were repainted in the Day Flying scheme of DE/DG with yellow undersurfaces. They came in the same catagory as trainers and communications aircraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewerjerry Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Hi but the 'grey area' is the following issued 8 oct 1942 for misc units A664/42 Appd 1 b section 7 , prototype, experimental and aircraft attached to experimental establishments TLS, TSS or DFS unfortunately it gives three options for after oct 42, wether they were used or not i dont know. cheers jerru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Hope I get the abbreviations right, so...if I got it right, the switch away from TLS (which was designed to give good camouflage on and over home soil) was implemented when the RAF went on the offensive, to effect better protection over sea areas. This would not seem to apply to captured aircraft, which hardly would have been flown over the sea in areas with enemy fighter activity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 It's slightly complicated because whilst the Fws seem to have reamined DE/DG, the later 109s were DG/OG (RN228, VX101 and probably NN644), and the 110 appears to have been repainted in the Day fighter scheme as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Folkbox1 Posted August 6, 2015 Author Share Posted August 6, 2015 A very interesting discussion. There's a really lovely picture of Winkle Brown sitting in this aircraft, without flying helmet, in the Production Line to Front Line Osprey book on the Fw190. In black and white so not a definitve answer to the question of dark earth or ocean grey but does appear to show some more stencils on patches of the German camo. Darren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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