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Can the Aeroclub 1:48 Hawker Demon be converted to a Hawker Hind?


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I am interested in the Hawker Hart family, and want to build a Hawker Hind in 1/48 scale. The Hawker Demon appears to be the only kit close enough to the Hind for a conversion--and so I am gathering photos and plans. Before I go further, I was wondering if anyone has attempted this conversion, and also, can it be done without a major cutting and sanding of the airframe? Externally, the Hind and Demon appear similar in outline.

Thank you for any guidance and/or suggestions for reference material.

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It should be a fairly easy conversion. The main difference, I believe, was that the Demon featured fixed guns on both sides, whereas the Hind had one only on the port side, I believe. Also, early Demons had the tail skid, whereas all Hinds had the tail wheel. John Aero, who actually created the kit, will hopefully be along to fill you in on all the minor differences. As far as reference materials go, the Mushroom Publications book on the Hart Family appears to be a good one (I have it). Good luck on the conversion - I'm a big fan of the Hart Family also!

Regards,

Jason

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Check the exhausts. Many Hinds had the ones with the odd "rams horn" appearance. The Hind will also have the sliding ventral panel for bomb-aiming, which I suspect is absent on the Demon.

Demons also have a lowered rear fuselage top, but I don't think that this was realised when John did his 1/48th kit, which suits you for your conversion.

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The Aeroclub 1/48th model has the Rams horn exhausts, and also the different size wheels too. You'll need some bomb carriers for under the wings though (would those from a Tamiya Swordfish do?)

I've got a second Demon in the stash, planned as a turret one. If this is of use, here's the link to my first Demon build

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234917056-hawker-demon-finished-pics-in-rfi/

Cheers Jonners

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The Hind had small windows in the fuselage below the pilot's cockpit, just above the lower wing, to let light into the bomb aiming position. I don't believe they were present on RAF Demons, though they were on Australian ones.

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My Demon is correct in that the rear deck is lower than the Hind which is 3" higher than the Demon. I used a Hawker drawing for my fuselage. It was a discussion on this forum with Graham Boak which made me overlay some Hawker based drawings on the light board which showed up the differences between the top decks. However I have finished a new Hind fuselage pattern with alternative Audax/Hart/Hind/trainer pilot/gunner positions and I hope to have that for Telford. I just need to make the moulds. If you fair in the stbd gun trough and raise the rear decking by a scale 3" It can be modified. The wheels and exhausts are in the kit.

John

Edited

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I already have a Demon, plus a second one to be made into a Hind, although the heads-up about raising the rear deck is very useful.

Nevertheless . . .

I would definitely want a Hart and an Audax!

P.S. How difficult would it be to get a Hardy from any of the above?

Edited by Welkin
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  • 2 weeks later...

There is really very little difference in the basic airframes of all the two seat Hawker Hart derivatives. With the exception of the Osprey (folding wings and larger fin/rudder), Hector (top wing and engine and struts), the Hart Trainer (top wing sweep) and Demon (lowered rear decking and Stbd extra gun) All the others have minor variations of panel lines, crew decking, wheels, exhausts and equipment. I intend to put on only the most important panel lines so that minor variations can be added by the modeller.

The high ring top deck is shared by the Hart, Osprey, Audax and Hardy. Looking at the rarer Hartbees, despite the rear cockpit windscreen and fairing and sloping gun ring, I think this shares the lower rear deck of the Australian Demon and by having Hind bombing equipment. The Hind Trainer does not have the lesser wing sweep of the Hart trainer.

John

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There is really very little difference in the basic airframes of all the two seat Hawker Hart derivatives. With the exception of the Osprey (folding wings and larger fin/rudder), Hector (top wing and engine and struts), the Hart Trainer (top wing sweep) and Demon (lowered rear decking and Stbd extra gun) All the others have minor variations of panel lines, crew decking, wheels, exhausts and equipment. I intend to put on only the most important panel lines so that minor variations can be added by the modeller.

The high ring top deck is shared by the Hart, Osprey, Audax and Hardy. Looking at the rarer Hartbees, despite the rear cockpit windscreen and fairing and sloping gun ring, I think this shares the lower rear deck of the Australian Demon and by having Hind bombing equipment. The Hind Trainer does not have the lesser wing sweep of the Hart trainer.

John

Hi John,

Have you had any thoughts on producing the necessary conversion parts for the Osprey also, I have both one of your earlier vac-form Demon kits as well as your new Demon kit that I purchased from you recently.

In fact I have already started the vac-form kit with the aim of converting it into an Osprey, I started it a few years ago but it has lain dormant for quite some time, I recently dug it out of the stash when I started my Nimrod conversion, and have found a lot more reference material than I had originally, but ideally I'd like to do a float equipped version and I'm not quite sure where to start with those.

Cheers

Ant

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Hi Ant

I'd like to say yes but I always have so much on. I have thought about doing a set of vac floats for the Osprey. The floats from the re-issued Lindberg Supermarine S.6B are a good substitute if you can find one. I can supply a set of seconds (Demon) wings which are easily modified for the Osprey. The Vac Hart fuselage has the right height rear deck.

John

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Hi John,

Thanks for the info, as always you are a mine of totally useful information :worthy:

I may well take you up on the seconds wings, I presume they would be from the injection moulded kit? I'll PM you later.

Happy modelling

Ant

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  • 1 month later...

My Demon is correct in that the rear deck is lower than the Hind which is 3" higher than the Demon. I used a Hawker drawing for my fuselage. It was a discussion on this forum with Graham Boak which made me overlay some Hawker based drawings on the light board which showed up the differences between the top decks. However I have finished a new Hind fuselage pattern with alternative Audax/Hart/Hind/trainer pilot/gunner positions and I hope to have that for Telford. I just need to make the moulds. If you fair in the stbd gun trough and raise the rear decking by a scale 3" It can be modified. The wheels and exhausts are in the kit.

John

Edited

John

I was playing with the idea of converting the 1/32 Silver Wings Demon to a Hind and had noted most of the changes but had not realised about the rear decking height difference until I read this thread. I got pencil and paper out and if my workings are correct the height needs raised by a scale 2.29mm in 1/32 (smaller in 1/48). What are the thoughts on how noticeable it might be to leave that alone, especially in 1/32? I fear it may be a lot of work for not much gain however looking at 2mm on the cutting board edge marker it suddenly seems a lot bigger than it did in my mind!

JohnT

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If I were going to mod the 1/32 resin kit I think i'd glue tapered plasticard stringers onto some of the existing stringer positions and fill in with Milliput and while it's still wet rub down with a wet cloth which will give you the very subtle fabric faceting and sag.

Graham, no I hadn't really thought about it as I haven't got any of their kits to hand.

John

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If I were going to mod the 1/32 resin kit I think i'd glue tapered plasticard stringers onto some of the existing stringer positions and fill in with Milliput and while it's still wet rub down with a wet cloth which will give you the very subtle fabric faceting and

John

.

Thanks John

I will try that

I am hoping to do their Hart and a Hind both in pre war 603 Sqn City of Edinburgh markings as well as the Gladiator

Now if only someone would do a 1/32 Wapiti? Anyone?

JohnT

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John: I'd be happy to send you examples if I thought you were interested! However, I'd be quite happy to have a correct Demon fuselage (or three) that I could then fettle to fit whichever set of wings etc I fancied to try. The thought of having to do one Demon fuselage to fit the Airfix, one the AZ and yet another the Avis/Amodel doesn't seem a good business idea.

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  • 4 weeks later...

However I have finished a new Hind fuselage pattern with alternative Audax/Hart/Hind/trainer pilot/gunner positions and I hope to have that for Telford.

John - do you think that you might have the Hart/Audax kits at Telford?

It will be a major factor when I decide whether or not to come to the show!

Martin

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Bizarre! I've just sent you an email, John, on this and another item.

I intend to build a Hind/Hart in 501 Squadron markings. If these markings don't figure in your plans for your kit (and I therefore have to create my own), would you be prepared to sell the kit without decals?

Nick

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  • 5 weeks later...

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