Boston Mk.V Paint Scheme

[Navy Bird]

Hi mates,

Were there any Douglas Boston Mk.V aircraft in Commonwealth schemes that were not Olive Drab over Neutral Gray? I have the Revell rebox of the MPM/Special Hobby kit, and the RAF markings are in that horrid paint scheme as applied in the States. Surely there must have been some in proper camouflage!

Cheers,

Bill

[Giorgio N]

To the best of my knowledge the later Boston variants served in the RAF in the US supplied scheme, not sure you'll find any in any other scheme

[Graham Boak]

There is still the long-standing dispute as to whether greens other than OD42 were ever used on Bostons and Mitchells, but I'm sure that's not what you are looking for. For a long time there has been representation of at least one late Boston in green and grey uppersurfaces, memory says in the French unit. Possibly backing this, Neil Robinson has gone into print with the recollections of one veteran that 2 TAF Bombers had green and grey uppersurfaces late in the war. However, Mosquitos were 2 TAF bombers that certainly did have green and grey uppersurfaces, and no photo has ever surfaced showing contrasting camouflage colours on 2 TAF's Bostons and Mitchells.

One of those Holy Grail photos...

[tonyot]

Hiya Bill,

Towards the Italian campaign many RAF & USAAF light bomber units switched over to night intruder ops in order to disrupt soft skinned German traffic supplying the front and the camouflaged pontoon bridges which were strung across rivers like the Po during the night.

Some USAAF B-26 Invaders were painted overall black and the RAF tried this out too. I have definitely seen an overall black Baltimore and another photo in an old Air Pictorial magazine depicts a 13 Sqn RAF Boston Mk.IV, which `might' be overall black too and I`m currently modelling it! The serial (if worn) cannot be seen but it wears the code `J' on the nose and rear fuselage along with the B Flight pennant on the fin. The colour scheme is certainly much darker than normal OD/NG, the photo is captioned as being an all black Boston and the characteristic red and yellow quartered main wheel covers have been overpainted in a very dark colour. There is a lighter area on the engine nacelle below the wing which could be a trace of Neutral Grey but but this could also be mud or exhaust gas which has been partially wiped away at the extreme rear? It almost looks as if the tip of the fin and rudder are still finished in Olive Drab where the painters could not reach,.....something which I`ve seen on middle east based Wellington`s too!

Anyway here is the photo if it helps and you can make your own mind up about the scheme;

and my model so far;

The RAF units flying Boston IV`s in the Med had some really interesting markings with different coloured codes applied to the fin using blue or red with white outlines and at least one post war one aircraft was stripped back to overall bare metal and nicknamed the Silver Bullet! It was used in a comms role and carried a small flag marking for each country that it visited on the nose! I have a piccy of this silver one if you are interested but it might take a while to dig it out and find the magazine that it is in.,

Cheers

Tony

PS- The caption refers to the use of the Boston in Greece, not Italy! The article is about the RAF in Greece.

Edited July 28, 2015 by tonyot

[Dave Fleming]

Brain not working - what's the difference between a mk IV (G) and mk V (J)

[Giorgio N]

Brain not working - what's the difference between a mk IV (G) and mk V (J)

The G has a solid nose with guns, the J has a clear nose with a bomb aimer

However the Mk.IV is the equivalent of the J while the Mk.V is the equivalent of the A-20K. These variants should only differ in the engines, all have a clear nose

[tempestfan]

G = solid nose

The demarcation of the lighter panel looks to be too straight (sort of) for exhaust discolouration/burn; besides, the tip of the nacell looks lighter, too. Is this from one of the AvNews/SMI Squadron features ? Possibly the original print would yield a clearer view.

[tonyot]

G = solid nose

The demarcation of the lighter panel looks to be too straight (sort of) for exhaust discolouration/burn; besides, the tip of the nacell looks lighter, too. Is this from one of the AvNews/SMI Squadron features ? Possibly the original print would yield a clearer view.

No doubt the original print would yield a better view but this is all I have!

[Navy Bird]

Thanks, mates. The kit I have (MPM re-pop) is labelled as a Mk.V (A-20J). So the Boston IV (J) and Boston V (K) only differ in engines? I guess Revell labelled it that way due to their choice of markings supplied with the kit, a Mk.V of RAF No. 13 Squadron, No. 232 Air Wing, Italy 1944 and A-20J of USAAF, 646th Bomb Squadron, 410th Bomb Group, 9th Air Force, Gosfield, England 1944.

This means I can build either a IV or V from the kit, so this expands the field of potential markings. Back to Hannant's search engine...

Tony's black version is intriguing. Whose kit is that? It doesn't look the MPM kit. That all metal bird Tony describes sounds pretty cool, too, and quite unusual. And believe it or not, I prefer making a NMF over all black (or white - ugh!).

Graham - thanks for that. If I find that Holy Grail photo, I'll let you know!

Cheers,

Bill

[Giorgio N]

A-20Js had the Wright R2600-23, A-20Ks had the R2600-29, this should be the only difference

RAF serial numbers for the two variants were:

BZ400-568 for the Mk.IV

BZ580-669 for the Mk.V

The RAF did not receive the solid nose G. A number of these however served with the RAAF in the pacific. The Soviet Union also used a number of A-20J/K

[tonyot]

Hiya Bill,

The all black Boston that I`m currently building is the old Matchbox kit but I`m also building the Special Hobby kit alongside and it will probably be the 13 Sqn one which I researched for one of the Xtradecal `Med Twins' sheet`s. I do intend to do the `Silver Bullet' too and the Matchbox model was supposed to depict this aircraft until I saw the `possibly black' aircraft. When I find the pic I`ll copy it and PM you a copy,

As Giorgio has kindly added, the Boston Mk.IV & V were basically the same apart from the variant of engine used.

Cheers

Tonyl

Edited July 28, 2015 by tonyot

[Pat C]

The all black Boston that I`m currently building is the old Matchbox

Tony - you will do it better justice that I, but you may be interested in my build of the Matchbox Boston that I did on another website an abolute age ago.

http://modelingmadness.com/review/allies/us/cautheryboston.htm

Bill

have a look at this link - on the right hand side is a pic of what looks to be a Boston IV (or V) sporting D-Day stripes which would at least break up the monotony of an OD/ NG scheme. The pic looks a bit out of context as the other aircraft look to be Boston IIIs. Shame the aircraft code or serial is not discernable.

http://redtears.free.fr/88%20squadron,%20mission%20au%20dessus%20de%20boulogne%20ang.htm

Pat

[tonyot]

Thats a nice Boston Pat and the 88 Sqn Mk.IV/V with full invasion stripes on the fuselage is interesting, like you say it isn`t the best photo though for modelling purposes.

I sanded the raised panel lines from my Matchbox Boston and rescribed some of them and it makes a lot of difference.

Cheers

Tony

[Giorgio N]

I remember fondly the Matchbox A-20 kit, it was one of my favourite when I was a kid and watching Pat's completed model and Tony's in progress brings back many good memories ! Well done to both with what is not really a good kit by today's standards.

Unfortunately modellers interested in this aircraft don't have many choices: the Matchbox kit not only is simplified but suffers from several accuracy issues, most glaring the oversized nacelles. The MPM/Revell kit is very nice in the box but at the same time it's not the easiest to build (euphemism here...)

[Navy Bird]

Pat - your model looks good! The wavy green edges break up the OD nicely, that's the first I've seen of that. Now if I can find an aircraft with those wavy green edges plus invasion stripes - that will probably be enough for me to get around my irrational dislike of OD over NG.

Giorgio - I love it when seeing an old kit brings back memories like that. Regarding the MPM kit, it seems the reviews are all over the map. Some say it falls together, others had a lot of difficulty with the canopy and nacelles. Have you built it? I think my only experience with an MPM dual engine WWII aircraft was the Beaufort I built a few months ago. That fell together, other than the PE which was maximum fiddly.

I'll keep searching for photos of Bostons (either IV or V) and if I find anything that interests me I'll post it here. I'm retired now - so every day is Saturday! Oops, bad analogy, I never had any time on Saturday for modelling - too many chores!

Cheers,

Bill

[Graham Boak]

I've both the Boston and the Beaufort unbuilt, but from looking at them (and considering a bit, and playing a bit) I'd suggest that the Beaufort is the more difficult. If you've done the Beaufort already I don't think you'll have too much trouble with the Boston. I do feel that many of the critics of MPM and similar short-run kits are simply not accustomed to checking parts for fit before dashing through the assemblies. They combine that with rather a rose-tinted view of mainstream kits, particularly those of more distant decades.

For photos of late-war Bostons look for the four books on 2nd TAF written by Chris Shores and Geoff Thomas. Try the library if cash is short. I don't think the Medium Green edges lasted long enough for the Mk.IV/V. However one of the joys of the internet is that by making a statement like that someone will pop up to prove me wrong. The stronger and more definite the statement, the quicker the response... OK, no 2 TAF Boston EVER had the medium Green blotching. Wait for it.

[Troy Smith]

Pat - your model looks good! The wavy green edges break up the OD nicely, that's the first I've seen of that. Now if I can find an aircraft with those wavy green edges plus invasion stripes - that will probably be enough for me to get around my irrational dislike of OD over NG.

Hi Bill

use of Medium Green was common on the Boston, being factory applied.

As I was typing, Graham posted, and he maybe right about the J/K not having the blotching.

though if you look at this rudder that look Medium Green blotching.

Boston for the VVS in US

note Medium Green blotching.

regarding the D-Day stripes in the link, later in 1944 2 TAF bombers reinstated full fuselage stripes only, as a quick recognition feature.

see http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234926836-b-25-in-raf/#entry1547852

as an aside the main user of the Boston was the VVS!

http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1007.0

The USAAF used some black A-20Js as well

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:645th_Bombardment_Squadron_-_A-20_Havoc.jpg

Note the extensive exhaust staining which may help with the photo Tony posted.

And, note rudder, with Medium Green blotches, note the fairly regular application in both of the USAAF A-20 J's compared with the colour factory shot.

[Graham Boak]

Quick enough, but not yet the coconut. I've taken the opportunity of flicking through the four 2 TAF volumes, and although there aren't many pictures of Bostons none of them show any sign of blotching. That includes Mk.IIIAs as early as Operation Starkey. There's no blotching on the Mitchells in this scheme, nor visible on the one RAF Dakota I found. If the USAAF and VVS ones did have this blotching, this does make me wonder about claims that the RAF bombers were repainted at some stage. (But if so why not standard RAF patterns?)

"Helen" may have a replacement earlier rudder, but as "Irene" is the same perhaps they didn't repaint it for aerodynamic balancing reasons.

[brewerjerry]

Hi

I checked my AP but it is dated may 42, and the relevant section only covers the painting of the III's.

cheers

jerry

[Navy Bird]

Thanks, mates! I appreciate you taking the time to help research this matter. I wonder if some of the splotches we see in photos of late mark Bostons (other than replacement rudders, etc.) are just Olive Drab paint re-work. We have a C-47 at the local museum that has several different shades of OD on it, and it's all from weathering, fading, and repair with new paint.

Cheers,

Bill

[Dave Fleming]

Brain fade I meant J and K.....

I though there was a difference in the nose glazing

Edited July 29, 2015 by Dave Fleming

[Pat C]

Possibly I was more tolerant of guesswork when I built my Boston but I think I went from pics of BZ403 which can also be found on the net which looked to show the wavy paint on the tail and wings (there is a pic of it flying with bombs under the wings).

Pat

[Graham Boak]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/hawk914/520409852/in/pool-bomber_command found via Google

This aircraft appears to have a lighter rudder, not untypical of fabric covered surfaces, with some fresh paint around the hinges and the trim tab. However this does not appear in the same pattern as seen on US/VVS aircraft with the Medium Green blotches. The US serial has been over-painted, as has the area around the fuselage roundel. There does also seem to have been a darker tone to the leading edge of the fin. I see no clear signs of an RAF-style camouflage - but then I couldn't find the flying photo.

https://www.flickr.com/groups/a20/pool/15491569@N00/ This has a lot of A-20 photos, if you like that sort of thing.

[Pat C]

Graham - the pic I am thinking of is towards the bottom of this page. I have it in a book where is is a bit clearer. You can just make out there appears to be a darker squiggle around the edge of the fin and it looks like there are darker waves on the wing. I think that was enough for me to give my Boston Medium Green blotches but fully acknowledge its not terribly conclusive!!

Pat

http://www.thegermanarmy.org/aviones/bombarderos/boston.html

[Graham Boak]

I think the dark areas on the wing are staining from the engines and people working on the wings, with some repainting in the area of the roundel on the starboard wing. Which is sadly the wrong wing to be overpainting the US star-and-bar! It is certainly a mucky aircraft which is confusing matters.