28ZComeback Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 I am interested in the Hawker Hart family, and want to build a Hawker Hind in 1/48 scale. The Hawker Demon appears to be the only kit close enough to the Hind for a conversion--and so I am gathering photos and plans. Before I go further, I was wondering if anyone has attempted this conversion, and also, can it be done without a major cutting and sanding of the airframe? Externally, the Hind and Demon appear similar in outline. Thank you for any guidance and/or suggestions for reference material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learstang Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 It should be a fairly easy conversion. The main difference, I believe, was that the Demon featured fixed guns on both sides, whereas the Hind had one only on the port side, I believe. Also, early Demons had the tail skid, whereas all Hinds had the tail wheel. John Aero, who actually created the kit, will hopefully be along to fill you in on all the minor differences. As far as reference materials go, the Mushroom Publications book on the Hart Family appears to be a good one (I have it). Good luck on the conversion - I'm a big fan of the Hart Family also! Regards, Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don McIntyre Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Another that would seem a natural for the "new" Airfix. A 1/48 Airfix kit would prompt me to lift my self-imposed ban on purchasing any more biplane kits! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Check the exhausts. Many Hinds had the ones with the odd "rams horn" appearance. The Hind will also have the sliding ventral panel for bomb-aiming, which I suspect is absent on the Demon. Demons also have a lowered rear fuselage top, but I don't think that this was realised when John did his 1/48th kit, which suits you for your conversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Kunac-Tabinor Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 The Aeroclub 1/48th model has the Rams horn exhausts, and also the different size wheels too. You'll need some bomb carriers for under the wings though (would those from a Tamiya Swordfish do?) I've got a second Demon in the stash, planned as a turret one. If this is of use, here's the link to my first Demon build http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234917056-hawker-demon-finished-pics-in-rfi/ Cheers Jonners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonlanceHR Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Err... doesn't the fuselage back need to be raised? IIRC I believe there was a thread by John Adams that the Demon did have a lower back that the Hind, so it was not just a matter of different size wheels and exhausts. Vedran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWFK10 Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 The Hind had small windows in the fuselage below the pilot's cockpit, just above the lower wing, to let light into the bomb aiming position. I don't believe they were present on RAF Demons, though they were on Australian ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Aero Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 My Demon is correct in that the rear deck is lower than the Hind which is 3" higher than the Demon. I used a Hawker drawing for my fuselage. It was a discussion on this forum with Graham Boak which made me overlay some Hawker based drawings on the light board which showed up the differences between the top decks. However I have finished a new Hind fuselage pattern with alternative Audax/Hart/Hind/trainer pilot/gunner positions and I hope to have that for Telford. I just need to make the moulds. If you fair in the stbd gun trough and raise the rear decking by a scale 3" It can be modified. The wheels and exhausts are in the kit. John Edited 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don McIntyre Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Great news, John! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Cornes Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Looks like I've discovered an interest in interwar aircraft at just the right time!! Lets hope all the chips fall properly to allow John to have a sackful by November! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welkin Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) I already have a Demon, plus a second one to be made into a Hind, although the heads-up about raising the rear deck is very useful. Nevertheless . . . I would definitely want a Hart and an Audax! P.S. How difficult would it be to get a Hardy from any of the above? Edited July 28, 2015 by Welkin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Aero Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 There is really very little difference in the basic airframes of all the two seat Hawker Hart derivatives. With the exception of the Osprey (folding wings and larger fin/rudder), Hector (top wing and engine and struts), the Hart Trainer (top wing sweep) and Demon (lowered rear decking and Stbd extra gun) All the others have minor variations of panel lines, crew decking, wheels, exhausts and equipment. I intend to put on only the most important panel lines so that minor variations can be added by the modeller. The high ring top deck is shared by the Hart, Osprey, Audax and Hardy. Looking at the rarer Hartbees, despite the rear cockpit windscreen and fairing and sloping gun ring, I think this shares the lower rear deck of the Australian Demon and by having Hind bombing equipment. The Hind Trainer does not have the lesser wing sweep of the Hart trainer. John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntPhillips Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 There is really very little difference in the basic airframes of all the two seat Hawker Hart derivatives. With the exception of the Osprey (folding wings and larger fin/rudder), Hector (top wing and engine and struts), the Hart Trainer (top wing sweep) and Demon (lowered rear decking and Stbd extra gun) All the others have minor variations of panel lines, crew decking, wheels, exhausts and equipment. I intend to put on only the most important panel lines so that minor variations can be added by the modeller. The high ring top deck is shared by the Hart, Osprey, Audax and Hardy. Looking at the rarer Hartbees, despite the rear cockpit windscreen and fairing and sloping gun ring, I think this shares the lower rear deck of the Australian Demon and by having Hind bombing equipment. The Hind Trainer does not have the lesser wing sweep of the Hart trainer. John Hi John, Have you had any thoughts on producing the necessary conversion parts for the Osprey also, I have both one of your earlier vac-form Demon kits as well as your new Demon kit that I purchased from you recently. In fact I have already started the vac-form kit with the aim of converting it into an Osprey, I started it a few years ago but it has lain dormant for quite some time, I recently dug it out of the stash when I started my Nimrod conversion, and have found a lot more reference material than I had originally, but ideally I'd like to do a float equipped version and I'm not quite sure where to start with those. Cheers Ant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Aero Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Hi Ant I'd like to say yes but I always have so much on. I have thought about doing a set of vac floats for the Osprey. The floats from the re-issued Lindberg Supermarine S.6B are a good substitute if you can find one. I can supply a set of seconds (Demon) wings which are easily modified for the Osprey. The Vac Hart fuselage has the right height rear deck. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntPhillips Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Hi John, Thanks for the info, as always you are a mine of totally useful information I may well take you up on the seconds wings, I presume they would be from the injection moulded kit? I'll PM you later. Happy modelling Ant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnT Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 My Demon is correct in that the rear deck is lower than the Hind which is 3" higher than the Demon. I used a Hawker drawing for my fuselage. It was a discussion on this forum with Graham Boak which made me overlay some Hawker based drawings on the light board which showed up the differences between the top decks. However I have finished a new Hind fuselage pattern with alternative Audax/Hart/Hind/trainer pilot/gunner positions and I hope to have that for Telford. I just need to make the moulds. If you fair in the stbd gun trough and raise the rear decking by a scale 3" It can be modified. The wheels and exhausts are in the kit. John Edited John I was playing with the idea of converting the 1/32 Silver Wings Demon to a Hind and had noted most of the changes but had not realised about the rear decking height difference until I read this thread. I got pencil and paper out and if my workings are correct the height needs raised by a scale 2.29mm in 1/32 (smaller in 1/48). What are the thoughts on how noticeable it might be to leave that alone, especially in 1/32? I fear it may be a lot of work for not much gain however looking at 2mm on the cutting board edge marker it suddenly seems a lot bigger than it did in my mind! JohnT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 John, have you considered doing 1/72 low-back Demon fuselages as conversions parts for the Airfix and/or AZ kits? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Aero Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 If I were going to mod the 1/32 resin kit I think i'd glue tapered plasticard stringers onto some of the existing stringer positions and fill in with Milliput and while it's still wet rub down with a wet cloth which will give you the very subtle fabric faceting and sag. Graham, no I hadn't really thought about it as I haven't got any of their kits to hand. John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnT Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 If I were going to mod the 1/32 resin kit I think i'd glue tapered plasticard stringers onto some of the existing stringer positions and fill in with Milliput and while it's still wet rub down with a wet cloth which will give you the very subtle fabric faceting and John . Thanks John I will try that I am hoping to do their Hart and a Hind both in pre war 603 Sqn City of Edinburgh markings as well as the Gladiator Now if only someone would do a 1/32 Wapiti? Anyone? JohnT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 John: I'd be happy to send you examples if I thought you were interested! However, I'd be quite happy to have a correct Demon fuselage (or three) that I could then fettle to fit whichever set of wings etc I fancied to try. The thought of having to do one Demon fuselage to fit the Airfix, one the AZ and yet another the Avis/Amodel doesn't seem a good business idea. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welkin Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 However I have finished a new Hind fuselage pattern with alternative Audax/Hart/Hind/trainer pilot/gunner positions and I hope to have that for Telford. John - do you think that you might have the Hart/Audax kits at Telford? It will be a major factor when I decide whether or not to come to the show! Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Aero Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Martin Probably not, as I will not have any decals done for them in time. I might have some production plastic to show. I have a lot of other unrelated things going on in the background so time is my problem. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Belbin Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Bizarre! I've just sent you an email, John, on this and another item. I intend to build a Hind/Hart in 501 Squadron markings. If these markings don't figure in your plans for your kit (and I therefore have to create my own), would you be prepared to sell the kit without decals? Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welkin Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Hi John Thanks for responding so quickly - hopefully they will be available at some time, to supplement my Demon and Hind. They are both great kits! Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wombat200 Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Hi John Aero, a touch off-topic, but are your Demon kits available anywhere in Australia? I'm very keen to build a 1/48 RAAF one..... Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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