Westland P.12 Beach Strafer

[georgeusa]

I have finished my group builds in the P-38 and Sci-Fi, albeit about a week after each was due. (Planning and execution is everything!) I have decided to do something different. I have seen many fine people with far better building skills than I tackle modifications of kits and turn out breath taking models. I am still trying to just become adequate at making a kit look like a decent model out of the box. But, I figure if I ever want to expand my horizons, I need to get outside of my comfort zone and do something different. So, here is my hair-brained scheme. I have the 1/48 Hawk Lysander kit that was initially released in 1968.

And from one of my strange aircraft reference books I have this wonderfully odd picture.

That there is a Westland P.12. It is a modified Lysander that was to be used to strafe beaches and landing craft should the Nazi invasion occur. Now, for some reason, I think I can convert this Hawk kit to a P-12 and scratch all the conversion parts. Pretty optimistic huh? All it is going to take is a new rear fuselage, two baby wings at the rear, 2 rudders and a gun turret. How hard can that be? I guess I will find out.

The kit is very simplistic, with a sparse interior. There are not many parts.

Might as well plunge in before I lose my nerve. I don’t really have a great plan of how to do this, so most of the conversion will be worked out about 5 minutes before I start building it. I choose as my first step to build the wheels. Not a really good reason why the wheels, but it is as good a place to start as any.

Each lower wheel spat is built.

And some work will have to be done on them. First, at the front of each spat I will have to drill a hole and construct some sort of search light. But before I do that, I need to eliminate the attachment points for the mini-wings that fit on the spats and where the 20 lb. bombs go.

On the first spat, I get a little too enthused with the sanding process and break through the plastic just a smidgeon.

Milliput will have to come to the rescue. On the other spat, I am a bit more careful.

While the glue and milliput dry on the wheel spats, I get the fuselage halves ready to glue. There are a couple of injection towers to eliminate.

Once the injection towers are sorted a one piece section that will house the pilot and observer seats is placed in the starboard fuselage half and the port half is joined to it.

I thought it might be easier for me to glue the fuselage halves together and then construct the new rear fuselage than to try and do a right half and left half modification. While the fuselage dries prior to me hacking on it, I construct the wings and attach them to a center canopy section

Next up I tackle a very simple but quite nice little engine.

By this time, the fuselage is dry enough to try to figure out where to cut it in two. After studying the very limited amount of photos for this plane, it looks like the modified fuselage section was added where the rear gunner would sit in a regular Lysander. Taking my marker, I place where the cut should be . . .

And then hack away with my saw and I am now committed to this project.

From looking at photos, the rear fuselage plug looks to be a one size portion with the same shape from the canopy back to the gun turret. In my simple head, I think a one size internal support can be duplicated and then some plasticard will be used to skin around the supports. Sounds easy-peasy in my head. Now let’s see how reality works. I take some light plasticard stock and trace the outline of the fuselage section that I have left. I cut that out and then make a half plug.

This half plug is then traced on some paper card stock so I have a somewhat symmetrical internal support. The card stock pattern is then checked against the fuselage to see if I am somewhat close.

Using the card stock pattern, I cut out 4 plasticard supports, put them together and then sand them to match each other. I then tape them together as I have the slightly mad idea that four pieces of wire could be used to provide stable support system so that skinning the internal structure won’t be too much of a headache.

Holes are drilled and wire is inserted.

This might work. First problem though is the skin on the Lysander is not smooth. I have to match a rib pattern. RATS!!! Now how it that going to work. The only thing I can come up with is to score one side of the plasticard with some sort of semi sharp object so the opposite side looks like the Lysander skin. I experiment with different knives and scalpel blades and noting is coming close. I then look at my trusty screwdriver that I use to open Humbrol tins of paint and hmmmmm. . . .

I get these results

I think if I make the scores closer together this will work. My next step is to work out how long the rear section is to be and then make a bunch of scores with the same pressure. What could possibly go wrong with this plan? But, it is late and my hands are not the most steady right now. So I will end here and maybe go look at the 1/72 stash to find some donor wings for the rear fin assembly. As always, all comments are welcome.

[AdrianMF]

I think if you use thin plastic card, put it on something a bit yielding like a magazine and then draw on the reverse side with a biro and a ruler you will end up with a nice effect. It will even curl up a bit which will help you wrap it round. Don't use plastic cement to stick it on as it will melt the thin plastic, use superglue or expoxy.

Hope this helps!

Oh and an interesting conversion - looking forward to more!!

Regards,

Adrian

[Hamden]

A very interesting project I will follow this with interest

Wishing you luck and am sure you will overcome all the problems as they occur!

Roger

[georgeusa]

I think if you use thin plastic card, put it on something a bit yielding like a magazine and then draw on the reverse side with a biro and a ruler you will end up with a nice effect. It will even curl up a bit which will help you wrap it round. Don't use plastic cement to stick it on as it will melt the thin plastic, use superglue or expoxy.

Hope this helps!

Oh and an interesting conversion - looking forward to more!!

Regards,

Adrian

Thanks for the advice about using super glue. I probably would have used plastic cement at first and been very sad.

[hendie]

hey George, where ya been huh ? We missed your contributions over the last few months.

You won't believe this but I was looking at the Hawk Lysander myself over the last few weeks and considered doing the very aircraft you are doing now !

Good luck with the build and I'll be watching closely

[rotorheadtx]

Here's another thread on faking fabric surface via plasticard and ball-point:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/67757-making-wings-for-wwi-aircraft-advice-needed/

[hendie]

George - for the skinning of the rear fuselage - bear with me on this - I think this sounds more difficult than it would be in practice.....

If you have a start (cockpit) and end profile (tail) in styrene - I think I'd be tempted to use small diameter wire rod to form the stringers - simply attach as many as needed at the appropriate distances around your formers. Once that is complete you could use tissue paper draped over the wires. I think that would give you a very realistic effect.

I'm sure I came across a thread that used that method in the last week or so while I was "researching" the possibility of me committing to a Lysander - if I can find it again, I'll post a link

[georgeusa]

hey George, where ya been huh ? We missed your contributions over the last few months.

You won't believe this but I was looking at the Hawk Lysander myself over the last few weeks and considered doing the very aircraft you are doing now !

Good luck with the build and I'll be watching closely

Great minds think alike. Life has sorta been kicking my behind and haven't really had time to do much fun. I will be concentrating on catching up with builds and the like this week. I hope I can scratch at least half as well as you. You always make it look so easy.

[georgeusa]

Here's another thread on faking fabric surface via plasticard and ball-point:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/67757-making-wings-for-wwi-aircraft-advice-needed/

Thanks for the link. I can use all the help I can get as I am just building this by the seat of my pants and on the fly. I guess I really should plan it more, NAHHHH.

[georgeusa]

George - for the skinning of the rear fuselage - bear with me on this - I think this sounds more difficult than it would be in practice.....

If you have a start (cockpit) and end profile (tail) in styrene - I think I'd be tempted to use small diameter wire rod to form the stringers - simply attach as many as needed at the appropriate distances around your formers. Once that is complete you could use tissue paper draped over the wires. I think that would give you a very realistic effect.

I'm sure I came across a thread that used that method in the last week or so while I was "researching" the possibility of me committing to a Lysander - if I can find it again, I'll post a link

I am not using the wire for anything other than to stabilize the rib structures (Well not really ribs as they will remain solid plastic, so maybe bulkheads?) I think I have some very thin plasticard, that once scored (and I think the scoring will also add some strength), I will just be able to wrap around the bulkheads. It sounds simple and workable. I will see later today. First I have to score about 25 to 30 lines in a symmetrical fashion. For the turret, I was contemplating using a round pencil sharpener as a basis. Need to go look at the office supplies for that.

[AdrianMF]

For the turret you could take a look at the packaging for pens and sharpies where they are sold in a vac form bubble on a card backing. If you get two of the right diameter you could stick them back to back...

Regards,

Adrian

[Winenut]

Its one of the oddest Lysanders without a doubt.

Gun turret, twin tail....whoa!

But it really existed and it's a great piece to represent.

Good luck ....what a cracking subject

cheers!

[DaveCromie]

Good luck with this! It could be the most ambitious conversion I have seen for a LONG time, can't wait to see where this goes...... :Tasty: :Tasty:

DC

[mackem01]

Best of luck. Looking forward to seeing you finish this - your a braver man than me!

Great subject.

[Ace From Outer Space]

Excellent choice of subject George. Good luck, I'll be following this thread with interest,

Cheers

Viv

[Darby]

Your bravery will not go unrewarded.

[Spookytooth]

Totally nuts you know, there again, its a British plane.

I will follow this one just out of interest.

Far to hard a build for me to attempt.

Simon.

[Old foxtrot]

I'm sure Arba did a conversion kit for this, if I remember I picked it up from ED models. Must still be in the loft at my parents as I never built it.

[Rob G]

Airmodel do a rather nice vac conversion for this, and the chap who runs it is great to deal with. I ordered the P.12 and a number of other things from him last year (because it made sense re postage) - they arrived safely and quickly, and look pretty good too.

http://www.airmodel.de/product_info.php?info=p171_westland-p-12-tandem--wing--lysander.html

[georgeusa]

Your bravery will not go unrewarded.

Unfortunately, I am more of a no good deed goes unpunished kind of believer!

[georgeusa]

I'm sure Arba did a conversion kit for this, if I remember I picked it up from ED models. Must still be in the loft at my parents as I never built it.

Airmodel do a rather nice vac conversion for this, and the chap who runs it is great to deal with. I ordered the P.12 and a number of other things from him last year (because it made sense re postage) - they arrived safely and quickly, and look pretty good too.

http://www.airmodel.de/product_info.php?info=p171_westland-p-12-tandem--wing--lysander.html

When I was researching this plane, I came across some builds on Modeling Madness and another site I can't remember and both builds used a conversion set. But, both builds were 1/72 and this is 1/48. I do not believe there is a 1/48 conversion set. And, since I'm already committed to attempting to scratch this out, I guess I should see how much I can muck this up!

[hendie]

go for it ! you know you can do it !

[Rob G]

When I was researching this plane, I came across some builds on Modeling Madness and another site I can't remember and both builds used a conversion set. But, both builds were 1/72 and this is 1/48. I do not believe there is a 1/48 conversion set. And, since I'm already committed to attempting to scratch this out, I guess I should see how much I can muck this up!

My apologies George, I didn't even notice that it was 48th - in my defence, I've been following Stew's Matchbox Lysander build and well... you know what they say about assumptions.

It's a pretty simple conversion though, so it should be within your capabilities; the biggest issue will be the rear turret, assuming that you're going for the 'operational' version as opposed to the prototype. I'll follow along, partly from interest, partly from penance.

[louiex2]

Just caught up with this build- looks like you're on the right track.

[moaning dolphin]

This looks like another nice barmy project to follow, certainly is a strange looking fellow - the kit I am on about! I did ponder on whether it would be easier to get a 1:48 lancaster and just lop the back end off that and stick that on? Thats what the real thing looks like lol.

Will be following this one for sure!

Bob